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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by LedZeppelin View Post
    Not disagreeing, my point was just that meat isnt the boogie man that people think and vegetables and fruits arent the saviors
    they could be. both the boogie man AND the savior. depending on a person. some people need meat to get adequate nutrition. others are better off avoiding it. different people may benefit or suffer from different vegetables or fruits depending on their individual situation.

    that is NOT accounting for production costs of meat, etc (and I say this as an omnivore. just cause I eat meat, doesn't make me blind to the drawbacks of production of said meat.)

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorensen View Post
    No I'll just be hungry and end up at taco bell
    That's....not a counter argument to eating less and more healthy?

    And everybody knows White Castle>>>Taco Bell when you're starving at 3am

  3. #403
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorensen View Post
    Yeah fruits and veggies are pretty good.
    Too bad junk food tastes so much better...unless one manages to cut it out of the diet. It is a long...and hard process. Took me years. But it feels good to be free off it. Well...minus the part where friends and family still look at you like you are an alien

    Which I guess I technically am. But hey...solved my weight issues. Listening to common sense. Cook my own meals just from fresh ingredients and vegetables. The only "processed" foods are canned beans, tomatoes or chickpeas for the last 5 years....and even those you can soak and cook yourself if you want.

  4. #404
    Bloodsail Admiral Sorensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    So how does it work...on whatever point I made that you dispute? No long explanation needed. Just toss me a link. I love to be educated.

    Until then..we cook our meat...our bone structures weaken. Our teeth get fucked and we generally rely more and more on technical assistance and should our civilised world break down with our reliance on all the technology ...I truly believe we will be utterly fucked.
    It doesn't move on a timescale that fast.

    There are many social things humans do that our bodies are exactly adapted to, and things we are adapted to doing that we don't anymore but if those individuals reproduce we still keep those traits.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    That's....not a counter argument to eating less and more healthy?

    And everybody knows White Castle>>>Taco Bell when you're starving at 3am
    But I don't have white castle here
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  5. #405
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorensen View Post
    It doesn't move on a timescale that fast.
    A timescale how fast? I mean...yeah...in the last 100 years even, humans and their technology evolved at a frightening speed. But the need to use your agility, speed...all that? I argue these things have been deteriorating ever since we stopped being mostly a nomad race, settled down, grew crops and had livestock...like...10 000 years ago? Quite some time IMHO.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post

    To prove my above point...here is an example. How do you know EXACTLY how much calories you burn and consume? And even if you did...do you seriously think you lose weight if you consume 2400 calories and burn 2401? Even if you consume 2400 calories and burn 3000...if those 2400 calories consumed are from litres of Coca Cola and Pizza it will do you any good?

    Oh wait...I hear you scream. "This is where common sense comes in".

    Oh...if it is about common sense..why are we dabating weight loss on MMO-C? If you or anyone has "common sense" you wouldn't be so fat as to ask how to lose weight ^^
    Through working out your basal metabolic rate.

    Technically, yes you would lose weight if that was the case, if youre in a safe calorific deficit and you aren't fucking your insulin levels, you'll lose weight with a deficit. Your body will get to an equilibrium and you'll have to eat less and less, or consume fewer and fewer calories to maintain.

    Calories are calories, it doesn't matter where they're from. 1 calorie from cola is the same as from a pea. What matters is how you have it. 2400 calories all at once is awful for you, your body will use what it can, spike insulin and turn the rest of that excess to fat. 2400 over a day, you won't get that happening nearly as aggressively.

    the eat less and exercise more crowd are right, its calories in vs calories out - the important thing they're missing is calories in slowly > calories out.
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  7. #407
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willtron View Post
    Through working out your basal metabolic rate.

    Technically, yes you would lose weight if that was the case, if youre in a safe calorific deficit and you aren't fucking your insulin levels, you'll lose weight with a deficit. Your body will get to an equilibrium and you'll have to eat less and less, or consume fewer and fewer calories to maintain.

    Calories are calories, it doesn't matter where they're from. 1 calorie from cola is the same as from a pea. What matters is how you have it. 2400 calories all at once is awful for you, your body will use what it can, spike insulin and turn the rest of that excess to fat. 2400 over a day, you won't get that happening nearly as aggressively.

    the eat less and exercise more crowd are right, its calories in vs calories out - the important thing they're missing is calories in slowly > calories out.
    .....you just deteriorate in heath I guess....if that is all that you look for.

    Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcMBm-UVdII - I mean...there are things like hormones and people gaining weight through the accumulation of water etc because they are taking medications.

    I guess what I want to say that...maybe a calorie is a calorie for a heathy person...in reality it is not

    It is not when your 2000 calorie intake comes from a bag of crisps and 2 litres of Coca Cola per day vs tons of vegetables, legumes or fruit.. Not in the long run

    But yeah...if you truly want to boil this down to a "calorie in vs calorie out" debate? You are totally right. Nobody came out of a concentration camp chubbier than they went in.

    Disgustingly tasteless....but IMHO needed to put the whole "just eat less" shit into perspective.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorensen View Post



    But I don't have white castle here
    Go run to the nearest one then. That'll help you lose weight for sure.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    .....you just deteriorate in heath I guess....if that is all that you look for.

    Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcMBm-UVdII - I mean...there are things like hormones and people gaining weight through the accumulation of water etc because they are taking medications.

    I guess what I want to say that...maybe a calorie is a calorie for a heathy person...in reality it is not

    It is not when your 2000 calorie intake comes from a bag of crisps and 2 litres of Coca Cola per day vs tons of vegetables, legumes or fruit.. Not in the long run

    But yeah...if you truly want to boil this down to a "calorie in vs calorie out" debate? You are totally right. Nobody came out of a concentration camp chubbier than they went in.

    Disgustingly tasteless....but IMHO needed to put the whole "just eat less" shit into perspective.
    I... actualy gotta agree with you there, more or less.

    that said... to the person you replied to - there are people who eat one meal a day and prefer it that way. I personaly could never live like that, for me to function best, I need to eat small meals every few hours. but there are people who are happy and healthy that way, so who am I to tell them that they are doing it wrong when its obviously working for them? and there are people who would be absolutely miserable eating the way that I do. my meals would be way too slow for them, not nearly enough volume and despite in theory getting enough calories, they would go around fighting a losing battle with ghrelin.

    also, funny story. I love legumes. LOVE THEM. well taste and texture anyways. my body really doesn't like them though. I can have them in moderation with supplements to aid in digestion, but there is a limit to how many I can consume before my body goes into rebellion and they end up being unhealthy for me. so... there is that.

    that said - and I stress its not for everyone, because everyone is different and one person's trigger food is another person's "yeah, I CAN have just one and be content", but if something is not your trigger food, there is nothing wrong with having treats that are not optimized for health. in moderation. some people can eat 100% clean (whatever that means) and other people do better when they can have their treats on occasion. the one uniting thing about all these individual choices is - sustainability. finding a way of healthier for you eating that you can sustain long term.

    P.S. I know my tastes are different from those of many people, in part becasue I grew up on home cooked meals, so a lot of American takeout etc tastes absolutely awful to me - too salty, or too sweet, definitely too rich. but omg, white castle is a particular brand of awful. i honestly imagine that this is what cheapest generic cat food tastes like. possibly worse. (I had it once and never again /shudder).

  10. #410
    I don't tend to look at calories so much as I look at carbs.

  11. #411
    As much as you can, just buy whole foods and then cook them yourself. If instead of buying a burger & fries, you cook something similar, there is a good chance what you'll be eating will be healthier. Sometimes less expensive in terms of money as well. If you prepare and cook a larger amount so that you can get several meals out of it, you may offset the time needed to cook.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    Cardio as in running is also bad for you. Lift weights, bike, and swim. better for your heart and for your bones.
    Why are you complicating things?

    Just grab a bike then.

    - - - Updated - - -

    First of all I'm not fat.

    I did sports all my life. Me and my wife actually do trips on our bicicles on vacations and run up to 200km if needed.

    We can even stop for a beer and keep going.

    When people start to find stupid excuses to lose weight, just means they were fat all their lifes. And are to lazy to start.

    I can eat all the crap I want without worrying of getting fat.

    Guys, just leave the couch for a bit. Walk around your house, find the socks... You know... Move your ass.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    .....you just deteriorate in heath I guess....if that is all that you look for.

    Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcMBm-UVdII - I mean...there are things like hormones and people gaining weight through the accumulation of water etc because they are taking medications.

    I guess what I want to say that...maybe a calorie is a calorie for a heathy person...in reality it is not

    It is not when your 2000 calorie intake comes from a bag of crisps and 2 litres of Coca Cola per day vs tons of vegetables, legumes or fruit.. Not in the long run

    But yeah...if you truly want to boil this down to a "calorie in vs calorie out" debate? You are totally right. Nobody came out of a concentration camp chubbier than they went in.

    Disgustingly tasteless....but IMHO needed to put the whole "just eat less" shit into perspective.
    There are always going to be exceptions, but the majority of fat people are lazy and are self afflicting. Saying "oh it's meds" is a lazy argument imo.

    the whole cola thing is down to nutrition, not calories. Thats a different point.

    Calories v nutritional content is why having a balanced diet matters. having the same calories in junk food vs healthy food won't make a much difference to losing weight other than hunger and portion size. To your general nutrition and state of health, it'll have a massive difference.
    Last edited by willtron; 2020-11-21 at 03:20 PM.
    1) Load the amount of weight I would deadlift onto the bench
    2) Unrack
    3) Crank out 15 reps
    4) Be ashamed of constantly skipping leg day

  14. #414
    The Lightbringer Strawberry's Avatar
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    I recently went from 74kg (163lbs) to 63-64kg (139-141lbs).
    That's not a lot if you look at the kgs, but that was some 15% of my weight, especially since I was skinny before I lost the weight (I'm 174cm tall, 5'7").

    This might not work for everyone, but I think it's effective.
    Before I used to eat anything, but mostly stuff like small pizzas and a ton of meat and potatoes.
    I replaced pizzas with 3 boiled eggs, some full corn bread, caviar and tomatoes/cucumber/paprika. When it comes to meat and potatoes, I halved that and started baking the potatoes in the oven.
    And did some small workout at home, once or twice per week, plus tennis with dad also twice or so per week.

    When it comes to food, two major changes I did:
    1) changed the junk food to a more healthy one.
    2) stopped eating myself fully. I decided how much to eat and if it didn't feel enough, I'd take some natural nuts. Those fill you up very quickly.
    And a small change is that I started drinking protein powder once per day. I was skinny before and I wanted to lose fat, but not (too much) muscle.
    At work, 2 boiled eggs and rice cookies for breakfast and for lunch - 4 days I drink Huel, 1 day kebab or pizza. This leaves everyone hungry including me so I either eat those rice cookies as snacks or buy chocolate.

    And it worked. I lost 10kgs but actually built chest and biceps muscles. Most of the weight lost was in my face, legs, and belly, thanks to workouts on my arms and upper body.
    And I still eat chocolate, cake and shit lol, I'm not giving that up.
    Last edited by Strawberry; 2020-11-22 at 11:24 PM.

  15. #415
    Personally, I've lost extra weight just by changing my diet which now consists mostly from vegetables, fruits, fish, cereals and other healthy products
    Last edited by Centeah; 2020-11-24 at 06:29 AM.

  16. #416
    Herald of the Titans Vorkreist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    its really not. what you put into your body absolutely matters, but so does how much of it. both too little and too much is not a good idea. now if you say counting calories for someone with Orthorexia is all wrong - yeah, it kind might be triggering for them. which is where portion control enters the picture.... which is still counting calories, but in a less obvious way.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I personaly am not, because I do not need to lose weight (not because of any body positivity, but becasue i'm already at a normal healthy weight and losing weight is literally going to be unhealthy for me. being underweight is in some ways worse then being overweight. but that's neither here nor there)

    however. even for a person who does need to lose weight - losing it too quickly is BAD for their health. as bad as staying overweight. the whole point of weight loss for health is to do it in a HEALTHY way. and THAT.. varies from person to person. (yes yes the end goal is calorie deficit, HOW you achieve that calorie deficit is what varies)

    Most people have issues with losing weight. Its the most generalized problem. Stop talking like "losing weight is dangerous" bs. There is no danger in following a fucking diet or exercising. We are not pro fighters that try to lose 30 pounds in a week by dehydration.

  17. #417
    You lose it by believing in yourself and remembering that it will be sooooo worth it in the end when you are feeling that it is getting too hard!

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    Most people have issues with losing weight. Its the most generalized problem. Stop talking like "losing weight is dangerous" bs. There is no danger in following a fucking diet or exercising. We are not pro fighters that try to lose 30 pounds in a week by dehydration.
    losing weight TOO FAST. is dangerous. losing weight when you are already at a normal weight - is dangerous.

    please. read what I said, actualy read it, instead of seeing one or two words and filling in the rest.

    most people have issues with losing weight for several reasons. 1. they are not accounting for all the calories they are consuming. 2. they are pushing too hard, too fast, cannot sustain it -and relapse even worse than where they started and/or from the start consider a diet something you do temporarily and then go back to a lifestyle that got them into a condition requiring weight loss... and gain it all back. 3. have underlying conditions that stall their weight loss - could be psychological, could be physiological and could be both.

    but... regardless of the issue - losing weight TOO FAST is dangerous. going on a starvation diet is dangerous. going on an exercise program that your body cannot manage and getting injured as a result? IS DANGEROUS.

    I am NOT saying that one shouldn't lose weight, ever. I'm saying that its a case to case basis as to how and doing the wrong thing can do more harm then good.

  19. #419
    Find a sport that you like, you'll feel even better as your condition improves.
    The point is to make weight loss functional, not just about mildly esoteric bullshit like beauty, feelings and even health.

    A bit like in WoW: "Doing this makes me able to do more by flying/doing more damage/getting invited easier/etc., so i will do it a lot!"; the precondition for sports is the same as in WoW: find something you enjoy doing, then find a reason to do it a lot and get healthy for it.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Respect all, submit to none.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by willtron View Post
    There are always going to be exceptions, but the majority of fat people are lazy and are self afflicting. Saying "oh it's meds" is a lazy argument imo.
    No offense meant, but I've got to strongly disagree with you there, mate. First of all, it depends on the medication. Some of them really saturates the liver. Second of all, I've lived it and am currently living it.

    I've always been 63-65ish kg, at 180cm. An active lifestyle, social sports. At 28, I got medication. Queue 4 years later and without changing my lifestyle but eating less(!) I was at 125 kg. That is definitely down to medication.

    On days where I didn't have to bike to uni (I bike or walk everywhere. It doesn't make sense owning a car here), or do sports with friends, I walked. And ate reasonably well.

    Since that March, I've been contact with a dietist. She advised me to change my diet to 1600 kcal per day. A month later, we realised I'd gained more weight, because the 1500 kcal I could manage to eat was way too much. We finally found the amount I needed to eat to maintain weight. Which was a 1000 kcal diet.
    My medication has destroyed my metabolic rate.

    Queue 20 months later and I've lost 28kg (as I gained 3kg on my dietist's first suggested diet), I am down to 100.5kg (180cm still!). From going to the gym up until pandemic hit and being on a 700 kcal diet per day.
    It is hell. It is a very tight margin to walk to survive and still have a deficit. A single apple cuts my deficiency down so much.

    I hope you don't have to live through it. But trust me, it's a different ball game, and I am by no means saying it is impossible, clearly, I am just saying that where you draw the line for lazy is way off.

    All the best.
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