1. #3201
    Quote Originally Posted by cors8 View Post
    That makes absolutely no sense. Family leave policies, healthcare policies, etc. do not affect private sector workers?
    Here in the UK, left wing parties traditionally sell themselves as parties of the working class.

    In reality though, they place focus on public sector workers and do very little for private sector workers.

    This isn't enough to gain a majority voting base, so they then place focus on welfare recipients, minority groups, and everybody else EXCEPT the private sector working class.

    This is a HUGE reason why populism is strife.

    Private sector workers get extremely annoyed at seeing their taxes go towards everybody else.

    From what I've seen, this is a broadly similar situation in the USA, and why Trump won in the first place.

    That's the reason why I think he'll win again.

    That's a stigma movement currently happening with the left in the USA. Anybody who votes Trump are being called deplorables.

    Working class, middle class and upper private sector working classes are far from deplorables, they know they aren't deplorables, many being highly skilled workers, so they figure that the left, in general, are liars.

    This further fuels populism.

    I'll be amazed if many of those majority groups vote Biden.

    When Trump wins again, the left will do what i see them usually doing. They will come up with a load of excuses why they didn't win.

    And not one of these excuses will hit the truth i have typed.

    Just my opinion of course.

  2. #3202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    I dont understand commie. Like really i dont understand him. All of the actual communists that i knew in my time at the university knew that the little battles won meant a lot in the long term for their policies, and that the incremental approach was better than going backwards via not voting and allowing the more neoliberal/conservative candidate to win. Like, that happened here and the progressive branch of the left wing got a fuckton of flak because their preffered candidate didnt win, and they sat out the election, allowing a neoliberal candidate tl secure the election.
    There are a number of bad faith posters in this thread - Jetti/Roach/Commie seem to be the major bad actors. Because you're right, his (and their) positions don't make sense.

  3. #3203
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Why do you think withholding your vote isn't part of the Democratic process?
    No. Its not part of the democratic process. You can literally vote for a third party if you are that frustrated.

    Like I can't imagine what goes through one's mind as a leftist to think yeah power to the people and all that stuff and think "the people should not use their power to make decisions". If you want to have a voice in politics you have to vote

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    Not leftist though. Again, only childish, privileged contrarians would say that. The actual lefties in my country drill the point home that elections are important, and that we won the right to vote, when the dictatorship ended.
    Yeah its like the weirdest thing ever.

    Even if you have your problems with electoralism or whatever, you still have to participate in the process if you want to see change of any kind really.

  4. #3204
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Most those things you listed oddly enough seem to affect the poor a lot more then the rich.. Odd indeed.
    They do, you're right! Which is why, for example, House Democrats first bill they passed in 2019 was designed to address many of these issues on a federal level - https://www.commoncause.org/democrac...nown-as-h-r-1/

    Which is designed to address many of those issues while reducing the influence of money in politics.

    So have you changed your mind on why so many Americans don't vote? Or is it still because they just have never seen a candidate they liked?

  5. #3205
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    I guess this is what you all do when you got nothing else to hang your hat on. So long as you realize you're actually defending the broken US Voting system.

    There are more non-voters then voters. Most Americans fall withing poor to lower-middle class, and that is the group that doesn't vote. If you all fail at logic and reason it's not my fault.

    My overall point to Edge was being able to vote is the privileged position, because majority of the wealthy vote. Which was my underlying point from the start. Don't get it twisted and get stuck on a couple words to feel better about yourselves.

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    No it's not voting for either. Their votes aren't counted. That's how voting works, you have to count the people who did vote. Are you new to this?

    Also if no one voted in the general election, the Electorate Votes would be the one to vote for the President. As most aren't actually obligated to reflect the will of their voters. So we'd still get a someone in office.
    This is me not believing some random poster on the internet when he makes absurd claims, and I want to see evidence to back it up. You'll notice that you didn't actually provide said evidence, and instead tried to blame me for your attempt at hyperbole.

    being able to vote isn't about privilege, it is literally a right.

    Maybe you should be pushing for people to vote, instead of pushing them to not vote... just a thought.

  6. #3206
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Why do you think withholding your vote isn't part of the Democratic process?
    Sitting home on your ass isn't partcipating in the process.

    You can vote third party or even spoil your ballot, if you're so inclined, but that's where the minimum level for participation starts.

  7. #3207
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Yeah, and they passed it when it had no chance at being taken up, and I bet if the Democrats win all three branches of the government it still won't be passed. Working as intended.
    You are now blaming the fact that there are not enough democrats to pass it in senate, on democrats? WTF?

    No I didn't change my mind. Being able to vote itsself the privileged position and not practicing your own democratic views and withholding a vote is just as valid as voting.
    Privileged? Ask anyone living under a dictatorship if a choice to vote is not valid.

    You can’t take a stance that you hope Biden beats Trump, then not vote... to point to others privilege. That doesn’t make sense...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  8. #3208
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Yeah, and they passed it when it had no chance at being taken up, and I bet if the Democrats win all three branches of the government it still won't be passed. Working as intended.

    No I didn't change my mind. Being able to vote itsself the privileged position and practicing your own democratic views by withholding a vote is just as valid as voting.

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    Or I can leave the top of the ticket blank and vote down ballot. Which has been my position.
    It's literally a right... not a privileged position.

  9. #3209
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    This is me not believing some random poster on the internet when he makes absurd claims, and I want to see evidence to back it up. You'll notice that you didn't actually provide said evidence, and instead tried to blame me for your attempt at hyperbole.

    being able to vote isn't about privilege, it is literally a right.

    Maybe you should be pushing for people to vote, instead of pushing them to not vote... just a thought.
    Elections should be held in sunday/holyday. Just a thought
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  10. #3210
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    A right that the Rich are able to exercise a whole lot more. I'm not pushing anyone toward anything. I am expressing my own opinions.
    Voting really isn't that difficult, I go stand in line, and turn in a ballot. You can even mail it in.

    Your opinions are foolish, because you keep mistaking a right for a privilege.

  11. #3211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    A right that the Rich are able to exercise a whole lot more. I'm not pushing anyone toward anything. I am expressing my own opinions.
    No, you are not. You said you hope Biden beats Trump, but are attacking Biden almost exclusively. That’s not expressing opinion...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  12. #3212
    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    Elections should be held in sunday/holyday. Just a thought
    I'm all for it, make it as easy as possible to vote.

    That being said, it's still not that difficult to do.

  13. #3213
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    You mean in a dictatorship when they are given a terrible choices of canidates to vote. yeah I'd hate that.

    We are reaching Honk Kong levels of democracy here.

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    Determined by state, some states are much easier and other much more restrictive. Oddly enough the restrictive voting and registration isn't limited to the GOP.
    Great, it's still a right. I'm all for making it easier, but whining that voting is only a privilege for the wealthy is fucking nonsense.

  14. #3214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    You mean in a dictatorship when they are given a terrible choices of canidates to vote. yeah I'd hate that.
    You don’t know what a dictatorship is. In a dictatorship, you can only hope for a better candidate.

    We are reaching Honk Kong levels of democracy here.
    Not voting, means you don’t understand democracy, so the above opinion is meaningless.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  15. #3215
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Yet when you look at who votes more, it is the privileged. It has always been about privileged voting in America since it's inception.
    That's not privilege, that's fucking choice.

    That's like saying freedom of speech is a privilege, because wealthy people can sit on social media more on their phones.

    It's the most ridiculous concept I can imagine.

    It's. A. Fucking. Right.

  16. #3216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Withholding a vote is part of Democracy. It always has been.
    You are not addressing anything I said. Regurgitating the same thing over and over again, by ignoring replies, just makes you seem brainwashed.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  17. #3217
    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    Elections should be held in sunday/holyday. Just a thought
    It really should be, but republicans make sure that won't happen. The less people that vote, the better for them, it is their key strategy to win, to suppress, which makes the "I'm gonna leave it blank" an extremely ignorant decision to make.

  18. #3218
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Well when the option is "Nothing will fundamentally change" it shouldn't be surprising.
    It should be when the alternative is "Everything will get fundamentally worse".

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  19. #3219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    It should be when the alternative is "Everything will get fundamentally worse".
    it will just cause those people to dig their heels in further. you aren't going to accomplish anything with this line of thinking.
    r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
    i will never forgive you for this blizzard.

  20. #3220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    You do realize there is more than one Constitution right?
    are you referring to the bill of rights?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yes, 40% don't vote because there's literally never, ever been a candidate on either side of the isle that they like.

    Damn Jettisawn, you've solved American's complex voting problem that continues to be a topic of great discussion and research. Who knew it was so fucking easy?
    you do realize you just made his point for him right?
    r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
    i will never forgive you for this blizzard.

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