Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Thepersona]

A highly condensed summary of US 3rd Party history:

1. The "third party" Whigs captured the presidency and other wings of government. It was transformed into republicans. The republican party absorbed the whigs
2. The "third party" Republicans dominated the executive and legislative to this day. See Above
3. The platform of the Progressive Party was incorporated almost in its entirety into the two main parties from 1900-1912. And they did not win the presidency, and they got absorbed into parts of the democratic party/republican party as i've said before.
4. The immediate predecessor of the Progressives, the Populists, also exerted a major influence on both main parties. It obtained 8% of the vote, and then dissapeared.
5. The socialist candidate Eugene Debs, got a million votes in 1920, and is probably the reason you have child labor laws in the US (this was a socialist demand that seemed controversial in that period). And still lost. And part of his platform got absorbed into Roosevelt's new deal.
6. All these parties and others have made significant differences to people's lives nationally when they captured local and state governments over a broad area, and implemented successful policies which were then taken up at federal level. This is patently false
7. The Tea Party had an enormous influence on US politics despite achieving little itself. Tea party was part of the gop obfuscation attempt because of the excess melanin of the past president. They were not independent.

Third parties possess a disproportionate level of threat to elected officials because of the possibility they will displace said elected officials. In the US the common counter-strategy is simply to adopt the policies of the insurgent party-one that is very effective in stopping the third party gain power, but also making it easier to advance a policy agenda with a tiny fraction of votes.

Note that the above ignores far right organizations such as the Know-nothings, the KKK and the Tea Party which exerted considerable influence over government, on the grounds that would allow corporate democrats to pretend I was endorsing the far right.

I'd add: during times of popular upheaval there is a disproportionate level of opportunity for 3rd parties to represent new interests that emerge. This is that time.

So, there's that. You attempt to muddy the waters.

[cors8]

What if you want to help that party get Federal Funding. Then you'd be correct in voting for that party.

Federal funding is meaningless these days. Federal funding won't get you anywhere close to the hundreds of millions being thrown around.

Now, if you make elections federally-funded only, then third parties might have a shot.

[Machismo]

You seem to think it is the tea party twat. I'd go for the Green party guy but that's just me. I like the idea of a president who has had a proper job.

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So why did you say you intend to vote for one?

Nope.... try again.

I'm still waiting on your evidence.

As for me, I've stated that my goal is not to vote for a winning candidate. I'd rather be right, than win. Who are you voting for in November?

[Thepersona]

I don't believe in ideological purity tests. However when it comes to backing a segregationist, a homophobe, a corporatist, a serial plagiarist/liar, maybe even a rapist-I do wonder what is in it for a liberal voting for that guy?, let alone a Sanders supporter. He just seems to literally believe in everything liberals don't.

So you are talking about Trump then?
You know that it was biden the one that went along and said, in national TV that homosexual people should be able to marry, right? And the second bolded part is false.
Again, are you a ruskie troll or what?

[Vantrinth]

So, there's that. You attempt to muddy the waters.

It gets really tiresome when you accuse everyone of bad faith. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here by assuming you aren't actually in favour of segregation, homophobia, warmongering etc all things your candidate did, extend the same courtesy to others.

[Thepersona]

No I don't buy into that line of thinking. Many people would simply stay home, and Biden would be no closer to winning. That could also hurt down ticket races and could still help the GOP.

Sorry but that's a real problem. You vote for third party candidates in a swing state, and you're betraying your ideologies for a stupid purity test.

[Machismo]

Why I'm not insane. LOL ������

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Why I'm not insane. LOL

Awww, shucks, I thought I found a convert. You'd have been the 8th member of our group.

[Vantrinth]

Nope.... try again.

You stated clearly you were going to vote for Justin Amash.

[Machismo]

You stated clearly you were going to vote for Justin Amash.

And, I don't think Justin Amash has a shot in hell of winning. I do plan on voting for him, or possibly another libertarian... or my anarchist buddy (I do love irony).

Who are you voting for?

It seems odd that you refused to answer a question that you just asked.

[Machismo]

I heard Jesse Ventura is trying to get in on the race. I have yet to see a single policy of his, but can't be worse then Trump or Biden.

I'd vote for a table lamp, before I'd vote for Trump.

Fuck that, I'd vote for gonorrhea before I'd vote for him.

[Vantrinth]

So you are talking about Trump then?
You know that it was biden the one that went along and said, in national TV that homosexual people should be able to marry, right? And the second bolded part is false.
Again, are you a ruskie troll or what?

I don't care what he says I care what he does, and Biden voted down homosexuals joining the military (Trump is actually on record saying he was fine with that, for all that is worth). Yes, I call someone who votes down pro-gay initiatives a homophobe.

The Biden of the last six months is woke as hell obviously...unlike the Biden that opposed every progressive issue for the majority of his life. You seem to think because you saw a thirty-second snapshot of a life-long bigot that he had some Road-To-Damascus conversion. I don't believe a word of it. He's a bigot , always was, always will be, that lied through his teeth to get a nomination.

[Machismo]

I don't care what he says I care what he does, and Biden voted down homosexuals joining the military (Trump is actually on record saying he was fine with that, for all that is worth). Yes, I call someone who votes down pro-gay initiatives a homophobe.

The Biden of the last six months is woke as hell obviously...unlike the Biden that opposed every progressive issue for the majority of his life. You seem to think because you saw a thirty-second snapshot of a life-long bigot that he had some Road-To-Damascus conversion. I don't believe a word of it. He's a bigot , always was, always will be, that lied through his teeth to get a nomination.

You keep making all these claims, yet refuse to provide evidence. You said he "is" a segregationist.

You also refuse to say who you are voting for.

[Machismo]

I thought Trump was going to be worse, but luckily he is his own worse enemy. Also kind of refreshing when he at least admits the things the GOP always tapped danced around.

I'm a libertarian, Trump is literally the worst President in history as far as that goes. He's expanded executive powers, trashed the United States Constitution, jacked up spending, attacked businesses, raised the deficits, pushed new taxes, attacked free trade, restricted immigration.

Fuck that racist pile of shit.

[Theodarzna]

I heard Jesse Ventura is trying to get in on the race. I have yet to see a single policy of his, but can't be worse then Trump or Biden.

I wax and wane over who to write in. The split is Tulsi Gabbard for religious reasons, or Marianne Williamson because in the end she never sold out an inch and stuck to her guns, but the two are closest to myself.

I take some issue with Jesse Ventura on his "fiscally conservative and socially liberal" nonsense he used to say about himself. It is bad enough we have two major parties adopting Libertarian poison, one outright predicated upon it, having all four is just rancid.

[Vantrinth]

You keep making all these claims, yet refuse to provide evidence. You said he "is" a segregationist.

For those who apparently don't have televisions, Kamala Harris pressed Biden in the debates on his past history of supporting segregation. He didn't apologize or indicate any shift of his position.


From the NY Times:
About an hour into the debate held June 27, Ms. Harris, a black former prosecutor, leapt into the cross-talk with a request to speak “on the issue of race.” She then trained her attention on Mr. Biden, and after making clear that she did not believe he was a racist, proceeded to sharply criticize him for having made “very hurtful” comments about having worked with two segregationist senators.

Ms. Harris then also recalled Mr. Biden’s opposition to school busing in the 1970s and opened up about her own history. “There was a little girl in California who was a part of the second class to integrate her public schools and she was bused to school every day,” she said. “And that little girl was me.”

Mr. Biden called her remarks “a mischaracterization of my position across the board.” Moments later, he added: “I did not oppose busing in America,” Mr. Biden said. “What I opposed is busing ordered by the Department of Education.”

In reality, Mr. Biden was a leading opponent of busing in the Senate during the 1970s and 1980s, and his opposition went beyond the federal government’s role in the practice.

[Machismo]

For those who apparently don't have televisions, Kamala Harris pressed Biden in the debates on his past history of supporting segregation. He didn't apologize or indicate any shift of his position.


From the NY Times:
About an hour into the debate held June 27, Ms. Harris, a black former prosecutor, leapt into the cross-talk with a request to speak “on the issue of race.” She then trained her attention on Mr. Biden, and after making clear that she did not believe he was a racist, proceeded to sharply criticize him for having made “very hurtful” comments about having worked with two segregationist senators.

Ms. Harris then also recalled Mr. Biden’s opposition to school busing in the 1970s and opened up about her own history. “There was a little girl in California who was a part of the second class to integrate her public schools and she was bused to school every day,” she said. “And that little girl was me.”

Mr. Biden called her remarks “a mischaracterization of my position across the board.” Moments later, he added: “I did not oppose busing in America,” Mr. Biden said. “What I opposed is busing ordered by the Department of Education.”

In reality, Mr. Biden was a leading opponent of busing in the Senate during the 1970s and 1980s, and his opposition went beyond the federal government’s role in the practice.

You said he "IS" a segregationist. Care to back that up?

Meanwhile, you dodged the question again. It's rather sad that you keep editing out comments, how very disingenuous of you.

[Themius]

I wax and wane over who to write in. The split is Tulsi Gabbard for religious reasons, or Marianne Williamson because in the end she never sold out an inch and stuck to her guns, but the two are closest to myself.

I take some issue with Jesse Ventura on his "fiscally conservative and socially liberal" nonsense he used to say about himself. It is bad enough we have two major parties adopting Libertarian poison, one outright predicated upon it, having all four is just rancid.

Religious reasons? That’s not a reason... government is secular.

[Machismo]

I wax and wane over who to write in. The split is Tulsi Gabbard for religious reasons, or Marianne Williamson because in the end she never sold out an inch and stuck to her guns, but the two are closest to myself.

I take some issue with Jesse Ventura on his "fiscally conservative and socially liberal" nonsense he used to say about himself. It is bad enough we have two major parties adopting Libertarian poison, one outright predicated upon it, having all four is just rancid.

Nothing about the two main parties is "adopting Libertarian poison."

I want to know what drugs caused that thought.

[Thepersona]

I don't care what he says I care what he does, and Biden voted down homosexuals joining the military (Trump is actually on record saying he was fine with that, for all that is worth). Yes, I call someone who votes down pro-gay initiatives a homophobe.

The Biden of the last six months is woke as hell obviously...unlike the Biden that opposed every progressive issue for the majority of his life. You seem to think because you saw a thirty-second snapshot of a life-long bigot that he had some Road-To-Damascus conversion. I don't believe a word of it. He's a bigot , always was, always will be, that lied through his teeth to get a nomination.

In the fucking nineties. Context matters you know? It was a compromise with the republicans.

[Vantrinth]

Don't forget his praise of working with some of the most racist senators in US History.

That's actually the most worrying thing about him. That type of old-school racist seems to be the type of mentor/base Biden is associated with-a formative influence. If he never moved past those hideous views then the US is potentially in more danger than it is with Trump.