Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Themius]

Centrist democrats did themselves no favors by coming out so hard against liberals so quickly. But currently they have enough power that they can afford the loss. All we can do for now is to suck it up.

What you said is exactly correct. We need to build up our base, and this will take probably around a decade, maybe a BIT less.

One critique the DNC goes where the votes lead them while also saying where the polices go is too far left meanwhile the policies have 70%+ support...

[kaelleria]

Dude if messaging was important explain trump voters. Was his message not clear?

Trump had 0 policies, but he was great at branding Democrats as the enemy.

They were swayed by his populist message and constant messaging that democrats wanted to turn the country into a socialist regime that wanted to abolish the police... Which we walked right in to due to people like Sanders and AOC.

Republican strategists even admit this....

What's beyond debate is that Republican strategists took comments made by liberals within the Democratic Party and used them to blast everyone from Spanberger on down. As Parker Poling, the lead staffer at the House Republican campaign arm, told me on Thursday about the messaging that worked for her side in the election:
"If you put all of the messages into a single broad category, it would be the extreme leftward lurch of the Democrat Party. That was messaged in different ways in different districts. In New York state, bail reform was extremely unpopular and meshed well with defund the police, so a public safety angle was the most effective. In some districts, it was 'Medicare for All' and the loss of private health insurance. In a number of suburban districts, we talked about pocketbook issues like higher taxes under Biden. And in other districts, we focused on the extremism of the 'Green New Deal.' And in south Florida especially, it was socialism more broadly. All of those messages fit within the rubric of extremism."

[TACOshake]

People also need to remember Trump is a turnout machine too...

We don't know what turnout will look like in 2022, but I don't think R's turnout nearly as many lower propensity voters.

Unfortunately the same thing goes for democrats too.

We won in 2018 by running to the district, I don't know why people are so obsessed with running on messaging that's not broadly popular.

Im wondering how much of this is based on his celebrity? He's been a b level celebrity for almost 50 years. The last 10-15 years of that was a very positive portrayal on NBC.

We have to be honest, America is very much in love with celebrities, even the really dumb ones.

As much as I personally want a policy wonk in the office, candidates like Warren will never get there. Dems would be better off nominating Dave Bautista in 2024 or 2028. Or have other candidates season themselves on the WWE for awhile.
Pete and others better start bulking up! We need some progressive Luchadoros.

[kaelleria]

Im wondering how much of this is based on his celebrity? He's been a b level celebrity for almost 50 years. The last 10-15 years of that was a very positive portrayal on NBC.

We have to be honest, America is very much in love with celebrities, even the really dumb ones.

As much as I personally want a policy wonk in the office, candidates like Warren will never get there. Dems would be better off nominating Dave Bautista in 2024 or 2028. Or have other candidates season themselves on the WWE for awhile.
Pete and others better start bulking up! We need some progressive Luchadoros.

All of our winners since I've been alive have done one of two things...

They've connected with people on an emotional level or have excited people... That's really all the matters when it comes to winning the presidency.

[Themius]

Im wondering how much of this is based on his celebrity? He's been a b level celebrity for almost 50 years. The last 10-15 years of that was a very positive portrayal on NBC.

We have to be honest, America is very much in love with celebrities, even the really dumb ones.

As much as I personally want a policy wonk in the office, candidates like Warren will never get there. Dems would be better off nominating Dave Bautista in 2024 or 2028. Or have other candidates season themselves on the WWE for awhile.
Pete and others better start bulking up! We need some progressive Luchadoros.

When was Pete Buttigieg ever progressive?

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Oh no, progressive candidates and policy gain more and more support every two years.

But what about the Moderates?

They keep losing seats to red Moderates! What do we we???

We plan the Progressives even though without their support we'd be even deeper trouble.

Anything else?

Yes, keep trying to appeal to the red Moderates. Even though it hasn't worked since Reagan we will keep trying! They will vote for us eventually.

@Skroe is laughing at the self sabotage while thanking you for taking out his party's trash in time for 2022 and 2024.

Basically.

The first thing establishment thinks they need to do is move further right to court lincoln project types and red democrats... that's an assured win for republicans in 2022 and 2024 as this election was won by the large number of minorities voting for democrats. What happens when you demoralise them by saying we need to appease people who backed a fucking Stochastic terrorist who called on white terror groups to intimidate voters?

[SavoirFaire]

Dude if messaging was important explain trump voters. Was his message not clear?

How many even noticed his message? Between the guaranteed red votes (single issue or what have you), the cult of personality types, and those that just want to see the entire system burned to the ground, what is really left?

[Themius]

That's false.

Connor Lamb won reelection in an R+3 district, Spanzberger won in a traditionally R+6 district. Kara Eastman lost her election in a D+10 district.

The list people are throwing around paints a very misleading picture as the winners are all in safe blue districts that have been blue for ages where the losers are in traditional republican districts.

There may be some merit to the digital organizing portion of what AOC was trying to say, but trying to force M4A will result in more lost elections. Every district is different and members need to run to the district. Running to the NYT to bash fellow democrats is the opposite of good strategy for actually maintaining your majority.

M4A has majority support. So what you're saying is BS, and Spanberger...

Spanberger, in answering the debate question, only briefly addressed a single-payer system. She spent most of her energy calling for the passage of Medicare X, a health care proposal that would give people under 65 an option: They could remain privately insured, or buy into a new government-run program that would use the network of Medicare providers and costs. The Medicare system is now reserved for elderly and disabled citizens.

Brat focuses on one clause in Spanberger’s answer. Here’s a fuller excerpt of her remarks.

"I support Medicare X, which is a public option as a path towards universal coverage in the achievement of universal coverage. I believe that a public option is the way that we can achieve that goal through government-provided insurance that does, in fact, build off the existing Medicare network, because it exists in every single zip code across the country and that is the way we can achieve health care for everyone. And I do, in principle, support single-payer, but I believe universal coverage through a public option is the method I would pursue."

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How many even noticed his message? Between the guaranteed red votes (single issue or what have you), the cult of personality types, and those that just want to see the entire system burned to the ground, what is really left?

I felt his message was clear when he "fine people on both sides" described himself as a nationalist. Told Americans to "go back to where they come from", called on white terror groups to intimidate voters.

These are simply things his based doesn't give a shit about, and apparently, democrats need to court these deplorable people while abandoning their pursuit of fairness and justice. Just put lgbt rights, systemic racism and all on the backburner while we try to win the support of people who want to ban gay marriage (and has scotus) and couldn't give a shit about systemic racism.

Latte Liberals are what they call them, isn't it...

[kaelleria]

M4A has majority support. So what you're saying is BS, and Spanberger...

No... Justice Dems/DSA are specifically citing support for Sanders M4A bill, not a public option type plan.

[Themius]

No... Justice Dems/DSA are specifically citing support for Sanders M4A bill, not a public option type plan.

Did you ignore the rest of that Stanberger where they explicitly state the goal is to move to universal?

Constantly seeking to go for compromises is what fucked the democrats over.

You know why we don't have single payer? You know why ACA didn't get expanded do you recall why? Democrats could have done and Chuck Schumer admitted this himself, they thought if they passed ACA that was basically a conservative bill that the republicans would have worked along with them to expand it until they got single-payer. So they passed this compromise as a way to quell republicans while they expanded it though working together.

Well you see the fucking outcome... so not more of that bullshit, it doesn't work they do not fucking care...

[arandomuser]

lol trump takes credit for stock marking jumping...after biden won, alot of my stocks are way ahead, and its real estate, because "abolishing the suburbs" aka land zoning reform, means huge increase in housing supply

so im pretty happy today i just hope he gets the policy through

[Thepersona]

Im wondering how much of this is based on his celebrity? He's been a b level celebrity for almost 50 years. The last 10-15 years of that was a very positive portrayal on NBC.

We have to be honest, America is very much in love with celebrities, even the really dumb ones.

As much as I personally want a policy wonk in the office, candidates like Warren will never get there. Dems would be better off nominating Dave Bautista in 2024 or 2028. Or have other candidates season themselves on the WWE for awhile.
Pete and others better start bulking up! We need some progressive Luchadoros.

The Rock in a democrat ticket would be a turnout machine, let me tell you that.

[kaelleria]

I felt his message was clear when he "fine people on both sides" described himself as a nationalist. Told Americans to "go back to where they come from", called on white terror groups to intimidate voters.

These are simply things his based doesn't give a shit about, and apparently, democrats need to court these deplorable people while abandoning their pursuit of fairness and justice. Just put lgbt rights, systemic racism and all on the backburner while we try to win the support of people who want to ban gay marriage (and has scotus) and couldn't give a shit about systemic racism.

Latte Liberals are what they call them, isn't it...

Regretfully racism and stupidity are alive and well in the US...

No one is saying court republicans at the cost of our values, what we're saying is don't message to the point where it hurts other caucus members.

[Underverse]

May want to start with not disenfranchising the left ideas that are so popular it’ll just lead to an assured trumpy win in the future

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Progressives UNSEATED a number of moderates.

In swing counties?

[Mormolyce]

All of this sounds wild when Biden won by 4+ million votes nationally and flipped red state strong holds like AZ, GA, and damn near flipped Texas. The American method of electing representatives and presidents is absolutely batshit insane.

At the end of the day, the reality is that Democrats have to pander to rural voters and they're rarely rewarded for doing so. They would collapse as a party and never win another presidency again if they stopped pandering to them though (see Hillary's defeat in 2016).

Well it'd be nice if the popular vote, ie the actual vote, counted for something. But back in reality, Biden failed spectacularly in FL and OH, the two biggest swing states, and just managed to nose in in a nailbiter in PA and AZ. The biggest news is he flipped two states that Hillary thought she could take for granted...

Meanwhile it's neck and neck in the Senate. You will never in your life see a candidate as weak as Donald Trump, at least according to the establishment Dem theory. Four years of own goals, fucked up a virus outbreak that's killed thousands, failed to deliver any of his election promises, spent every minute of every day alienating anyone who wasn't a dyed in the wool Republican. But this is the best Biden could do against him? At least when Hillary lost you could tell yourself that the public didn't know what it was getting into (which I don't believe for a moment, he showed the world exactly who he is through his entire campaign).

[Shadowferal]

Progressives UNSEATED a number of moderates.

A few compared to something like 20.
Nothing to go wold.
And obviously the teason why "progressives" are getting the cold shoulder from the dnc.

[Underverse]

Dude if messaging was important explain trump voters. Was his message not clear?

Are you seriously arguing that the way a message is delivered is not important?

[kaelleria]

Well it'd be nice if the popular vote, ie the actual vote, counted for something. But back in reality, Biden failed spectacularly in FL and OH, the two biggest swing states, and just managed to nose in in a nailbiter in PA and AZ. The biggest news is he flipped two states that Hillary thought she could take for granted...

Meanwhile it's neck and neck in the Senate. You will never in your life see a candidate as weak as Donald Trump, at least according to the establishment Dem theory. Four years of own goals, fucked up a virus outbreak that's killed thousands, failed to deliver any of his election promises, spent every minute of every day alienating anyone who wasn't a dyed in the wool Republican. But this is the best Biden could do against him? At least when Hillary lost you could tell yourself that the public didn't know what it was getting into (which I don't believe for a moment, he showed the world exactly who he is through his entire campaign).

Trump and Republicans brought out more voters for their side than literally any other candidate ever... Other than Joe Biden. We need to stop saying Trump was a weak candidate.

[Mormolyce]

Biden's strength is in compromise. Especially if the Senate stays red, that's what we'll need in order to get anything at all done.

If you think you will find a compromise with Mitch McConnell, I have 12 years of counter-evidence to show you lol.

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Trump and Republicans brought out more voters for their side than literally any other candidate ever... Other than Joe Biden. We need to stop saying Trump was a weak candidate.

This is exactly my point, by the logic of appealing to the middle, Trump should've been the worst performing candidate in history. He wasn't.

The logic is wrong.

[Shadowferal]

Are you seriously arguing that the way a message is delivered is not important?

"Defund the police" was a real winner. /s

[Underverse]

Well it'd be nice if the popular vote, ie the actual vote, counted for something. But back in reality, Biden failed spectacularly in FL and OH, the two biggest swing states, and just managed to nose in in a nailbiter in PA and AZ. The biggest news is he flipped two states that Hillary thought she could take for granted...

Meanwhile it's neck and neck in the Senate. You will never in your life see a candidate as weak as Donald Trump, at least according to the establishment Dem theory. Four years of own goals, fucked up a virus outbreak that's killed thousands, failed to deliver any of his election promises, spent every minute of every day alienating anyone who wasn't a dyed in the wool Republican. But this is the best Biden could do against him? At least when Hillary lost you could tell yourself that the public didn't know what it was getting into (which I don't believe for a moment, he showed the world exactly who he is through his entire campaign).

Weakness of a candidate is more than tangible failure. Trump made up for his real weaknesses with force of personality which appealed to his base in a way that no Republican president has ever done. A more boring candidate with more policy successes may end up being a weaker candidate - I think it's too early to say.