Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Monster Hunter]

But it's not just the USA even in the EU nationalism has run wild strong men are popping up all over the world. The US got lucky with Trump because anyone with more brains would be dictator by now our guard rails are weak and I agree the fact that 47% of the US still supports Trump makes you lose faith in humanity.

But we are fucking smart ebough to have political systems that keep them out.

We lernt from ww2, america sticks to a system invented 300 years ago when people wrnt sure if a nation could exist without a king

Why is le penn not president of france ? Because the system keeps them out, why is fareage or that BNP guy not priminister ? Because the system keeps them out. In Europe, because of our very real and very fucking bloody history with both the extream right and extream left we have changed our systems of democracy, to ensure it cannot happen again, not hold to some stupid ancient pice of fucking shit paper like its the fucking gospels of mark, luke and jhon like the usa holds up its bag of wank constitution.

You Americans defined this world, you dismantled the old empires who previoisly controled and policed it, you chose the reponsabilities of being the center pice and linch pin of the west, so choose very fucking carefuly who you vote for in this election, choose to be a nation who lives up to its responsibility or choose to be the disgusting cowards i know you lot really are, who turn tail and become isolationist when times get tough, the choice is yours but dont cry when the world moves on without you if you choose wrong !

[Good Hasbara]

Abd thats the scary thing for me as a non american and why i hope america end as a world super power,

Americans have - objectively - been better stewards for world peace than Europeans were when power was centralized in Europe. Even China might be a better alternative to American hegemony than Europe. But we're not giving Euros another chance.

[Zaydin]

Mike Pences Chief of Staff and two other aides have tested positive for COVID-19 so far. Might be a new outbreak starting in the White House.

Seems a good bet Pence will be forced off the campaign trail to quarantine or be hospitalized soon.

Apparently Mark Meadows tried to cover it up, too.

[Monster Hunter]

Americans have - objectively - been better stewards for world peace than Europeans. If you want to replace the US with China that's fine, but centralizing power in Europe would be a disaster.

Europe was no worse than america, the period from 1850 to 1916 was also an un presidented time of peace and prosperty equal to or in some cases surpasing the period under the usa, it was the very period of peace that allowed a shitty bsck water like the usa to become a powerful nation without being stamped out like the bug it should have been, so wind your neck in bub.

Lest we bring up all the fuckibg abortions of geopolitics the usa has created over what ?? 75 yrears since 1945 ? Vietnam, bay lf pigs, the whole middle east shit.... oh the Suez crisis you started... list gles on, at leadt the empires started shit intentionally, america is just one accident after another because you dlnr fukcing learn, over and over same fucking misrakes and they dont fucking learn.

YOU put Sadam in power and YOU lot fucking LIED to the the UK to Nato,to the UN to get us to help you clean up the SHIT you created. Our people died for shit YOU lot made, YOU made alquidea, YOU FUCKKNG FUNDED AND ARMED THEM, British bood, Nato blood, world blood is on YOU'RE hands so dont for a fucking second pretend YOU are any fucking better than any despots that ruled the world, AMERICA DISGUSTS ME and it disgusts many people aroind the world AND ITS FOR A REASON.
[Infraction]

[Thepersona]

Mike Pences Chief of Staff and two other aides have tested positive for COVID-19 so far. Might be a new outbreak starting in the White House.

Seems a good bet Pence will be forced off the campaign trail to quarantine or be hospitalized soon.

Apparently Mark Meadows tried to cover it up, too.

1 week before election, 2 days after the debate, more people in the Trumpian inner circle tests positive with COVID. lol

[Lanrefni]

Europe was no worse than america, the period from 1850 to 1916 was also an un presidented time of peace and prosperty equal to or in some cases surpasing the period under the usa, it was the very period of peace that allowed a shitty bsck water like the usa to become a powerful nation without being stamped out like the bug it should have been, so wind your neck in bub.

Lest we bring up all the fuckibg abortions of geopolitics the usa has created over what ?? 75 yrears since 1945 ? Vietnam, bay lf pigs, the whole middle east shit.... oh the Suez crisis you started... list gles on, at leadt the empires started shit intentionally, america is just one accident after another because you dlnr fukcing learn, over and over same fucking misrakes and they dont fucking learn.

Vietnam was actually the French's fault,but the US was stupid enough to think it would be great propaganda if they "liberated" it,so they joined in and made it worse.

[Endus]

Americans have - objectively - been better stewards for world peace than Europeans were when power was centralized in Europe. Even China might be a better alternative to American hegemony than Europe. But we're not giving Euros another chance.

This is pretty nonsensical. Some of us recall being caught in the middle during the multiple decades of the Cold War. "We were posing such an immense threat of global annihilation that nobody was willing to take the first shot" is a weird as fuck thing to present as being a "steward for world peace". It's like arguing that the guy holding up the bank with a nuclear bomb in a briefcase is "keeping the peace" because the cops aren't willing to risk him setting it off.

[Zaydin]

1 week before election, 2 days after the debate, more people in the Trumpian inner circle tests positive with COVID. lol

Apparently Pences first aide tested positive for COVID a few days ago while his Chief of Staff tested positive today. There's also a third yet to be identified Pence aide who has also tested positive.

Like I said, Mark Meadows apparently tried to cover this up, probably because it would be another body blow to Trumps already failing campaign for another COVID outbreak to hit the White House.

[Kaleredar]

Americans have - objectively - been better stewards for world peace than Europeans. If you want to replace the US with China that's fine, but centralizing power in Europe would be a disaster.

How would centralizing power in China be any better?

In fact I think it'd be a whole lot worse.

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Yet, you have no problem with someone who worked with Segregationist congressman, was critical at times with the Bush administration for not doing enough in Iraq. Because previous policy actions aren't allowed to be a factor. It's very two sided way of viewing it, if you vote for Trump you're a racist. Well congratulations that is a very novice and narrow view of the world.

So your suggestion is that Trump is better than Biden because he has less political experience?

That's literally what you're saying. Because Trump didn't have the option to weigh in on these issues, he's "better?" Also, cute, you're criticizing Biden for "working with segregationist congressmen" by merit of him happening to be in congress with them at the same time, when Trump is actively drawing the support of fucking white supremacists.

Well congratulations that is a very novice and narrow view of the world.

[Thepersona]

Apparently Pences first aide tested positive for COVID a few days ago while his Chief of Staff tested positive today. There's also a third yet to be identified Pence aide who has also tested positive.

Like I said, Mark Meadows apparently tried to cover this up, probably because it would be another body blow to Trumps already failing campaign for another COVID outbreak to hit the White House.

The Body blow already happened. They have 3 confirmed cases, possibly more.

[Benggaul]

Nation-bashing is an infract-able offense and you're derailing the thread in any case, so I'll kindly ask y'all to cool it.

[Zaydin]

Apparently now two of Kelly Loeffler's staffers have tested positive for COVID, too.

Do we need more proof that Republicans are super spreaders?

[Endus]

Yet, you have no problem with someone who worked with Segregationist congressman, was critical at times with the Bush administration for not doing enough in Iraq. Because previous policy actions aren't allowed to be a factor. It's very two sided way of viewing it, if you vote for Trump you're a racist. Well congratulations that is a very novice and narrow view of the world.

Here's the core problem of your position, and why it falls completely to pieces every time.

You said "yet, you have no problem with [Biden]". I do have problems with Biden. That you can't seem to grasp that possibility exists is the central issue with your position.

They're not deal-breakers, because you're essentially misrepresenting the facts of these cases to present a false image of Biden.

The world isn't split between the perfect choice and the only wrong choice. No choice is perfect. You go for the best option on the table at the time you make the decision. If you can't see that's Biden, here, then that's why people call you a Trump supporter and point out how little you appear to believe in any of the ideological positions you claim to hold. Because you're completely willing to sacrifice those positions.

[zealo]

Europe was no worse than america, the period from 1850 to 1916 was also an un presidented time of peace and prosperty equal to or in some cases surpasing the period under the usa, it was the very period of peace that allowed a shitty bsck water like the usa to become a powerful nation without being stamped out like the bug it should have been, so wind your neck in bub.

Lest we bring up all the fuckibg abortions of geopolitics the usa has created over what ?? 75 yrears since 1945 ? Vietnam, bay lf pigs, the whole middle east shit.... oh the Suez crisis you started... list gles on, at leadt the empires started shit intentionally, america is just one accident after another because you dlnr fukcing learn, over and over same fucking misrakes and they dont fucking learn.

YOU put Sadam in power and YOU lot fucking LIED to the the UK to Nato,to the UN to get us to help you clean up the SHIT you created. Our people died for shit YOU lot made, YOU made alquidea, YOU FUCKKNG FUNDED AND ARMED THEM, British bood, Nato blood, world blood is on YOU'RE hands so dont for a fucking second pretend YOU are any fucking better than any despots that ruled the world, AMERICA DISGUSTS ME and it disgusts many people aroind the world AND ITS FOR A REASON.

The period from 1850 to 1916 (that is a really nonsensical cut off there, 1789 to 1914 is a better cut off for that general period) involved Europe colonising all of Africa and almost all of east Asia, bar China, they certainly tried with that one, Japan, and what was then known as Siam, now Thailand, and Europe were itself the stage to multiple large wars between European powers, as well as numerous genocides at their hand in colonies.

[Felya]

Here is your problem.

Your problem is the same problem as with neoliberals, willingness to bend over to the right. The only difference is that you get less than nothing in return...

Not all Trump voters are racist and the statement in itself is kind of bigoted.

Not all Biden voters are neoliberals or BidenBros.

Additionally you take any criticism of Biden or the DNC and defend it because the GOP is worse.

Because there is an election less than two weeks from now. We are making a choice... the choice between Biden and Trump is clear...

That doesn't make it good or doens't mean I can't be call it out because it bothers me. It's clear you don't think there is rank corruption, but I do and it affects both parties.

You are comparing corruption of politicians, to that of a business man. Do you know the problem with corporatist?

[Breccia]

Yet another poll has come out saying Biden won the debate.

Of all the categories asked in the poll, Trump won one: crime and safety.

By two percent.

In a poll with the margin of error being three percent.

Biden won literally everything else, unless you count gender lines.

64% said the mute button made the debate better, only 6% said worse.

[Felya]

Here's the core problem of your position, and why it falls completely to pieces every time.

It’s the same problem they have with incrementalism of neoliberals. Was the problem looking the other way or joining in, as conservatives shifted the country right, in the name of incrementalism? What exactly is this attack, during an election, but the same thing... with the exception that you exchange incrementalism for fascism?

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No it's not, and that isn't what I said at all. Congratulations on making yourself feel better pretending to knock down a point I never made.

What do you call leftist who abstain from voting against conservative bills, because it’s politically convenient?

[Elegiac]

Not all Trump voters are racist

I've seen no indication that they aren't. The idea that people can't be racist by default in a racist society is honestly fairly baffling.

and the statement in itself is kind of bigoted.

Only if you think it's bad being prejudiced against bigots.

[Felya]

Sorry but again for the 100th time nothing discussed here is going to swing an election.

If you think the point of posting is impacting the election, bitching about forum posters has less impact than discussion of policy. It’s also a shift excuse to be off topic...

I take what people concentrate on a reflection of the larger issue. Namely self-described liberals defending Iraq war vote, DOMA, mass incarceration (new Jim Crowe), NSA unconstitutional spying, and a whole mess of other red flags. i am voting for some who did all those things because blah blah blah lesser evil, but at some point the lesser evil is just plan evil. You need look no further how both sides attack the candidate nepotism they dislike , but explain away their preferred candidate nepotism.

This is funnier if you said it after defending Trump supporters. Why do you understand that “not all Trump supporters”, but don’t get the same about people who simply post that they will vote for Biden?

Trump is a a result of decades of Biden like policy.

No, Trump is the result of successful disenfranchisement of the vote. Something that is objectively against democrats best interest. If every American that can vote, voted... there would have been no Trump.

I fear the next competent Trump who doesn't say the bad parts out loud like he isn't supposed too. Trump is an idiot but he isn't any near Mussolini you al like to paint him as. Trump is just a narcissist a-hole who never leaned not to say dumb things because he has always surrounded himself by those who only praise him. Biden is a narcissist who has spent his whole career giving the rich exactly what they ask in the hopes of being POTUS. 4th times a charm.

If Trump wins, it doesn’t mater... it proves that fascism without merit wins, even with 220000 dead Americans.

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I've seen no indication that they aren't. The idea that people can't be racist by default in a racist society is honestly fairly baffling.

It’s funnier when he said this earlier today:

Namely self-described liberals defending Iraq war vote, DOMA, mass incarceration (new Jim Crowe), NSA unconstitutional spying, and a whole mess of other red flags. i am voting for some who did all those things because blah blah blah lesser evil, but at some point the lesser evil is just plan evil. You need look no further how both sides attack the candidate nepotism they dislike , but explain away their preferred candidate nepotism.

Just a reminder @Jettisawn... the reason you said you are voting Biden, is because of Trump’s hysterectomies on the border. But, liberals supporting Iraq War, while Trump was peacefully screaming about Muslims dancing on roof tops. If he was in power, he totally wouldn’t have bombed the shit out of them and take their oil, give it to Exxon... they are great people. You know... like Trump promised to do, before hiring a former Exxon CEO as Secretary of State.

Edit: Oh and while all this is happening... the people voting for the guy responsible for genocide at the border, are not racist... they need a white knight... just like neoliberals white knighted for conservative through Biden since the 80s.

[Elegiac]

It’s funnier when he said this earlier today:

The level of defensiveness on exhibition at any insinuation people who voted for Trump in 2016 might have less than legitimate reasons leads me to suspect said person voted for Trump in 2016 and doesn't want to admit it.

Here's a nifty article that really should just be the bookend to the concept of 'undecided voters', because they don't actually exist.

There are many things in this world that I find vexing, some of greater import than others. Come election time there is nothing I find more vexing than the undecided voter. Does such a creature truly exist, one week out from an election? I don't buy it for a second, It is my believe that anyone telling you they are an undecided voter at this stage falls into one of three easily defined categories.

There are the Purebred Cretins (PC for short), within this category live the "pox on all their houses brigade", these are the one's who are always so keen to tell you how the parties are all the same. They will tell you with one breath, that all politicians are liars and cannot be trusted and complain with the next that those same politicians are not telling them enough. These PCs' can never explain how being given more detailed explanations about policies from a source that they will never believe can help them make their minds up. Constantly moaning about how they never have enough information to make a decision, they are wholly lacking in the gumption to seek out that information or the mental wherewithal to correctly interpret the information should they stumble across it. The PC will most likely not vote come polling day as they will still be waiting for more information long after the polls have closed.

The second category of undecided voter is the Duplicitous Cretin (DC for short), the DC as far as I can fathom is a decided voter who for some reason has come to the conclusion that it is easier to garner people to their cause by pretending to be an indecisive cretin. The DC can be spotted on social media, online newspaper and blog comment sections and television audience participation panels fairly easily. The giveaway for the DC is that, whilst they may always start of any discussion sounding even handed, as the debate heats up, they reflexively defend their cause thereby giving away their allegiance. A fine example of that can be found on the Victoria Derbyshire Show, today 1/5/2015. A lady who initially attempts to pass herself off as undecided is defending all things David Cameron and Tory as the audience discussion comes to a heated conclusion. How successful this ruse is I do not know, it must have some success, as so many try it. Maybe it is particularly successful with PCs?

The last category are the Attention Seeking Cretins (AC for short). The AC has certain traits in common with both the PC and DC brigades. Like the PC, the AC never has enough information, unlike the PC however this lack of information is not about ignorance but a lack of coverage of subjects dear to the ACs' heart. ACs' are always undecided because no one is talking about X or Y subject and if only someone would, their decision would be so easily made. Like the DC though the AC is already decided, a few insightful questions about the ACs' concerns and their view on it, will always point to a party which is stronger on the issue than others and the AC as a concerned voter will be aware of that. The AC plays the part of the undecided voter in the believe that doing so makes politicians keep their issue to the fore.

Whilst undecided voters are on the whole harmless, the amount of attention paid to them by the media makes for a dull and wearisome campaign, as reporters, politicians and undecided voters go round and round on the wheel of ignorance. Asking the same questions of politicians, getting the same answers from politicians, putting those answers to undecided voters and getting the same cretinous answers from undecided voters, going back to the politicians, repeat ad nauseaum. One week out from polling day I fear the next undecided voter I meet may find themselves the victim of a vicious wedgie.

Pick your poison.

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You have a very simple polar view of the world

Sure, Jan. As Endus said:

Here's the core problem of your position, and why it falls completely to pieces every time.

You said "yet, you have no problem with [Biden]". I do have problems with Biden. That you can't seem to grasp that possibility exists is the central issue with your position.

They're not deal-breakers, because you're essentially misrepresenting the facts of these cases to present a false image of Biden.

The world isn't split between the perfect choice and the only wrong choice. No choice is perfect. You go for the best option on the table at the time you make the decision. If you can't see that's Biden, here, then that's why people call you a Trump supporter and point out how little you appear to believe in any of the ideological positions you claim to hold. Because you're completely willing to sacrifice those positions.

Don't cast stones in a glass house.