Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Edge-]

Biden has stated several times that he is against most forms of social security. You can easily find the soundbites of him stating he wants to cut pensions and all that stuff.

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...-attack-biden/

Yeah, decades ago when that was a more common view, though many of the attacks against him have grossly overstated his positions. He hasn't held that position for a while now, as times and opinions have changed.

And he's already talked about building on the ACA. It's not M4A, which isn't feasible in the short-term anyways, but it's an improvement and continuation on the path towards M4A.

[PfeffermintShake]

Evidence, please.

Uh good luck. Some peple are only able to make anti-biden posts. Even making a lie to misrepresent a Biden poisitton.

Biden's Health plan includes a Public Option as well more assistance for insurance buyers. Also, Unions get to keep their plans.

Giving Americans a new choice, a public health insurance option like Medicare. If your insurance company isn’t doing right by you, you should have another, better choice. Whether you’re covered through your employer, buying your insurance on your own, or going without coverage altogether, the Biden Plan will give you the choice to purchase a public health insurance option like Medicare. As in Medicare, the Biden public option will reduce costs for patients by negotiating lower prices from hospitals and other health care providers. It also will better coordinate among all of a patient’s doctors to improve the efficacy and quality of their care, and cover primary care without any co-payments. And it will bring relief to small businesses struggling to afford coverage for their employees.

• MEdicare for those that want it.
• A decent expansion of the path that Obama started.
• Way better than "just burning it all down".

[Theodarzna]

Yeah, that was my first gut feeling when I started reading into his endorsement too.
Someone selling out his people for personal gain puts him somewhere on the same level as Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson.
At least that is what first appearances tell me when I look into his political history.

Well for the average black southerner, probably nothing would change no matter what, but Clyburn and a lot of his immediate circle would get a lot of patronage one way or another. The Democratic Party owes his machine big time for saving their skin, so even when Biden goes down in flames in 2020, even if its a humiliating shellacking, he will get a lot of power. Granted he was already Party whip since churning out votes is what he does.

He runs the last effective political machine, he has a very real social base of people and a well tuned machine at that. I mean, for Black southerners nothing would change no matter who wins in 2020; nothing really changed under Obama either. But Clyburn and his network would get a lot of work, money, and key people in power so the machine stays strong.

If Sanders voters want to actually hurt the party, in all honesty, bringing down Clyburn is a way better use of time and energy than protest voting against Biden.

- - - Updated - - -

You are asking the wrong questions, the right question is why would there be an investigation? the criminal aspect has expired and the only reason would be the standard of the person who previously held office which is Trump. How many investigations have been launched into the 40+ sexual assault accusations against Trump? zero. The standard for Kavanaugh was Clarence Thomas and now the bar is lowered the right has made these accusations moot.

The standards now is Kavanaugh, Trump, Roy Moore known sex offenders, pedophile and the likes which they have vehemently protected. The only reasons for launching investigation is Trump smearing Biden or Biden wanting to clear his name.

I'd like to assume that because you have full on abandoned the "But you're a Trumpster" shtick that you finally given up on that line.

If there is to be no investigation, than what is it we are asked for? I mean you, Themius and Orbitus are saying "Well it should be investigated I guess" but by whom and in what way? So its a smear to investigate Biden, but wasn't a smear when it was Kavanaugh, Trump or Roy Moore? I mean again this all looks very selective.

- - - Updated - - -

Ya 30 million newly unemployed Americans are very concerned about Flynn getting a fair deal.


These posters really have the pulse of the American electorate. /s

I can't wait for the Dem's to suggest 500 dollars in means tested low interest loans for those Americans and then give up on that in the next bailout deal.

[Felya]

Biden has been promoting social security cuts his entire career.

Than why didn’t it happen with him as VP? If you care about social security, Trump has stated he is willing to cut it and his budget is making it a necessity.

Biden voted in favor of the repeal of Glass Steagle.

... than 20 years later signed off on reinstating it with a 1% limit. WTF?

Hell Warren, the person who really pushed for consumer protection agency got into politics to go against Biden policies.

Yet, he was the VP when she got it? Again, rhetoric is not matching up with action.

You mean until he becomes President and want to do a grand bargain with GOP.

Bargain to get what?

There is no real fixing the ACA at this point, since the individual mandate was struck down.

Uhm, that just means that portion needs to be fixed.

- - - Updated - - -

So its a smear to investigate Biden, but wasn't a smear when it was Kavanaugh, Trump or Roy Moore? I mean again this all looks very selective.

Can you link the Roy Moore and Trump investigations? 47 Trump accusers... link one investigation.

I just noticed what Roy Moore, Trump and Kavanaugh have in common... it’s okay for those born rich, because of affluenza? Biden doesn’t have the same birth right?

[Theodarzna]

The GOP killed the grand bargin.

The problem ultimately with "Grand Bargain" nonsense that Obama, Biden and Clinton offer is that a lot of loyal Democratic Partisans believe deeply and sincerely that the Dems are actually trying to get something out of these bargains and its not merely rhetoric and really the Democrats aren't just getting outwitted or outdone by a uniquely evil opposition but instead are arriving at the conclusion they desire.

Look, you don't pick Larry Summers to be your treasury secretary and/or economics advisor and float putting Jamie Diamond on the team if your plan is universal social programs. If people seriously believe that the Democrats are actually wanting to pursue these programs but just get outdone by the GOP's unique evil then you either have to believe that Democrats are brain dead when it comes to politics OR that this shtick is fundamentally untrue.

[Edge-]

You mean until he becomes President and want to do a grand bargain with GOP.

I mean, when you make things up it's easy to create any argument you want.

There is no real fixing the ACA at this point, since the individual mandate was struck down.

Well, I guess there's literally nothing we can do. Pack it in, cancel the ACA.

If you're ready to give up the fight for the ACA, I don't know how on earth you think Sanders could have pushed forward with the infinitely more complex, challenging, and what will be controversial M4A plans.

[Felya]

The GOP killed the grand bargain.

That’s great... more reason to vote Biden...

What exactly did Biden sign off on? Also limited Glass Steagal, would mean it isn't the same policy.

He was VP when it happened... and yes, it’s the same, but limited in it’s scope to 1%.

Biden's policies lost out. That's the point. I know policies and how people actually voted might not matter to some, but I tend to hold elected officals accountable for how they actually voted.

Lost out to Trump? You are holding Biden accountable, because he didn’t stop Trump? What?

If you don't know what the Grand Bargin was I question why you even trying to defend Biden as VP.

I’m sorry, are you blaming the tea party or blaming democrats for increased budget, for things like healthcare? I am confused here...

The entire point of the ACA was to help control pricing, and the way the ACA tried to accomplish this was with the individual mandate. We are basically marginally better off then we were a decade ago, and the solution is to Fix a broken policy instead of expanding one of the most favored public policies in America?

The individual mandate was how it was paid for, the cost balance was through joining as groups. These were group plans, that individuals could sign up for, just like employers do for you. The cost for the poor was to be mitigated through the mandate. WTF?

40k+ Deaths a year, 500ks medical bankruptcies, millions still with no insurance, millions more under insured, but hey let's fix this broken piece of shit called Obama Care. Good Fing Plan.

Why are you blaming Biden, for what Trump did? Shouldn’t have attacked Hillary in 2016, like you are doing now to Biden. One would hope to learn from mistakes...

- - - Updated - - -

All these 'protecting women from abuse and sexual harassment' charities seemingly are nothing but a front. A political tool used by the powerful to virtue signal and make sure that the actual powerful will never get investigated.

Because of people like you... name the woman Trump attacked in 2016...

[Theodarzna]

Which brings us back to the point I made earlier:

All these 'protecting women from abuse and sexual harassment' charities seemingly are nothing but a front. A political tool used by the powerful to virtue signal and make sure that the actual powerful will never get investigated.

The real take away is how utterly fake, which everyone and their mother knew anyway, the #MeToo and Womens March and all that stuff was and is. All that goes out the window for political convenience and they turn on a dime about what they believed. Hell, after the Clinton accusers back in the 90's got utterly trashed; I guess we can expect in fifteen years a bunch of these current activist/celebrities self immolating to defend Biden to admit they might have acted poorly just as many people long after the fact state as much from the Clinton era.

None of this was sincere on their part. If its politically useful they believe it, if its not, they don't. Or they engage in 'Whataboutery' since Biden's only case for why he should be president is contingent on Trump; and also hilariously by doing that Whataboutery they tacitly imply the accusations against Biden are true enough by their own standards, or at least by the standards they pretended to have when it was politically useful to pretend as such.

[Felya]

The real take away is how utterly fake, which everyone and their mother knew anyway, the #MeToo and Womens March and all that stuff was and is.

You are projecting and using it as an excuse to attack opponents.

[unfilteredJW]

The real take away is how utterly fake, which everyone and their mother knew anyway, the #MeToo and Womens March and all that stuff was and is. All that goes out the window for political convenience and they turn on a dime about what they believed. Hell, after the Clinton accusers back in the 90's got utterly trashed; I guess we can expect in fifteen years a bunch of these current activist/celebrities self immolating to defend Biden to admit they might have acted poorly just as many people long after the fact state as much from the Clinton era.

None of this was sincere on their part. If its politically useful they believe it, if its not, they don't. Or they engage in 'Whataboutery' since Biden's only case for why he should be president is contingent on Trump; and also hilariously by doing that Whataboutery they tacitly imply the accusations against Biden are true enough by their own standards, or at least by the standards they pretended to have when it was politically useful to pretend as such.

I imagine it must be tough to look in the mirror and be disgusted by what you see of yourself, but projecting that onto others shouldn't be how you deal with it.

[Machismo]

???

What are you fucking on about? Are you alright?

If I knew the name of the woman who was sexually assaulted by Trump in 2016 I'd tell you, however the list of accusations is too long I wouldn't even know which one you're going on about even if I googled it: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ct-allegations

- - - Updated - - -





No, you guys and Biden are the reason why women will never truly be safe from sexual harassment by politicians in power.

So, why then are you trying to hard to push Trump?

[Felya]

What are you fucking on about? Are you alright?

Yes, but thanks for the insult... You are using women for your political gain, showing absolutely 0 actual care. How many times do I have to ask the name of a woman Trump attacked in 2016? One would think that someone as devoted to defending assault victims, would care enouph to google her name or just copy it from me responding to you with it, several times.

You think it’s magic that I knew you wouldn’t even look it up? Maybe, I understand what you are doing, better than you do.

If I knew the name of the woman who was sexually assaulted by Trump in 2016 I'd tell you, however the list of accusations is too long I wouldn't even know which one you're going on about even if I googled it

Nope... only one from 2016... still don’t care enough to even check. How come you know Biden’s accusers name, but not Trump’s? Is that NYT fault?

[Machismo]

Because FUCK BIDEN, that is why!

Thanks for making my case for me.

[Felya]

No, you guys and Biden are the reason why women will never truly be safe from sexual harassment by politicians in power.

If I’m projecting, how come I knew you didn’t even know her name, despite me linking it to you at least twice? That’s not projecting, it’s clairvoyance... or maybe I actually do understand.

[unfilteredJW]

???

What are you fucking on about? Are you alright?

If I knew the name of the woman who was sexually assaulted by Trump in 2016 I'd tell you, however the list of accusations is too long I wouldn't even know which one you're going on about even if I googled it: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ct-allegations

- - - Updated - - -





No, you guys and Biden are the reason why women will never truly be safe from sexual harassment by politicians in power.

I'm getting Final Fantasy VII Shinra flashbacks here when I hear you guys talk:

And I'll continue to watch your slow circle of the drain amused.

[Felya]

Because FUCK BIDEN, that is why!

Now do it while naming the 47 women accusing Trump... show us you care...

[Edge-]

The ACA is shit, and it was always shit.

Keeping kids on the parents insurance until 26 is shit?
Protecting people from being denied coverage due to "pre-existing conditions" like acne or a pregnancy is shit?
Ending their ability to deny expensive coverage on a "technicality" is shit?
Subsidies to help get low-income families coverage is shit?
Ending annual/lifetime coverage limits is shit?

I mean, it's a flawed bill and I doubt you'll find anyone, even Obama, who would argue otherwise. But it was a huge leap forward that added a ton of protections that are now considered the "baseline" for any federal action on healthcare moving forward. All those people that complained about "DEATH PANELS" and fought the ACA? Yeah, most of them discovered they like these protections, and it's this kind of stepping stone approach that will take us to M4A.

Just because something is less terrible doesn't mean it's a solution.

So if it's not a perfect solution we shouldn't do anything? Making things "less terrible" is literally how we fix problems. It's extremely rare that you can perfectly fix everything all at once. This is some utopian nonsense thinking.

I guess that's the best we can hope for if the Democrats manage to have a super majority. No real solutions in sight.

A Democratic majority doesn't mean that Democrats can do whatever they want, dude. M4A would likely require a 2/3 vote in both the Senate and House, and that's not happening anytime soon either. So you're basically arguing for the US to regress backwards on this area until we have a perfect one-shot solution.

Which is patently fucking insane.

[QUOTE=Jettisawn;52304249]I'm also not making up centrist democrats like Biden having a history of making deals the GOP that hurt Americans.[quote]

He's had is successes and misses - https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...ackfire-226758

But I actually want someone who can get shit done, even if it means compromising with Republicans which...is kinda necessary for better or worse.

[Grimbold21]

Boy oh boy, you guys are on one hell of a merry go around ride, huh

[Machismo]

I'll gladly make it over and over again until it's start getting through to you.

Either way, you're not voting Biden either, are you? Are you a Trump supporter now then? Because that is the summation of everything you've been arguing the past few dozen pages in this thread.

Oh, I've had you pegged for a long time. But, now we have you admitting to it, so there's no way for you to back out now.

You won't be voting at all, because you don't live here.

[PACOX]

"Joe Biden is Joe Biden"

What the actual fuck has this country come to?