Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Thepersona]

I do wonder about the "progressives" who really want to see the world burn...what will they do if Biden wins? Not only does it mean they don't get to see the world burn but it also means they have to admit that their particular brand of "progressivism" has been completely rebuked by the electorate. I wonder how will they reconcile with a Biden presidency? Will they just full on join the Trump base in sabotage and conspiracy or will they calm their rage and start pushing for their agenda in a constructive manner?

Just a side note -- I'm obviously not talking about Trumpster pretending to be progressives here.

I mean, there's a wing of the left that is all about accelerationism. Electing shittier and shittier capitalist pigs to make a revolution inevitable. Now, i'm interested in that (the revolution part) but i think that making life miserable for decades is not worth it.

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Remember those black bloc riots when Obama was president?

I think that is probably the direction in which you should search for should this scenario which you describe occur.

So sabotage and conspiracy it is.

[Lenonis]

Remember those black bloc riots when Obama was president?

I think that is probably the direction in which you should search for should this scenario which you describe occur.

I feel pretty confident that any scenario you believe in is just about as far away from what is likely as we can get. Internet slacktivism doesn't make for riots. But please, share with us your latest YouTube video of real truth.

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I mean, there's a wing of the left that is all about accelerationism. Electing shittier and shittier capitalist pigs to make a revolution inevitable. Now, i'm interested in that (the revolution part) but i think that making life miserable for decades is not worth it.

Yeah, I don't get that part. Burning down your house doesn't give you a mansion in return. It gives you a smoldering heap of rubble.

The wing of the progressive movement that just wants to cut to the front of the line isn't willing to even consider any sort of incremental approach -- while ignoring that the broad swatches of differing political views make a "revolution" nearly impossible. The leap from "we can't muster enough support to get a candidate through a primary" to "we will gain enough support to basically overthrow the government" is just mind boggling.

That all being said I'm admittedly much more of a pragmatist so idealism is a bit foreign to me at times.

[Milchshake]

I feel pretty confident that any scenario you believe in is just about as far away from what is likely as we can get. Internet slacktivism doesn't make for riots. But please, share with us your latest YouTube video of real truth.

Actually the opposite is true.

Most of these contrarian posters and Chapo types complained loudly that Antifa and other Protest groups were being too mean to the Tim Pooles and Andy Ngos of the world.

These guys love authoritarians. They wish they could wield power like a Putin and a Castro. What would they do with all that power?

"Teach those Dems a lesson" of course!

[Thepersona]

Yeah, I don't get that part. Burning down your house doesn't give you a mansion in return. It gives you a smoldering heap of rubble.

The wing of the progressive movement that just wants to cut to the front of the line isn't willing to even consider any sort of incremental approach -- while ignoring that the broad swatches of differing political views make a "revolution" nearly impossible. The leap from "we can't muster enough support to get a candidate through a primary" to "we will gain enough support to basically overthrow the government" is just mind boggling.

That all being said I'm admittedly much more of a pragmatist so idealism is a bit foreign to me at times.

Yo uhave a point. The problem with them is that they know that any sort of incremental approach makes a revolution less likely. I'd love a global revolution and incarcerating capitalist pigs in towers. But again, enduring 20-30 years of a crappy life is not worth it (IF i make it to said revolution, in those circumstances).

[Thepersona]

Actually the opposite is true.

Most of these contrarian posters and Chapo types complained loudly that Antifa and other Protest groups were being too mean to the Tim Pooles and Andy Ngos of the world.

These guys love authoritarians. They wish they could wield power like a Putin and a Castro. What would they do with all that power?

"Teach those Dems a lesson" of course!

Yeah... True lefties (like, actual socialists, Red and black blocs and actual communists) know that even if revolution is not possible, incremental upgrades in QOL for the working class is an actual good thing.

[cubby]

You have a point. I'd add Sanders as secretary of health, just to make the start of the transition to M4A. But this is a pet peeve.

I would definitely do that as well. I'm sure Biden is offering him just about anything right now. He needs the Democratic Party united coming into August.

[Lenonis]

Oh god now they are talking to each other. Cleanup on aisle 3 needed!

[cubby]

Oh god now they are talking to each other. Cleanup on aisle 3 needed!

Lol I was having the same general thought.

People are hassling Biden for not being "out there" enough (which is funny on it's own given the coronapocalypse). But I think it benefits Biden to make moves behind the scenes, get his campaign staff up and in place, get the money flowing in, set up Obama's piece of the campaign, and just get set up for a huge rush after the convention.

[Milchshake]

Bernie 4 Postmaster General

Seriously, USPS needs a lot of help.

• A public Mail Carrier is essential for any Social Democracy.
• Promote and underwrite Vote By Mail.
• Follow the Gillibrand plan and use the USPS to create a Public Bank.
• Name as many Post Offices as he likes.

[Thepersona]

Bernie 4 Postmaster General

Seriously, USPS needs a lot of help.

• A public Mail Carrier is essential for any Social Democracy.
• Promote and underwrite Vote By Mail.
• Follow the Gillibrand plan and use the USPS to create a Public Bank.
• Name as many Post Offices as he likes.

I dont know if you're trolling, but this actually might be a good idea, and help democratic and progressive causes in the long therm.

[jonnysensible]

Joes kid is a massive liability

Good open source stuff.

[Milchshake]

Another progressive major group endorsed Biden today: 2020.indivisible.org.

We’re proud to announce that we’re endorsing
@Joebiden
for President. American Democracy cannot survive another Trump term, but this isn’t just about beating him. It’s about paving the way for a new vision for the future. Join us: http://2020.indivisible.org

[Sunseeker]

Joes kid is a massive liability

Good open source stuff.

All we have to do is do the same thing Republicans are doing: not give two fucks.

ALL the Trump kids are profiting massively off their father being President. And Republicans don't give two flying fucks. That's their answer, to just stuff their fingers in their ears. No matter how much we screech about Trump's kids, they just got LALALALALALAL!!!! As much as it horrifyingly sucks to have to do so, we need to do exactly the same when Republicans bring up Hunter.

The rules for this election are the same rules this board has: DONT FEED THE TROLLS.

[cubby]

Joes kid is a massive liability

Good open source stuff.

Not so much. I'm not sure why you are still holding onto the issue that was resolved by GOP Senators and deemed "[nothing wrong]".

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All we have to do is do the same thing Republicans are doing: not give two fucks.

ALL the Trump kids are profiting massively off their father being President. And Republicans don't give two flying fucks. That's their answer, to just stuff their fingers in their ears. No matter how much we screech about Trump's kids, they just got LALALALALALAL!!!! As much as it horrifyingly sucks to have to do so, we need to do exactly the same when Republicans bring up Hunter.

The rules for this election are the same rules this board has: DONT FEED THE TROLLS.

And then part two is the above. We MUST play by the same rules as the GOP. Period.

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Joes kid is a massive liability

Good open source stuff.

I mean, seriously? This is the author's conclusion:

This may have been true till now, but as I have revealed, a Burisma oil subsidiary based in Crimea has continued to operate (from Russia) during Hunter Biden’s time on the Burisma board. There are also questions Burisma directors benefiting from funds linked to embezzlement.

So possibly maybe [sic hopefully] not-sure-but-well-I-don't-know Hunter got some money he didn't know was embezzled.

The answer to this entire line of inquiry should be: "Oh, isn't that the issue Trump was Impeached on?" End of conversation.

[Levelfive]

Joes kid is a massive liability

Good open source stuff.

Unless he's planning on giving him a White House job and / or putting him in charge of peace in the Middle East and / or the pandemic response, I really don't understand why his--or any candidate's--kid would be a liability, but now it's his former employer's former subsidiary that was connected with an account that was used to pay Hunter Biden, and that makes Hunter Biden a liability to Joe Biden? On another note, Hunter Biden had a much better resume for that job than I realized.

[Theodarzna]

Yo uhave a point. The problem with them is that they know that any sort of incremental approach makes a revolution less likely. I'd love a global revolution and incarcerating capitalist pigs in towers. But again, enduring 20-30 years of a crappy life is not worth it (IF i make it to said revolution, in those circumstances).

Incrementalism is a terrible idea because so far there hasn't been a push for Quality of Life improvements. Obama's recovery was not particularly good for a great many people; and the fact that Biden intends to place Larry Summers and Jamie Diamond in charge of the economy suggest that whatever is being incrementaled towards, isn't really a good thing.

That and the issue of time. Look, I'm not getting younger and you have posters like Edge- saying Universal Healthcare basically won't happen in my lifetime and in many situations like Climate Change we actually have a really short time limit. Look, if the schtick of "Vote Democrat and in 60 years we will get around to those big ticket universal social programs" then why the hell vote for them now? Why wait? Again, I'm not exactly getting younger.

Plus, why Incrementalism in America where other countries have achieved these programs with less money, less technology and way quicker.

[cubby]

I'm glad to see that I convinced you to drop the "let's have higher standards than the enemy"-principles which you so heavily defended when I suggested the Democratic Party should break all the rules to see Trump removed from office.

This is how I know that despite strong short-term objections my words still do rub off on people in the longterm.

Looking over your posting history, you really haven't done much of anything - outside of provide some much needed comic relief. But you keep patting yourself on the back; keep on being you. Trump is counting on it.

[Thepersona]

Incrementalism is a terrible idea because so far there hasn't been a push for Quality of Life improvements. Obama's recovery was not particularly good for a great many people; and the fact that Biden intends to place Larry Summers and Jamie Diamond in charge of the economy suggest that whatever is being incrementaled towards, isn't really a good thing.

That and the issue of time. Look, I'm not getting younger and you have posters like Edge- saying Universal Healthcare basically won't happen in my lifetime and in many situations like Climate Change we actually have a really short time limit. Look, if the schtick of "Vote Democrat and in 60 years we will get around to those big ticket universal social programs" then why the hell vote for them now? Why wait? Again, I'm not exactly getting younger.

Plus, why Incrementalism in America where other countries have achieved these programs with less money, less technology and way quicker.

I mean, Obama was with the hands tied and did as much as he could for the american people. You need to remember that the republicans still existed on that time, and that he, having a lot of melanin didnt help to enact more progressive causes (ffs, he was depicted as a pinko commie muslim by the right).

[Theodarzna]

I mean, Obama was with the hands tied and did as much as he could for the american people. You need to remember that the republicans still existed on that time, and that he, having a lot of melanin didnt help to enact more progressive causes (ffs, he was depicted as a pinko commie muslim by the right).

Obama had complete power for two years and still tapped Larry Summers and ditched the public option. He also didn't fight for those big ticket items. We can back and forth on this stuff, but in general incrementalism is a terrible position to hold. One it requires people to seriously believe marginal improvement even is happening and given the plan by Obama to pass TPP/TTIP, and Clinton getting NAFTA through (Hell he even planned to end Social Security had Lewinsky not saved the day), I am not convinced this party is sold on incrementalism towards anything good. I think the call for "Incrementalism" is an illusion, PR and a slogan, but not materially real.

[Machismo]

Obama had complete power for two years and still tapped Larry Summers and ditched the public option. He also didn't fight for those big ticket items. We can back and forth on this stuff, but in general incrementalism is a terrible position to hold. One it requires people to seriously believe marginal improvement even is happening and given the plan by Obama to pass TPP/TTIP, and Clinton getting NAFTA through (Hell he even planned to end Social Security had Lewinsky not saved the day), I am not convinced this party is sold on incrementalism towards anything good. I think the call for "Incrementalism" is an illusion, PR and a slogan, but not materially real.

No, that's a fucking lie. The Dems only had control for a couple months, and even then, they still needed 60 people in the Senate to bring things to a vote. They had to compromise before they could even get it up for a vote.