Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Zaktar]

Sure, but since I posed my question first, it's only decent for you to try and prove first that there is any difference between Trump and Biden on economic policy.

Hold the campaign promises too btw, those rarely amount to anything.

Larry Summers by the way.

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Why are you so sure Trump is going to get more votes by default than Biden?

75% kept or compromised = rarely amount to anything in your world? Okay...

[Santti]

you seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that if enough people vote third party that third party WINS. or is that concept too much for you to grasp?

You don't accomplish anything by voting for the 3rd party in the US. Might as well as not bother. Other than to feel good about yourself, I guess?

Vote for a 3rd party that mostly agrees with the Republicans? You just helped the Democrats (by siphoning the vote from Republicans).

Vote for a 3rd party that mostly agrees with the Democrats? You just helped the Republicans (by siphoning the vote from the Democrats).

That's how the system works, and is going to work, until a change is made on the system itself. And good luck with that.

[Zaktar]

His most prominent campaign ones were broken.

Less than 48% were kept, the ones nobody really cared about.

23% were compromises.

What is prominent is largely opinion. Let's remember too that this is, as I recall, with 6 years of Republican controlled house and 2 years of (R) Senate. Not an easy situation to govern in, especially since we're in an era of "screw compromise" politics. We're not even talking about the fact that it's really easy to imagine what you'd accomplish and extremely difficult to accomplish it. For example I would have preferred Sanders for President, but you're mad if you think he would have come close to a 75% kept or kinda-kept rate.

[Zaktar]

With 533 promises, only 404 kept or compromised, you can list a lot of failures. Every president has them, and often they are significant. Boy, 533 promises sounds like a lot, a pretty comprehensive agenda.

But hmm, maybe it should be put into perspective.

Let's compare this to someone who actually matters in the campaign, the incumbent:

Donald J Trump: 102 promises made (not bad lil guy)
Kept or compromised: 30

We can't know what a president Biden will be able to accomplish, of course, but we have an idea given that he'll be drawing from a similar talent pool. I think I'll trust that he can get some things done.

[Kasierith]

you seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that if enough people vote third party that third party WINS. or is that concept too much for you to grasp?

Show me a third party candidate that more closely aligns with my political views (capitalist but with essential services provided by the state, in favor of a strong but discriminate presence overseas, liberal in the classic sense, hands off in terms of progressive policies, focused on education reform, conservative government spending). Then show me them with a snowballs chance in hell of winning.

Until then I'll vote for whichever candidate would be a relative positive in terms of their impact on my life

[Zaktar]

Exactly, then add on top of that that he appointed an ultra-conservative economic advisor: Larry Summers.

And we can pretty confidently state that Biden will not perform any better on economic policy than Trump. Or Pelosi for that matter who thinks handing out 1200 dollars one time is going to solve the problem for american families.

When exactly did Biden appoint Larry Summers as his economic advisor? (Talking to a lot of people doesn't make each of them your economic advisor).

Who is we? You and your fellow Trump supporters? So now you people can't even say your guy will do better? I can confidently say Biden is a lot more likely to help the economy than Trump.

[Draco-Onis]

I dont think the country can afford either one. Espcially when Joe's only redeeming seems to be "he isn't Trump".

And I will say it again you must be in a very privileged position where leaving people like Stephen Miller in positions of power doesn't affect you and people you care about.

[Zaktar]

That sounds like a form of denial to me. From Bloomberg (a rather conservative news source): "Former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers is advising Joe Biden’s presidential campaign on economic policy, according to five people familiar with his involvement."


--Denial--

From the original reporting on the subject:

Former U.S. Treasury Secretary Larry Summers, an academic and longtime economic aide to Democratic presidents, is among the people now advising Joe Biden’s presidential campaign, according to two people familiar with the matter.

A Biden adviser who asked not to be named said the campaign “is in touch with a very large and well-rounded informal network of experts” on the economy and public health.

“Joe Biden’s will be the most progressive agenda of any president in generations, and he looks forward to his continuing engagement with progressive leaders to build on his existing policies and further the bold goals driving his campaign,” the adviser said.

Odd, I'm not seeing where he was appointed the chief economic advisor.

And here is Summers after the article you shared, also on Bloomberg:

“Oh, I wouldn’t over-read things. The vice president and I have been friends for a long time and I’m one of many, many people who his campaign talks to but I don’t have any formal relationship to his campaign,” Summers said Friday on Bloomberg Television’s “Wall Street Week.” Summers works as a commentator on Bloomberg Television and “Wall Street Week.”

We have no reason to doubt Summers' word.

Denying that you're a Trump supporter is a bit silly when now that the game is afoot, you're echoing his supporters' arguments and failing to take him to task. Your side is, at best, the "I want to burn it all down" side, you've said as much in this very thread, so don't pretend you're aligned with regular Americans. We have families, we have people we care about, we have reasons to keep our house from burning to the ground, thank you very much.

[Vantrinth]

Denying that you're a Trump supporter is a bit silly when now that the game is afoot, you're echoing his supporters' arguments and failing to take him to task. Your side is, at best, the "I want to burn it all down" side, you've said as much in this very thread, so don't pretend you're aligned with regular Americans. We have families, we have people we care about, we have reasons to keep our house from burning to the ground, thank you very much.

Biden is a segregationist, a homophobe, a warmonger, a corporatist, maybe even a rapist.

It is simply absurd to pretend all people who are not voting for him are Trump supporters.

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My only suspicion in situations like these, when people go against their own interests, is that they've been fed a lot of subtle propaganda by the network of media that solely exists to keep them neatly in line. Their minds filled with nonsense that keeps them dazed and misinformed.

These people don't seem to have considered that they are liberals, who are happily voting for a fundamentally illiberal candidate who spent his entire life working against their interests.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Biden is a segregationist, a homophobe, a warmonger, a corporatist, maybe even a rapist.

Someone's confused Biden with Trump again.

[Zaktar]

Biden is a segregationist, a homophobe, a warmonger, a corporatist, maybe even a rapist.

It is simply absurd to pretend all people who are not voting for him are Trump supporters.

What's simply absurd is to infer that I mean all people not voting for Biden are Trump supporters. I referred to the person I was talking to. Also in this thread are people who genuinely support neither candidate, whose posts clearly demonstrate this.

[Draco-Onis]

Seems like a hollow claim when you keep supporting politicians that seek to impoverish your family.

The way I see it, "moderate Democrats" barely care about their families or loved ones.

And republicans actively don't give a flying fuck about families and loved ones, your posts basically ignore the fact that there are degrees to this.

Your argument: Getting stabbed in the leg is the same as getting burned alive.

[Draco-Onis]

I don't know about you, but I'd rather not get stabbed in the leg nor burned alive.

In this case you have no choice but to choose and you are saying they are the same thing.

[Zaktar]

I don't know about you, but I'd rather not get stabbed in the leg nor burned alive.

Your strategy is to close your eyes and yell "No! No!"

[Vantrinth]

What's simply absurd is to infer that I mean all people not voting for Biden are Trump supporters. I referred to the person I was talking to. Also in this thread are people who genuinely support neither candidate, whose posts clearly demonstrate this.

Well I appreciate the fact that you've clarified that those not voting for Biden are not all Trump supporters. That said it is pretty clear to me Rochana is opposed to neo-liberalism in all forms, and has no right-wing sympathies.

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And republicans actively don't give a flying fuck about families and loved ones, your posts basically ignore the fact that there are degrees to this.

Biden opposed racial integration, homosexuality, lied and plagiarized nakedly and repeatedly during his formative years and earlier presidential runs, seems far too close to white supremacists and Republicans, cheerled for Bush's wars, and is a corporatist that opposes national healthcare.

I am honestly more concerned about Biden than Trump, if only because Trump is too half-witted to do that much and is, at this stage, a known quantity. Both are horrible candidates that should be in jail, but I don't know what you think Biden is going to do for your family.

[Zaktar]

Well I appreciate the fact that you've clarified that those not voting for Biden are not all Trump supporters. That said it is pretty clear to me Rochana is opposed to neo-liberalism in all forms, and has no right-wing sympathies.

I might have agreed a few months ago.

And you feel good about saying: "Yes, Daddy Biden, please stab me in the leg! Thank you for saving me from burning!" ?

You need to be careful with that, they might make a habit out of stabbing you and your loved ones if you don't speak out about it. (They already do.)

At some point saying: "Fuck this stabbing! BURN ME!" becomes the more courageous and right thing to do.

No, it's not what I want, but my available choices are: Vote Trump, Vote Biden, let everyone else decide by either not voting or protest voting. The consequences aren't some abstract nonsense, they're playing out right in front of me right now. Thousands, likely tens of thousands of people are dying who don't need to in this country in part because of people who chose not to participate in the system, who wanted to protest the poor choices available to them (for anyone paying attention - am not arguing that this was the determining factor). Things can get worse, and making some kind of asinine statement isn't worth that tradeoff. It is in no way courageous to condemn people to death over childish rage. Do I want things to change faster than they will under Biden? Definitely. Will voting for Trump or not voting in any way whatsoever help me to achieve my goal of a better future for me and the people I care for? Definitely not. We can't make any progress if we're surrounded by nothing but ash.

[Levelfive]

Do you have any basis at all for the idea that Biden has a different stance on how to handle economic matters than Trump?

Because the general consensus among the american people is that there is no difference between Biden and Trump when it comes to economic policies.

Since you can't back this up--as expected--I'll take it as your admission you're lying.

Again.

Surprising no one.

[Draco-Onis]

Biden opposed racial integration, homosexuality, lied and plagiarized nakedly and repeatedly during his formative years and earlier presidential runs, seems far too close to white supremacists and Republicans, cheerled for Bush's wars, and is a corporatist that opposes national healthcare.

I am honestly more concerned about Biden than Trump, if only because Trump is too half-witted to do that much and is, at this stage, a known quantity. Both are horrible candidates that should be in jail, but I don't know what you think Biden is going to do for your family.

whose alt account are you? because the only people who are floating this narrative are delusional Trump supporters.

[Levelfive]

whose alt account are you? because the only people who are floating this narrative are delusional Trump supporters.

It's so funny how all of these totally brand new accounts are never Trump supporters, but are all just coincidentally so "concerned" about social and economic justice that they can't help but advocate for Trump.

[Felya]

whose alt account are you? because the only people who are floating this narrative are delusional Trump supporters.

The same one that had created new accounts several times a day, for weeks.

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I am honestly more concerned about Biden than Trump, if only because Trump is too half-witted to do that much and is, at this stage, a known quantity. Both are horrible candidates that should be in jail, but I don't know what you think Biden is going to do for your family.

What the current corona death toll?

I’m not a billionaire, Trump has nothing for me. With the current debt we all have to pay soon, who do you think Trump will have pay? Your family, or billionaires like him self?