Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Underverse]

Well it'd be nice if the popular vote, ie the actual vote, counted for something. But back in reality, Biden failed spectacularly in FL and OH, the two biggest swing states, and just managed to nose in in a nailbiter in PA and AZ. The biggest news is he flipped two states that Hillary thought she could take for granted...

Meanwhile it's neck and neck in the Senate. You will never in your life see a candidate as weak as Donald Trump, at least according to the establishment Dem theory. Four years of own goals, fucked up a virus outbreak that's killed thousands, failed to deliver any of his election promises, spent every minute of every day alienating anyone who wasn't a dyed in the wool Republican. But this is the best Biden could do against him? At least when Hillary lost you could tell yourself that the public didn't know what it was getting into (which I don't believe for a moment, he showed the world exactly who he is through his entire campaign).

Weakness of a candidate is more than tangible failure. Trump made up for his real weaknesses with force of personality which appealed to his base in a way that no Republican president has ever done. A more boring candidate with more policy successes may end up being a weaker candidate - I think it's too early to say.

[Mormolyce]

I'm currently enjoying all the Republicans threatening to leave the country under Trump's latest boomer ragetweet:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...11603157159942

At least I think they're Republicans, either that or elaborate trolls, it's impossible to tell really.

[Underverse]

If you think you will find a compromise with Mitch McConnell, I have 12 years of counter-evidence to show you lol.

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This is exactly my point, by the logic of appealing to the middle, Trump should've been the worst performing candidate in history. He wasn't.

The logic is wrong.

I'm still hoping that McConnell will compromise. We'll see how far he's willing to take Republican obstruction with an objectively moderate president. Biden isn't Obama, and Biden and McConnell have known each other for a long time. Maybe I'm being naive, but until the first couple of months of Biden's presidency pass I don't think we can say for sure that we're heading for gridlock.

[Mormolyce]

Weakness of a candidate is more than tangible failure. Trump made up for his real weaknesses with force of personality which appealed to his base in a way that no Republican president has ever done. A more boring candidate with more policy successes may end up being a weaker candidate - I think it's too early to say.

That would imply his natural base, ie hardcore racists, is larger than democrats plus swing voters combined.

Which I doubt, but if true renders all hope moot anyway. No, I think a much simpler answer is that constantly appealing to the middle by having wishy-washy policies and dull candidates fails to entire anyone, swing voter or hardcore Democrat. There is simply nothing in it for them.

[Belize]

I'm currently enjoying all the Republicans threatening to leave the country under Trump's latest boomer ragetweet:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...11603157159942

At least I think they're Republicans, either that or elaborate trolls, it's impossible to tell really.

It's bots. You see the same message copy pasted with a few different things changed like:
-Time in the U.S.
-Destination (England, Mexico, Hawaii (yes really))

[Mormolyce]

I'm still hoping that McConnell will compromise.

I really don't know what to tell you, it's literally the one and only thing his career rests on. You'd have more luck hoping he decides he doesn't need oxygen.

[kaelleria]

That would imply his natural base, ie hardcore racists, is larger than democrats plus swing voters combined.

Which I doubt, but if true renders all hope moot anyway. No, I think a much simpler answer is that constantly appealing to the middle by having wishy-washy policies and dull candidates fails to entire anyone, swing voter or hardcore Democrat. There is simply nothing in it for them.

Policies don't matter... Being able to message off of defund the police, green new deal/m4a/socialism is what pushed people to Trump.

[Mormolyce]

It's bots. You see the same message copy pasted with a few different things changed like:
-Time in the U.S.
-Destination (England, Mexico, Hawaii (yes really))

Yes I was wondering if that one was a troll, or someone really that stupid. They don't seem to know Puerto Rico is a state either so it's hard to tell.

[Breccia]

They don't seem to know Puerto Rico is a state either so it's hard to tell.

Um...you might want to take another swing at that one.

[Mormolyce]

Policies don't matter... Being able to message off of defund the police, green new deal/m4a/socialism is what pushed people to Trump.

You could literally push for renaming America the Third Reich and they would still call you socialists. There is no amount of moving to the right that will help with that.

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Um...you might want to take another swing at that one.

Territory, you pedant.

[kaelleria]

You could literally push for renaming America the Third Reich and they would still call you socialists. There is no amount of moving to the right that will help with that.

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Territory, you pedant.

Don't move to the right at all, just don't shoot yourself in the foot with messaging.

[Shadowferal]

You could literally push for renaming America the Third Reich and they would still call you socialists. There is no amount of moving to the right that will help with that.

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Territory, you pedant.

That's "Commonwealth" says I, the pedant.

[kaid]

You could literally push for renaming America the Third Reich and they would still call you socialists. There is no amount of moving to the right that will help with that.

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Territory, you pedant.

It is not pedantic there is a world of difference between a state and a territory most noticeably 2 senators and the normal battery of reps.

[Mormolyce]

That's "Commonwealth" says I, the pedant.

Pffft, "Commonwealth" is an utterly meaningless term.

And I live in one :P

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It is not pedantic there is a world of difference between a state and a territory most noticeably 2 senators and the normal battery of reps.

You don't need to tell me about the differences, it's pedantry because the distinction is irrelevant to the current discussion.

Excuse the pedantry, but that's what pedantry is :P

[Themius]

Regretfully racism and stupidity are alive and well in the US...

No one is saying court republicans at the cost of our values, what we're saying is don't message to the point where it hurts other caucus members.

Right now most of that hurting other members is coming from the moderates attacking progressives

[starlord]

I've also seen Alaska.

alaskans do love their free money tho. by all rights they ought to be a blue state... but for the guns.

i'd be ok if all trumpers moved to alaska, theres a lot of weird communes where they'd fit right in.

[warvings]

And yet Biden is going to struggle to get any kind of public option passed, and will probably content himself with trying to repair some of the damage Trump has done to Obamacare, leaving Americans no better off than they were four years ago.

Why? Because Hillary tanked the 2016 election, and Biden barely scraped in in 2020, leaving you with at best a slender majority in the Senate (or just as likely, none), plus three Supreme Court seats taken from you. Both of those candidates ran on the establishment's brilliant plan, and look what it got you. It'll just be Obama all over again - promise hope and change, find yourself unable or unwilling to deliver it, lose your advantages in Congress in the midterms and be paralysed for the rest of your time in office. Fucking brilliant plan. Only Biden is nowhere near as popular as Obama and will struggle to make a second term, if he even lives that long.

This genius plan of promising voters nothing leaves you treading water at best.

I don't understand how Hillary tanked the election. It's people who vote and they either voted for Trump or decided he was good enough not to oppose.
It is the same thing with Biden. Only way one tanks an election is by doing things that Trump and GOP did in 2016 primary.
I also don't understand how you say progressive would do better in this election when with record turnouts the most progressive candidate on the ballot lost. But if an even more progressive candidate was on ballot somehow even more people will vote. Are you saying that people voted or chose not to oppose a conservative because they wanted a true progressive, not a moderate and are okay delaying anything progressive or going backwards for next 4, 6, ... Years instead of moving forward.

[kaelleria]

Right most lost of that hurting other members is coming from the moderates attacking progressives

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Right now most of that hurting other members is coming from the moderates attacking progressives

No, it's not.

It's coming from AOC and other far leftward groups.

Spanzberger's words got leaked from a private call... AOC/DSA/Justice Dems went on blast publicly.

There's a big difference.

[Themius]

Are you seriously arguing that the way a message is delivered is not important?

It isn’t... not for republicans or have you not been paying attention?

[starlord]

Right now most of that hurting other members is coming from the moderates attacking progressives

because progressives hurt the party this past election. they need to remember not everyone is in a true blue state where you can be as ideologically pure as you want.