1. #25721
    and bidens lead will only increase as more california is counted and the pennsylvania tally

  2. #25722
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eviscero View Post
    Trumphadis storming Detroit counting facilities demanding the count be stopped. Literal fascists folks, out of their holes and in the streets.
    We had voter intimidation yesterday and now we have ciolent rioters trying to stop legal ballots from being counted. When will right wing extremist violence get under control?
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  3. #25723
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    You know, theres actualy a chabce of a hubg election and hung Senate, and then the first female president would be nancy Pelosi by default.

    Now that would be a bombshell.
    There is no scenario in which that would occur. For Nancy Pelosi to be Acting President (she would NOT actually become President), we would have to have no president and no vice president after January 20th, which can't happen. Even if the Electoral College is a tie, the House would be sworn in first and then their first act would be to vote on the President and Vice President (and since they vote by state instead of individually, that would probably give it to Trump).

  4. #25724
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    All that's left is Nevada and/or PA and/or GA and we can call it a day
    NV's and GA's counts have barely moved since early this morning. I wonder if there's something particular going on, or if they're just being extremely careful, what with how contentious this election has already been.

  5. #25725
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Yep.
    Kaiser is one of better sources out there.
    https://archive.thinkprogress.org/wh...-1f2dacdebded/

    Recent polls showing voters do not understand Medicare for All have received a lot of attention. But activists who’ve been working to educate the public on this issue for years aren’t surprised by the findings — and a closer look makes it clear people shouldn’t write off Medicare for All just yet.

    The Kaiser Family Foundation released a poll on Tuesday showing voters don’t know defining features of Medicare for All — including some of the plan’s very popular provisions like the elimination of out-of-pocket costs. Democratic voters know less about it than Republican voters, with only 31% of registered Democrats understanding premiums go away under Medicare for All, as compared to 45% of registered Republicans. The telephone poll tracks with other recent surveys, including one released Monday by Navigator Research.

    Some in the media have described the findings as a clear sign that the policy-turned-mantra is “backfiring,” or that Democrats should “steer clear of Medicare-for-all.” But various organizers who’ve been active in the single-payer movement for years say the polls confirm what they’ve long suspected: voters want Medicare for All and can be persuaded into accepting its possible trade-offs — they just don’t know it yet.

    That’s because the polls also illustrate that the cost of health care is a top priority for voters.

    When asked to define in their own words what health care issues they want to hear about from 2020 candidates, respondents to the Kaiser Family Foundation poll most often mentioned affordability. The Navigator survey also found that voters care more about reducing the costs of premiums, deductibles, and prescription drugs than keeping their current health plan. This suggests voters could be open to some of the trade-offs that come with implementing Medicare for All, as the policy eliminates virtually all private insurance and moves everyone into a singular public health plan with zero out-of-pocket costs.

    Generally speaking, activists told ThinkProgress they’re skeptical of surveys, noting that pollsters are sometimes biased in the way they frame questions. That said, recent polls do highlight one important thing: voters are confused. Activists suspect the public doesn’t always understand Medicare for All because there’s tons of misinformation out there, and a lot of it is being spread by influential parties that benefit from maintaining the status quo.

    “It’s incumbent on us to explain how people’s lives would change under the proposal, but we’re up against some very powerful corporate interests,” said Ken Zinn, political director for National Nurses United.

    The country’s largest union for nurses has hundreds of volunteers who have been knocking on doors to build grassroots support for single payer since the midterm elections ended in November. Across the nation, the group’s volunteers have knocked on 20,000 doors and collected 14,000 signatures since February, according to the New York Times.

    The nurses aren’t alone in their efforts, but work with activists affiliated with other groups, including the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) which launched its single-payer campaign in 2017. Activists are concentrating on legislation recently introduced by Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-WA), a bill similar to one introduced by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) two years ago.

    “A big part of our campaign from the get-go was always to emphasize defining Medicare for All,” said Luke Thibault, a steering committee member with Democratic Socialists for Medicare for All. “Obviously there’s a large corporate campaign against Medicare for All and one of the key strategies has been muddling the meaning."
    “Propaganda works,” said Alex Lawson, the executive director of Social Security Works, another group campaigning for Medicare for All but focusing its outreach on seniors. “That’s why they wield it to protect their literal existence as an industry.”

    There are likely a lot of other factors at work. Health policy is inherently confusing, for example. The last major overhaul to the health system made this clear. A poll from as recent as 2017 showed one-third of Americans thought Obamacare and the Affordable Care Act were different laws.

    There are also other plans with similar sounding names, and activists, along with media outlets, often use the popular phrase to describe something else altogether. Progressive Change Campaign Committee co-founder Adam Green, for example, is comfortable applying the term to proposals that would allow people to buy into the existing Medicare program.

    Sometimes, Democratic politicians don’t correctly describe Medicare for All either, said Jennifer Epps-Addison, president and co-executive director of the Center for Popular Democracy. Sen. Kamala Harris (D-CA) told a town hall in May that “you will be able to keep your doctor” under Medicare for All because “91% of the doctors in the United States are in the Medicare system.” This statement wrongfully implied people are buying into the existing program. After she was repeatedly asked about her support for Medicare for All, Harris eventually said she’d be willing to sign on to more incremental bills. South Bend Mayor, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg (D) told The New York Times he thinks “we need to move toward single-payer. And the way I’ve proposed to do it is a kind of ‘Medicare for all who want it.’” But single payer means moving everyone into one public plan.

    How politicians describe a plan is important because, as Kaiser Family Foundation’s director of public opinion and survey research told HuffPost, voters will sometimes repeat what their favorite politician says when they don’t understand the details of a plan.

    “There are far too many people in the party who are afraid of the insurance lobby and afraid of the pharmaceutical lobby and taking campaign contributions from those lobbies,” Epps-Addison told ThinkProgress, “So rather than standing up boldly and telling constituents what is in this bill and advocating for the health care system we deserve, they are playing the center, opting towards compromise.”

  6. #25726
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    But a vote for a third party is a vote for Trump!!!!111
    Let's be honest, if the Greens actually got on the ballot in Wisconsin Trump would have taken the state.

    The statement is true in the sense that any third party vote away from Democrats would have been a vote for Trump.

  7. #25727
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    Biden just won off independants
    Biden hasn't won. We're getting reports that Trump is trying legal and illegal (storming vote counting centers) methods to take the country.

    And here I was hoping I was wrong predicting violence.

  8. #25728
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    And...that's a smart move in this climate. Keep the platform loose without any explosive issues to scare away possible GOP converts and conservative independents. The goal was to get Trump out.

    Win the election, then legislate in the issues we care about.

    You're looking for a fight that doesn't exist.
    No one is trying to win over Republicans. Not sure where you get that from, considering the increasingly widening partisan divide in this country.
    YEAH NO ONE IS TRYING TO WIN OVER REPUBLICANS GUYS ????

    Again:

    Don't forget deluding themselves into thinking if they keep moving right they can somehow *magically* win over Republicans, even though that's way more of a fantasy than America ever getting single payer healthcare.
    Just wanna repeat that Trump won 93% of Republicans this year, up from 90% in 2016 but we can totally win over Republicans guys if we just keep not supporting single payer healthcare even though 80% of Democratic voters and 70% of Americans support it. Keep shooting ourselves in the foot to win over a non-existent voting group!!!

  9. #25729
    Quote Originally Posted by Eviscero View Post
    Trumphadis storming Detroit counting facilities demanding the count be stopped. Literal fascists folks, out of their holes and in the streets.
    It's literaly 1930s fascist playbook tactic.

  10. #25730
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Biden hasn't won. We're getting reports that Trump is trying legal and illegal (storming vote counting centers) methods to take the country.

    And here I was hoping I was wrong predicting violence.
    Ok fine, Biden will win if ballots are actually counted legally.

  11. #25731
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Because countless experience and the last thirty years confirms that isn't the case. I mean what is it you told me, maybe Universal Health Care in sixty years? Like Leftists are no closer to any sort of goal than the left was during Reagan. Unions are all but dead, hell Perfectly Liberal California just gutted worker protections, by huge margins perfectly Liberal, like OVERWHELMINGLY LIBERAL California just put the boot to neck of workers at the behest of Uber and Lyft. As a fun fact the head of the legal team for uber is Kamala Harris' brother in law, their consultant on their battle with having to respect labor rights is an ex staffer of hers to boot.

    So far the Libs haven't demonstrated they actually friends to these Leftist policies.
    Claiming the uber thing is california killing worker rights is quite the stretch. But you always make such a big deal about how california treats uber drivers, I assume that history masters didn't do much for ya?
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  12. #25732
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I mean what is it you told me, maybe Universal Health Care in sixty years?
    Feel free to quote that. I don't think I've ever given a timeline, but I have been consistent that I view it as a longer term goal that will require a stepping stone approach to ultimately achieve (the ACA being the first step).

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Unions are all but dead, hell Perfectly Liberal California just gutted worker protections, by huge margins perfectly Liberal, like OVERWHELMINGLY LIBERAL California just put the boot to neck of workers at the behest of Uber and Lyft.
    Hey, I'm just as fuckin furious about Prop 22 appearing to pass. It's horse shit and I hate how gig companies flooded the state with money to get that bullshit through. Big reason why I support campaign finance reform, which would extend to ballot measures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    As a fun fact the head of the legal team for uber is Kamala Harris' brother in law, their consultant on their battle with having to respect labor rights is an ex staffer of hers to boot.
    So a guy married to her sister? Why should Harris control what he does or how does his work with Uber harm her?

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    So far the Libs haven't demonstrated they actually friends to these Leftist policies.
    Given that California is pretty much the most progressive state in the US, I think that's a pretty clear signal that it's not all as cut and dry/black and white as progressives would like to believe.

  13. #25733
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    You are better off using Muslims or certain specific nationalities that are Muslim instead of Roma then in that comparison. The Roma at least here in Belgium and The Netherlands are really not on the radar. That's my point, i am aware stereotypes of people are used to turn them into an enemy to get votes, our far right does it.
    Roma people often end up getting asylum in other countries due to treatment. They are made enemies of with crimes being blamed on them and they deal with (in Hungary) disproportionate treatment.

  14. #25734
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Claiming the uber thing is california killing worker rights is quite the stretch. But you always make such a big deal about how california treats uber drivers, I assume that history masters didn't do much for ya?
    No, it's pretty bad. It undoes AB5 and it's written so that it's functionally impossible to repeal (requiring an unheard of 7/8 majority statewide).

  15. #25735
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    YEAH NO ONE IS TRYING TO WIN OVER REPUBLICANS GUYS ????

    Again:



    Just wanna repeat that Trump won 93% of Republicans this year, up from 90% in 2016 but we can totally win over Republicans guys if we just keep not supporting single payer healthcare even though 80% of Democratic voters and 70% of Americans support it. Keep shooting ourselves in the foot to win over a non-existent voting group!!!
    Where are you getting that data? You can't just put "quote" marks around something and it makes it true.

  16. #25736
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Angel of Riots View Post
    And every year new movies break the box office records of the previous years.

    I'm not going to say that the voter turn-out wasn't high, but it isn't a relevant metric.

    What I'm trying to explain here is that there's a big chunk of people who voted Trump -only- because Biden was the Democratic nominee.
    And unless you have evidence for your claim. Posting it is meaningless

  17. #25737
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Now it looks like it's down to Nevada, if Biden wins it - this is it.

    Supreme court and other BS won't really change anything, unless Trump somehow conjures actual valid claim of real massive voting fraud, which I just don't think will happen really. At most there will be recount here and there and what will it change? Couple hundred votes? Couple thousands even? No go there really.

    Not sure why Michigan is not called yet, seems pretty obvious that one.
    Trump supporters are storming the polling places in Detroit trying keep the votes from being counted.

  18. #25738
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    YEAH NO ONE IS TRYING TO WIN OVER REPUBLICANS GUYS ????

    Again:



    Just wanna repeat that Trump won 93% of Republicans this year, up from 90% in 2016 but we can totally win over Republicans guys if we just keep not supporting single payer healthcare even though 80% of Democratic voters and 70% of Americans support it. Keep shooting ourselves in the foot to win over a non-existent voting group!!!
    Yeah, ok, I concede the point. It's a bad strategy and not really indicative of the overall party's though I don't think.

    I don't really disagree with you in that I'd like to see more progressive candidates. I was disappointed when the South went for Biden, but I think it's hard to argue a candidate more divisive would have achieved better results here. Democrats did not underperform, Trump overperformed.

  19. #25739
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonKing View Post
    Trump supporters are storming the polling places in Detroit trying keep the votes from being counted.
    Let’s hope law enforcement arrives and arrests them all

  20. #25740
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    Ok fine, Biden will win if ballots are actually counted legally.
    I'll mostly agree with that. I haven't gone through county by county or anything, but so far, it leans that way.

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