Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[apeiron1234]

Nate Silver was basically calling them a joke/hacks. That didn't age well in the span of 48 hours.

Say what you will, but it's clear Trafalgar was right. People are lying to the pollsters. Biden was allegedly having a 10 or 12 point lead 2 days ago.

Anybody that actually believed Biden was so far ahead needs a brain scan.

[postman1782]

Maybe you should google your candidate before voting for him.

I have, and if you tell me Robert Byrd was your so called bullshit white nationalist, I am going to fucking LAUGH IN YOUR FACE.

[starlord]

Not even remotely true. Show me a quote where that was said because you're flat out lying now. Also both sides have been making claims of voter fraud and voter suppression. Don't even try to say that the democrats won't try to fight this if he wins. They spent 4 years having a tantrum.

So what you're saying is if once all the votes are tallied and if Trump wins that the democrats will say ok you win? If not, it's exactly the same thing as taking it to the courts. Just stop.

did you even watch trump & bidens speeches just a bit ago?

[Lame Pala]

Anybody that actually believed Biden was so far ahead needs a brain scan.

Wasn't really difficult to believe that Trump voters would disproportionately lie or avoid pollsters due to the (accurate) perception that their views were unacceptable.

[Mihalik]

Obama ran when a glass of water with a D next to their name would have seeped the election. Because back then the economy was at its worse and Bush was hated to the point he was toxic to mccain. Trump has a cult of personality around him that is propping him up.

If going left would help then screaming socialism by the republicans wouldn't work added that Biden's manifesto is more left wing than anything since Carter.

And Trump's manifesto is none existent platitudes and rambling populist drivel, in an economy that's worse than Bush's economy...yet he's winning.

Populism works. And if I have to chose between a populist who is an idealist, but actually believes in things like the law and democracy, I'd take that over an idiot fascist populist.

You can protest as much as you want, but here we are...Centrism is losing twice in a row in the span of 4 years (midst the worst pandemic in a century and the worse economy in decades.)

Again. I wish I was wrong and you were right. But here we are.

[Timester]

Not even remotely true. Show me a quote where that was said because you're flat out lying now. Also both sides have been making claims of voter fraud and voter suppression. Don't even try to say that the democrats won't try to fight this if he wins. They spent 4 years having a tantrum.

So what you're saying is if once all the votes are tallied and if Trump wins that the democrats will say ok you win? If not, it's exactly the same thing as taking it to the courts. Just stop.

No one said such thing on this thread. Only Trump is talking about "Vote Fraud".

[Magical Mudcrab]

Why should Trump? I don't get what you're saying. People are complaining that Trump has been setting up that he won't concede. Biden has been doing the same. Your question makes absolutely no sense to what was presented. Where did I say he lost? However, I will once again state: BOTH sides have made it abundantly clear that they will not concede when it shows a loss.

There's a difference between fighting the results and doing what Trump has done so far: attempting to make voters doubt the electoral process by poisoning the well against Democrats and claiming that fraud is necessarily the cause of his loss, and then, less than two hours ago, stated his intent to have the Supreme Court to force the stop of ballot counting.

What Biden will do is contests the results and then, if he loses the appeal, he will accept the results.
What Trump has done is (1) cast doubt on the electoral process, (2) attempted to manipulate election results by requesting the supreme court stop counting ballots.

Biden is doing something which is normal, Trump is doing something which is abnormal and is, regardless of the outcome, going to be destructive.

[nonameelf]

Kallisto wrote

Somehow Kallisto thinks this is all the fault of socialists despite the fact their candidate was not selected and they have no control over anything the Democrats do.

I'd venture that is was the fault of the corporate democrats who control the party.

Blaming the left when the left has no power is a winning strategy. They do it in the UK and Australia too.

[ohwell]

Lmao they said to not concede until the votes are counted precisely because trump was going to do this dumb shit.

There is no 2 sides to this, trump has shown his intention to win the election even if it means breaking the constitution

That is not even remotely what they said. They said flat out do not concede. Nothing akin to votes. Hillary told him not to concede under any circumstances and Pelosi has echoed it. Nothing about until the votes are counted.

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There's a difference between fighting the results and doing what Trump has done so far: attempting to make voters doubt the electoral process by poisoning the well against Democrats and claiming that fraud is necessarily the cause of his loss, and then, less than two hours ago, stated his intent to have the Supreme Court to force the stop of ballot counting.

What Biden will do is contests the results and then, if he loses the appeal, he will accept the results.
What Trump has done is (1) cast doubt on the electoral process, (2) attempted to manipulate election results by requesting the supreme court stop counting ballots.

Biden is doing something which is normal, Trump is doing something which is abnormal and is, regardless of the outcome, going to be destructive.

Why hasn't he said it? He said flat out that he will declare victory even if the results are contested. Why can't Trump do the same then? You're completely biased and it's hilarious.

[Timester]

And Trump's manifesto is none existent platitudes and rambling populist drivel, in an economy that's worse than Bush's economy...yet he's winning.

Populism works. And if I have to chose between a populist who is an idealist, but actually believes in things like the law and democracy, I'd take that over an idiot fascist populist.

You can protest as much as you want, but here we are...Centrism is losing twice in a row in the span of 4 years (midst the worst pandemic in a century and the worse economy in decades.

Again. I wish I was wrong and you were right. But here we are.

Pretty much.

If Trump wins, then Democrats never got a chance, whoever was the candidate.

[Hinastorm]

Frankly, if Trump wins, I think the idea of American Exceptionalism, and America as leader of the free world dies.

EU should/would need to isolate and freeze out American in all sorts of institutions of power, because a Trump America running unfettered through these institutions could potentially, literally cause a 3rd World War.

China and Russia will cement their recent power on the global stage as the EU will be forced to engage with them because they can no longer rely on the U.S.

And then we're all fucked.

From a domestic point of view as a Democrat - part of me thinks about taking the accelerationist stance not because I want to or think it was the best option.....but because it might be our only viable option left. If we thought Trump was bad this first term, I cannot imagine how much worse he will be in a 2nd. The bigger part of me recognizes that will cause a lot of harm to very vulnerable populations in this country. I don't know. I've been a progressive all my life, but to quote LOTR: "How do men fight against such reckless hate?"

While I want to dope myself up on that hopium, I just don't buy into the accelerationist non-sense.

Like you basically said, this country is fatally flawed. Just because we get another insane 4 years of Trump doesn't mean NOW we're ready to be progressive. I just don't see it.

[starlord]

That is not even remotely what they said. They said flat out do not concede. Nothing akin to votes. Hillary told him not to concede under any circumstances and Pelosi has echoed it. Nothing about until the votes are counted.

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Why hasn't he said it? He said flat out that he will declare victory even if the results are contested. Why can't Trump do the same then? You're completely biased and it's hilarious.

when & where did hillary and pelosi say this exactly?

[apeiron1234]

Wasn't really difficult to believe that Trump voters would disproportionately lie or avoid pollsters due to the (accurate) perception that their views were unacceptable.

And for good reason... It's just funny especially with the democrats that post on this site. Seems like a lot of you don't know what it's like to really struggle.

[nonameelf]

Wisconsin is basically dead even right now.

[ohwell]

No one said such thing on this thread. Only Trump is talking about "Vote Fraud".

They literally said him saying he practically won in the states that are at 94% reporting was manipulation. Also the left is claiming suppression which is essentially another form of voter fraud in that you stop people from voting whereas fraud is either people who can't vote are or votes are being discarded which has already been seen.

[Lame Pala]

Centrism is losing twice in a row in the span of 4 years (midst the worst pandemic in a century and the worse economy in decades.)
.

Not just America, center-left parties got obliterated everywhere in the world.

[Hinastorm]

Pretty much.

If Trump wins, then Democrats never got a chance, whoever was the candidate.

Ya...as much as I want to be all "Hah told you so, should of ran Bernie" I just can't say it with a straight face. It wouldn't of mattered. Turnout was nuts, and that was Bernies potential electoral strength, driving turnout over excitement for him.

I underestimated how much hate for Trump (and love for trump, apparently) was going to drive turnout. I was wrong.

[starlord]

Wisconsin is basically dead even right now.

trump only won it by like 20k votes last time iirc.

[Timester]

They literally said him saying he practically won in the states that are at 94% reporting was manipulation. Also the left is claiming suppression which is essentially another form of voter fraud in that you stop people from voting whereas fraud is either people who can't vote are or votes are being discarded which has already been seen.

Trump is the one that wants to discard votes. Have you been watching any news at all?

[thilicen]

Wisconsin is basically dead even right now.

With the remaining voting county that surely looks like a flip?