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  1. #21
    Warchief Sigxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Blizzard already has a dozen starting zones meant to introduce new players, hence the term "starting zone", that is supposed to teach new players (and old) how to play each class, the game mechanics, and how questing works, but here they are re-inventing the wheel.
    Yeah, basically... Another problem with this new system, even if it ends up really good, is that it won't teach you about your -race-. The starting zones are supposed to give you an idea what your race's culture is like, how they behave, etc.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Hextor View Post
    Forcing people to level thru BfA is garbage.
    Why? It is one of the most streamlined questing experiences of any expac, there wont be any graphical disconnect and the story will lead the player right into Shadowlands.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    Yeah, basically... Another problem with this new system, even if it ends up really good, is that it won't teach you about your -race-. The starting zones are supposed to give you an idea what your race's culture is like, how they behave, etc.
    Which the starting zones used to do a pretty good job with. The Cata revamp messed with this though, and only half of them now give you any idea about what the culture is like. Most of them are just memes about Garrosh/Deathwing/pop culture references.
    /Catchphrase!

  4. #24
    Elemental Lord Kyphael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apepi1337 View Post
    I disagree. If you are brand new to the game its feels very disjointed and hard to follow. Most starting zones were designed 15 years ago and teach you nothing. Then you have to figure out where to go to get to tbc, wotlk, cata and so forth and the story just doesnt make sense. I havent leveled a new char in years and I just started one as a Worgen and it does not flow smoothly at all. I cant even imagine what its like for someone who has never played. This is a needed change for the game.
    The starting zones were all re-done in Cataclysm, which was what, 2010? And they were done very well, contrary to the mess most players had to deal with back in Vanilla. As a first time player, the Cataclysm and onward starting zones (mind you BC were also updated) is a very good introduction to the game, teaching you the fundamental basics of your class, race, and that race's culture. It tells you your role in the world, guides you where to go and what to do. It couldn't be easier. The only thing it doesn't do is introduce one to the concept of dungeons, but anyone can easily pick that up by learning about the game as they progress naturally, make friends, join groups, and guilds, then by level 15 they literally press a button to queue for dungeons and are zoned in. It's not rocket science. WoW is already stupid easy even for new players without this safety hat version of a generic starting zone.

  5. #25
    Warchief Sigxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dannihilate View Post
    Which the starting zones used to do a pretty good job with. The Cata revamp messed with this though, and only half of them now give you any idea about what the culture is like. Most of them are just memes about Garrosh/Deathwing/pop culture references.
    Oh absolutely. Remember when Redridge really gave you an idea that something is absolutely wrong as they ask you to get reinforcements from Elwynn, Westfall and Duskwoods? Because the Orcs were marching in and if Redridge falls, so will the rest.

    Aaand now it's just one huge Rambo thing. At least that's how I feel about it. He even mention's the legs of a person that you never bumps into but is a direct quote from the movie... x_x

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Dannihilate View Post
    Which the starting zones used to do a pretty good job with. The Cata revamp messed with this though, and only half of them now give you any idea about what the culture is like. Most of them are just memes about Garrosh/Deathwing/pop culture references.
    The actual starting zones, the ones from 1-10, still actually do that. The 10-20 also mostly do that. It turns into a major shit show with the 20+ zones and their stale memes.

    That being said I don't think the new zone is a bad idea. The idea about the race is pretty outdated and plays literally no role what-so-ever in the rest of the game and never has. No one reacts differently to you because you are from another race, tribe or whatever else you set during character creation. The only thing that sometimes matters is the faction and that's about it. Since Blizzard2020 is clearly not going to bother and revamp all the starting zones, the next best thing to get is actually one new zone that properly teaches newbies the basics and potentially hooks them to the kind of story the game has to offer; which again is not based on individual race at all in the context of your character.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
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  7. #27
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Blizzard already has a dozen starting zones meant to introduce new players, hence the term "starting zone", that is supposed to teach new players (and old) how to play each class, the game mechanics, and how questing works, but here they are re-inventing the wheel.
    because those zones are over a decade old... they need to be updated, they dont teach them the game mechanics and how questing works, it just drops them in.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hextor View Post
    Forcing people to level thru BfA is garbage.
    BFA questing is a million times better then TBC questing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    Will people be locked behind their choice of expansion for leveling? I love some Outlands locations to level in, but not wanna stay there for Shadowmoon Valley. I hope its not the case and we can go wherever we want like we do now.
    your FIRST TIME playing the game you have to do this new starting zone, and you are sent to BFA
    you CAN go to old zones but its not reccomended.

    after your first charecter, you can then choose whatever starting areas, and whatever leveling areas you want.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    Yeah, basically... Another problem with this new system, even if it ends up really good, is that it won't teach you about your -race-. The starting zones are supposed to give you an idea what your race's culture is like, how they behave, etc.
    except that havent for many many years, because you would level so quick you left it pretty early.

  8. #28
    Elemental Lord Kyphael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    because those zones are over a decade old... they need to be updated, they dont teach them the game mechanics and how questing works, it just drops them in.
    They're barely 10 years old, Cataclysm came out in like late 2010. I disagree, they do a very good job at teaching you about WoW. It literally tells you what to do one step at a time in that given zone, covers your race's lore, and everything you need to do starting out. It doesn't dump a truck full of information on you about everything, and it shouldn't. If you choose the blood elf race, you start out in Quel'telas, as a brand new blood elf defending Silvermoon and its interests. As you quest, you learn. They teach you about your racial, how to use your abilities, what to kill, where, and why. What else is necessary?

  9. #29
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    They're barely 10 years old, Cataclysm came out in like late 2010. I disagree, they do a very good job at teaching you about WoW. It literally tells you what to do one step at a time in that given zone, covers your race's lore, and everything you need to do starting out. It doesn't dump a truck full of information on you about everything, and it shouldn't. If you choose the blood elf race, you start out in Quel'telas, as a brand new blood elf defending Silvermoon and its interests. As you quest, you learn. They teach you about your racial, how to use your abilities, what to kill, where, and why. What else is necessary?
    "Barely 10 years old" sorry 9 years 4 months, that is totally so much better, its ONLY 9 years 4 months old.

    and no, it does not, if you could show me how it teaches you how to play your class, or the mechanics of the game that would be great.

    oh yeah i forgot the draenei and blood elf ones are even older, 14 years.

  10. #30
    Elemental Lord Kyphael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    "Barely 10 years old" sorry 9 years 4 months, that is totally so much better, its ONLY 9 years 4 months old.

    and no, it does not, if you could show me how it teaches you how to play your class, or the mechanics of the game that would be great.

    oh yeah i forgot the draenei and blood elf ones are even older, 14 years.
    Again, Blood Elf and Draenei were re-done with the Cataclysm. Have you played the starting zones recently? They literally tell you what to do. If you're a new human, it teaches you about Stormwind through in quests stories. The starting zones are designed to make the questing system easy. It literally explains and tells you what to do, that you must complete quests to get XP, etc. It is already stupid easy, even for newbies. I don't know what else you expect from it.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Again, Blood Elf and Draenei were re-done with the Cataclysm. Have you played the starting zones recently? They literally tell you what to do. If you're a new human, it teaches you about Stormwind through in quests stories. The starting zones are designed to make the questing system easy. It literally explains and tells you what to do, that you must complete quests to get XP, etc. It is already stupid easy, even for newbies. I don't know what else you expect from it.
    BE and Draenei still use the same TBC starting experience, hell the blood elf starting zone still mentions Kael'thas as still being alive. And compared to other mmos, wow has one of the worst starting experiences when it comes to actually learning your class. Wow's starting experience really doesn't teach anything about how your class plays, you're sort of on your own there.

  12. #32
    Elemental Lord Kyphael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varolyn View Post
    BE and Draenei still use the same TBC starting experience, hell the blood elf starting zone still mentions Kael'thas as still being alive. And compared to other mmos, wow has one of the worst starting experiences when it comes to actually learning your class. Wow's starting experience really doesn't teach anything about how your class plays, you're sort of on your own there.
    I have to re-do the blood elf starting zone for the Kael'thas bit, from what I recalled, they had updated quest texts in Cataclysm, they said so but at work I'm going off the top of my head here.

    As for learning one's class, ok yeah, I'll admit, WoW may not be the best at it, but you start out with like 2 or 3 base abilities, and the little exclamation marks that pop up every time a new skill is learned or you're introduced to something new are informative. Then subsequently, as you learn new abilities, they now descend to the action bar automatically. New players no longer have to learn new ability ranks, or chase after class trainers, so Blizzard's already dumbed down the game exponentially.
    Last edited by Kyphael; 2020-04-08 at 06:41 PM.

  13. #33
    Bloodsail Admiral Evaddon's Avatar
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    WoW needed something like this for awhile, I was hoping with class trails and proven grounds we'd get a nice woven experience of the two to teach players the fundamentals of their class and the game, hopefully this does the job!

    But I'd still love for "Proven Grounds" to be updated as a teaching simulation, especially with the new AI systems that can be integrated it can be extremely helpful teaching people various mechanics of the class and game, even with Brawlers Guild "like" bosses tossed in for further advancements

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    I have to re-do the blood elf starting zone for the Kael'thas bit, from what I recalled, they had updated quest texts in Cataclysm, they said do but at work I'm going off the top of my head here.

    As for learning one's class, ok yeah, I'll admit, WoW may not be the best at it, but you start out with like 2 or 3 base abilities, and the little exclamation marks that pop up every time a new skill is learned or you're introduced to something new are informative. Then subsequently, as you learn new abilities, they now descend to the action bar automatically. New players no longer have to learn new ability ranks, or chase after class trainers, so Blizzard's already dumbed down the game exponentially.
    Those who care about the lore behind their race will look into it regardless, the rest either A) Don't care, or B)Are the assholes who troll rp.

  15. #35
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Imagine people making a more coherent leveling experience into something negative.
    Worrying about new players is for the developers, old and jaded players cannot dictate these things. Besides, I have it on good authority from MMO-C peeps that there are no new players in this game. Ever.
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  16. #36
    tbh i think a great many players feel the same as you,maybe they wont admit it tho.oh and btw arent you supposed to be dead?

  17. #37
    The Lightbringer Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Georg Von Vitzthum View Post
    Wait, is that an Ogron? is how you say it? why and how there is one in azeroth? did they come with the maghar?

    guess it could means a lot of shit came from draenor, and maybe potential allied races as well, like Saberons and ogres
    My guess is that they will put something out of every expansion on that starting zone to hook new players to level up their first alt in that expansion.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  18. #38
    Scarab Lord crakerjack's Avatar
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    I really hope something like this will make the average player better. I think what hurts WoW the most is that there's such a huge gap between the ceiling and the floor. In other words, there's a big difference between someone playing their class right and someone who is half-assing their class. Nothing is more infuriating than to play with someone who sucks and has no desire to get better. Whether they're not using all their classes abilities or they're using them poorly, some combination typically results in underperforming. Hopefully with something like this, they'll learn the basics of doing mechanics while playing their class/role correctly.

    I could see the final boss of the starting zone having a quick enrage timer and if you can't do the mechanics and kill him quick enough, then you die and the only way to progress is to try harder and play your class/role better. Things like pet battles shouldn't be a thing when it comes to end game. It shouldn't have its own weekly, it shouldn't have its own WQ's. It can be it's own thing that is there for others, but features like that do nothing to help better the players skills. Just like pet battles, transmoging, achievement hunting and doing legacy content in general should be harder. You should be forced to actually play your class when doing legacy content. You shouldn't have some god status and be able to one shot everything. The average player needs to be better and blizzard needs to find a way to increase the floor without increasing the ceiling. How can they help players feel motivated to become better, while also making them better in the process.

  19. #39
    Elemental Lord Kyphael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Imagine people making a more coherent leveling experience into something negative.
    Worrying about new players is for the developers, old and jaded players cannot dictate these things. Besides, I have it on good authority from MMO-C peeps that there are no new players in this game. Ever.
    I understand why they're doing it perfectly, to try to increase player retention with a stupid easy generic zone that dumbs the game down even further. The problem is, Blizzard is forgetting they are in the MMO business, so even if they manage to retain players a little longer because the new starting zones makes the game seem easy, as soon as said players run into anything even remotely more complicated than that starting zone, they're going to leave anyway. Only players who are interested in playing an MMO will ever stick along over the long haul, anyway.

  20. #40
    Warchief Wangming's Avatar
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    Well I will reserve my final judgement untill after I have played it or at least seen it, but this is one of the changes I definitely welcome. A loooot. If we can't have a revamped questing experience that redose each and every zone and forms a coherent whole with them.....then this is the second best thing. And considering how large a full revamp would be, this is a lot more cost effective.

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