1. #2241
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I've never called for burning at the stake that I can recall, or if I did, awesome and metal AF.

    However; I have always maintained that we can't rule out that it is a lie or that the story is not objectively true in such circumstances. On the other hand others have stated that to even suggesting that is bigoted, sexism and that I have internalized misogyny of suggesting that idea, but now those same people both activists and forum posters here are happy to engage in what they once called rape culture to protect a center-right, Larry Summers/Jamie Diamond appointing, segregationist stan'ing, warmongering, credit card lobbying serving, dementia addled centrist who said he'd veto M4A even if it got to his desk.

    The Democratic Party could pick a better candidate. In order for me to be as bad and hypocritical as you, I'd have to be saying unironically that we must believe Tara Reade's story. I'd say it has more evidence than Ford's story, but I'd personally not find hers or Ford's tales of misdeeds compelling; a fact I said earlier. But I am fascinated to watch Party cheerleaders turn on a dime over this one and self-immolate, self-immolate for a candidate so deeply flawed and awful that it is funny to watch.

    This is the hill you chose to burn what little integrity that remains upon. The Senator from MBNA, the guy who went after Anita Hill, the Iraq War hardliner, the gut Social Security and Medicare guy, the Bankruptcy Bill guy, the Segregationist eulogy guy, Even Warren whose career began as a fight against him has chosen to fall on the sword for him. That is what makes this so delicious to watch, to see so many preening moralizing folk willingly set themselves on fire for nothing for a candidate who by his own words said "Nothing will fundamentally change".

    Like if it came out today, that Bernard Sanders fucked a sixteen year old, I could understand say @PACOX and @Jettisawn and others burning up their integrity to call the young lady a liar, at least Sanders has credibly promised us health care, debt forgiveness and structural change to the economy and a better life. In that fictional scenario I could kinda rationalize that kind of partisan team defending water carrier act. Both of them could at least say "Hey, this guy has promised me a better world, I'll sacrifice anything for it". But Gillibrand, Alyssa Milano, the whole Democratic establishment and many posters on here, yourself included, are betraying your previous values for a candidate who has straight up vowed to change nothing, do nothing, you are doing it for decorum I guess. That is truly profound. The entire #MeToo political machine doused with gasoline and set ablaze to defend Joe "Nothing will fundamentally change" Biden.
    You haven't given any reason for you to believe her over Ford aside from the fact that it would benefit your guy. Ford not only had corroborating witnesses there were several incidents including those documented in a book by Kavanaugh's buddy about their adventures and you still defended him blindly. I never said any of the things you are putting in my mouth my stance has always been investigate if you want to find out the truth best done by an independent prosecutor.

    However given that there are no criminal charges, that the current administration has already been impeached for smearing Biden in the Ukraine scandal, that you wouldn't believe a Biden led investigation this is a moot point. The only hypocrite here is you who suddenly has found belief in victims when it suits your partisan needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    If and when the day comes to vote I have to choose between Trump and Biden I definitely won't be voting for Trump. I think it would be a lie if I said I would vote for Biden. I will protest the illusion of choice every day until that day comes though.

    I can see why someone would hold their nose and vote for Biden. I get it. I'm would not fault someone for refusing to vote for him because they cannot accept who he is.
    I say if you can afford to have someone like Stephen Miller in charge of immigration and William Barr or Jeff Sessions in charge of racial justice then don't vote Biden. However if you can do that then you are probably rather privileged enough that what those racists fucks do for 4 more years won't affect you or the people you care about.

  2. #2242
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    You haven't given any reason for you to believe her over Ford aside from the fact that it would benefit your guy. Ford not only had corroborating witnesses there were several incidents including those documented in a book by Kavanaugh's buddy about their adventures and you still defended him blindly. I never said any of the things you are putting in my mouth my stance has always been investigate if you want to find out the truth best done by an independent prosecutor.

    However given that there are no criminal charges, that the current administration has already been impeached for smearing Biden in the Ukraine scandal, that you wouldn't believe a Biden led investigation this is a moot point. The only hypocrite here is you who suddenly has found belief in victims when it suits your partisan needs.
    Just remember... 170 killed by white nationalists is overblown by the media. There is no point... there is no shame...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  3. #2243
    I wonder how much of a chance Justin Amash has?
    Libertarians are pretty much a joke, but....

  4. #2244
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I mean wrote on how other Dems were forced to resign or not even given the time of day by the party because of rumors of sexual misconduct. Meanwhile you can ignore Tara and still come of dozens of times Biden acted inappropriately. The charges against him aren't even recent, turns out he has been Creepy Joe for almost 30 years. We were talking about the same thing LAST YEAR...As they say though Joe will be Joe.

    It would be one thing if Biden was the only candidate the Left had. There were dozens of alternatives. But the chosen on is the one who is part of of the club the MeToo movement is against. The one who has been on the wrong side of just about every cause in America because he "wanted to get deals done". From segregation, woman rights, LGBT issues, to healthcare, Biden on adopts "liberal" positions after the hard work has been. What a strong leader!

    Tons of people threw their name into the hate but people are supposed to throw their convictions away for the groper who touched less woman than the other groper. Pfft.
    Please list all the other sexual assault charges against Biden. We'll wait.
    Last edited by cubby; 2020-05-01 at 02:57 AM.

  5. #2245
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Oh, now you can see? Should have tried before insulting...

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    Examples of things I never said. Fine... you support sexual assault... don’t get too defensive...



    You don’t have healthcare, you are not forced to get it. WTF?
    While legally it's splitting hairs, on a practical level the choice is to get health insurance, be in an exempt population, or face a monetary penalty underwritten by the force of law. So on that practical level, saying that the law forces people to get insurance is pretty much accurate. It just specifically lays out the penalty for non-compliance.

  6. #2246
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    You haven't given any reason for you to believe her over Ford aside from the fact that it would benefit your guy. Ford not only had corroborating witnesses there were several incidents including those documented in a book by Kavanaugh's buddy about their adventures and you still defended him blindly. I never said any of the things you are putting in my mouth my stance has always been investigate if you want to find out the truth best done by an independent prosecutor.

    However given that there are no criminal charges, that the current administration has already been impeached for smearing Biden in the Ukraine scandal, that you wouldn't believe a Biden led investigation this is a moot point. The only hypocrite here is you who suddenly has found belief in victims when it suits your partisan needs.
    Yes, I have. First thing that I count as fairly good evidence is the Larry King call in which is contemporaneous corroboration that SOMETHING happened. The second is she can document without a shred of doubt that she was around Joe Biden at the time of the alleged assault. AND she now has the neighbor as confirmation as well, and prior to that former staff at the time recalling her removal. None of these sorts of things Ford had.

    And I've said time and again, being critical is fine, but right now you guys are being rather selective in when you elect to be critical, seemingly only when its politically convenient. I haven't demanded you believe Tara Reade, I've only demanded consistency from you guys.

    But hey, misrepresenting my words is in fashion, so you do you boo.
    Last edited by Theodarzna; 2020-05-01 at 02:59 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  7. #2247
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Why would I? There is undeniable proof of what Trump has done/does. To the point we have recordings of him gloating.

    My point is Biden could literally go on TV and show evidence he's innocent and people would still disregard it.
    This - precisely. The Biden "creepy joe" narrative is a pure GOP/Trump tactic now. The people who repeat this, over and over again, while claiming to look for another candidate, are just helping Trump win and this country die - whether on purpose or not.
    Last edited by cubby; 2020-05-01 at 03:00 AM.

  8. #2248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I say if you can afford to have someone like Stephen Miller in charge of immigration and William Barr or Jeff Sessions in charge of racial justice then don't vote Biden. However if you can do that then you are probably rather privileged enough that what those racists fucks do for 4 more years won't affect you or the people you care about.
    You are also talking about Trump that wants to get re-elected. The next 4 years are going to be different. This is when the promised social cuts are coming in, with likely more corporate tax cut to inflate the stock market. This is where Trump’s default on debt plan goes into play. Who the fuck knows what deal he will sign with China, with a 250 million debt being due in 2022. By their own logic... they don’t care about any of it.

    I’m already enjoying some posting from these same people in the covid thread. Federal response is so bad... /eyeroll

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    This - precisely. The Biden "creepy joe" narrative is a pure GOP/Trump tactic now. The people who repeat this, over and over again, while claiming to look for another candidate, are just helping Trump win and this country die - whether on purpose or not.
    Doesn’t this prove alt right, correct... for at least a portion of liberals? they don’t care... to a lot of these people, it was never about helping the poor or needy or any of that. It was just virtue signaling... all those videos making fun of Bernie supporters not understanding anything... the useful idiots bullshit... all of it was right and we were fools to defend them for years. Shit... does this mean soy is giving me tits? God damn it... I just had two packs of extra hard tofu delivered...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  9. #2249
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Yes, I have. First thing that I count as fairly good evidence is the Larry King call in which is contemporaneous corroboration that SOMETHING happened. The second is she can document without a shred of doubt that she was around Joe Biden at the time of the alleged assault. AND she now has the neighbor as confirmation as well, and prior to that former staff at the time recalling her removal. None of these sorts of things Ford had.

    And I've said time and again, being critical is fine, but right now you guys are being rather selective in when you elect to be critical, seemingly only when its politically convenient. I haven't demanded you believe Tara Reade, I've only demanded consistency from you guys.

    But hey, misrepresenting my words is in fashion, so you do you boo.
    So, why did you spend so long bashing Ford? Ford testified under oath.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    You are also talking about Trump that wants to get re-elected. The next 4 years are going to be different. This is when the promised social cuts are coming in, with likely more corporate tax cut to inflate the stock market. This is where Trump’s default on debt plan goes into play. Who the fuck knows what deal he will sign with China, with a 250 million debt being due in 2022. By their own logic... they don’t care about any of it.
    Is that $250MM debt due to China Trump's debt?


    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Doesn’t this prove alt right, correct... for at least a portion of liberals? they don’t care... to a lot of these people, it was never about helping the poor or needy or any of that. It was just virtue signaling... all those videos making fun of Bernie supporters not understanding anything... the useful idiots bullshit... all of it was right and we were fools to defend them for years. Shit... does this mean soy is giving me tits? God damn it... I just had two packs of extra hard tofu delivered...
    Lol throw it out!

  11. #2251
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I wonder how much of a chance Justin Amash has?
    Libertarians are pretty much a joke, but....
    There's about 7 libertarians in this country.

    I like Justin Amash. He's certainly not a purist Republican, but he at least was willing to stand up to the GOP and the shit stain Freedom Caucus. That earns something in my book.

  12. #2252
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I say if you can afford to have someone like Stephen Miller in charge of immigration and William Barr or Jeff Sessions in charge of racial justice then don't vote Biden. However if you can do that then you are probably rather privileged enough that what those racists fucks do for 4 more years won't affect you or the people you care about.
    Im not sure if I want to go down the rabbit hole of Joe Biden and racism or not. His 'my black friend' shit is insulting and he co-opt several policies that hurt people who look like me.

    The Klan burned crosses in the town next to where grew up. There's still some spots in that down you avoid if only to keep your own peace. I am not afraid of the Stephan Miller types.

    Systemic racism will still exists with Trump or Biden. Status quo, peace before justice Biden will do same he has done for minorities while he was senator - a whole lot of nothing while asking for support.

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  13. #2253
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Is that $250MM debt due to China Trump's debt?
    Yes, their bank was one of the investors bailing out Trump’s casino bankruptsies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Im not sure if I want to go down the rabbit hole of Joe Biden and racism or not. His 'my black friend' shit is insulting and he co-opt several policies that hurt people who look like me.

    The Klan burned crosses in the town next to where grew up. There's still some spots in that down you avoid if only to keep your own peace. I am not afraid of the Stephan Miller types.

    Systemic racism will still exists with Trump or Biden. Status quo, peace before justice Biden will do same he has done for minorities while he was senator - a whole lot of nothing while asking for support.
    Now complain about federal covid response... I enjoyed that.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  14. #2254
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    This - precisely. The Biden "creepy joe" narrative is a pure GOP/Trump tactic now. The people who repeat this, over and over again, while claiming to look for another candidate, are just helping Trump win and this country die - whether on purpose or not.
    Joe was called a creep by the left years before the GOP smear campaign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Now complain about federal covid response... I enjoyed that.
    Not mutually exclusive.

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  15. #2255
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Im not sure if I want to go down the rabbit hole of Joe Biden and racism or not. His 'my black friend' shit is insulting and he co-opt several policies that hurt people who look like me.

    The Klan burned crosses in the town next to where grew up. There's still some spots in that down you avoid if only to keep your own peace. I am not afraid of the Stephan Miller types.

    Systemic racism will still exists with Trump or Biden. Status quo, peace before justice Biden will do same he has done for minorities while he was senator - a whole lot of nothing while asking for support.
    A whole lot of nothing is better than what Trump has done in 4 years reversing all of Obama's policies and dropping reforms that helped minorities. You should be afraid of the Stephen Miller types because only those Klan bozos when he does things like make it that green card holders get fucked during the pandemic it matters to people.

    Do you think the people of Puerto Rico can afford 4 more years of Trump handling hurricane response? How about anyone of color who now has to fight the racists and the justice department instead of them being on opposing sides? There is no equivalency between Trump and Biden when it comes to race. Do I really have to list all the racists policies put in place by Trump and CO? no administration has ever gone after minorities more in our lifetime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Yes, I have. First thing that I count as fairly good evidence is the Larry King call in which is contemporaneous corroboration that SOMETHING happened. The second is she can document without a shred of doubt that she was around Joe Biden at the time of the alleged assault. AND she now has the neighbor as confirmation as well, and prior to that former staff at the time recalling her removal. None of these sorts of things Ford had.

    And I've said time and again, being critical is fine, but right now you guys are being rather selective in when you elect to be critical, seemingly only when its politically convenient. I haven't demanded you believe Tara Reade, I've only demanded consistency from you guys.

    But hey, misrepresenting my words is in fashion, so you do you boo.
    Ford has much more evidence than that and she testified under oath and you still defended Kavanaugh. I will say it again it is amazing that you now believe victims when there was even documented evidence by Kavanaugh's frat buddy that he was a sexual assaulter. But hey if it benefits your guy then it's okay you keep asking for consistency when you have shown none yourself.
    Last edited by Draco-Onis; 2020-05-01 at 03:31 AM.

  16. #2256
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Please list all the other sexual assault charges against Biden. We'll wait.
    Is this seriously a trick question or something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    A whole lot of nothing is better than what Trump has done in 4 years reversing all of Obama's policies and dropping reforms that helped minorities. You should be afraid of the Stephen Miller types because only those Klan bozos when he does things like make it that green card holders get fucked during the pandemic it matters to people.

    Do you think the people of Puerto Rico can afford 4 more years of Trump handling hurricane response? How about anyone of color who now has to fight the racists and the justice department instead of them being on opposing sides? There is no equivalency between Trump and Biden when it comes to race. Do I really have to list all the racists policies put in place by Trump and CO? no administration has ever gone after minorities more in our lifetime.
    I dont think the country can afford either one. Espcially when Joe's only redeeming seems to be "he isn't Trump".

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  17. #2257
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    Found a great summary of the Reade allegations:

    (this is an editorial, not a news article - the story is worth reading for the analysis and conclusions)

    Major media has practically run away from giving these allegations air time and it’s clear why: every time someone does some digging, her story falls apart. Nevertheless toxic elements in our party have continued to try and breathe life into this disaster of a story. Following the same pattern as the ‘mental decline’ narrative which went from ‘Biden has dementia’, to ‘well maybe not dementia but he’s old/frail/something’s not right’, to ‘people are talking about it, so maybe there’s something there’, to ‘it may not be true but he should just address it’, the Reade narrative is playing out just the same way.

    It’s like a 12-step program for disinformation, the goal being to keep the narrative in the ether as long as possible even if it’s just to create doubt. Even if under the guise of being pro-active.

    But just like the mental decline narrative, the Reade story has failed. Instead it’s backfiring on the few who are trying to give it new life. Like a hand grenade being desperately lobbied across the field and blowing up as the needle’s pulled every time. But this isn’t backfiring on Trump and the Republicans. It’s backfiring on *us*. It’s undermining our credibility on the left since ‘the calls are coming from inside the house’. The overwhelming memes and social media posts I see are from those purporting to be left.

    It’s just another message to the base of our party that the lessons of 2016 were not learned.

    Reade pilfered her dead father’s work for her allegations against a presidential candidate. That’s about as low as one can get IMO. There’s nothing for Biden or anyone to address, except Reade. Her 15 minutes are done. Those of us who feel compelled to hand wring over this trainwreck should ignore the toxic, dare I say infectious, fumes on social media. Learn the lessons of 2016. The overwhelming majority of America is focused on who can best lead us to a life free of fearing our next day may be our last, not a Ryan Murphy-esque political intrigue best left for a Netflix binge with box wine.
    Russian ties.
    Cribbing from her father's novel.

    Sexual assault allegations should never be taken lightly, but this whole farce is just ridiculous.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Is this seriously a trick question or something?
    Are you confused by the question? Please list all the pending and former sexual assault charges levied against Biden (and please, please, tell me you understand what that means).

    This is what your ilk does - you bleat and platter on and when push comes to shove, you're no where in sight. Your posting history is full of moves like this - make a claim and then fail to back it up.

  18. #2258
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post

    Are you confused by the question? Please list all the pending and former sexual assault charges levied against Biden (and please, please, tell me you understand what that means).

    This is what your ilk does - you bleat and platter on and when push comes to shove, you're no where in sight. Your posting history is full of moves like this - make a claim and then fail to back it up.
    Im shocked by your inability to use Google and impressed by how far you can burry you head into the sand.

    Lucy Flores
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  19. #2259
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Is this seriously a trick question or something?
    Are you seriously under the impression that there's more than this current one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I dont think the country can afford either one. Espcially when Joe's only redeeming seems to be "he isn't Trump".
    What a cop out.
    Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. --Frank Wilhoit

  20. #2260
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Joe was called a creep by the left years before the GOP smear campaign.
    When? Where? Show us those terms being used against him prior to his VP terms.

    (just a heads-up - you claiming something doesn't make it true, gotta back those allegations with some evidence)

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