Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Flower Milk]

Why? This is what I mean about aspirational politics. Who gives a shit what they support if it's impossible. Fuck party platforms. If you want M4A you need to create a situation where it's possible to pass M4A not scream at how terrible the DNC is from the outside. That was the opportunity this year, and both the left-center and the left utterly shit the bed.

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Not just messaging, but saturation. We are winning the culture wars in a broad sense, but it's time to turn those wins into votes and longterm party gains. You only do that by pushing your win into the suburbs and rural areas too.

I give a shit if the Democratic Party supports Medicare for All, and I'm sure the millions of Americans who just lost their jobs and health insurance in the middle of a pandemic probably do, too. You can't earn their trust if you're not even at least telling people you support the very policies people want and need just to LIVE. And they need to convince those people to vote for them if they want the power needed to pass policies like M4A. You are ignoring the part of the voting process that involves "winning people over to vote for you", and just telling them to vote for you because progress will never be made if they don't. You give people something to vote for, and they will show up to vote for you, that is how it works.

[kaelleria]

Why? This is what I mean about aspirational politics. Who gives a shit what they support if it's impossible. Fuck party platforms. If you want M4A you need to create a situation where it's possible to pass M4A not scream at how terrible the DNC is from the outside. That was the opportunity this year, and both the left-center and the left utterly shit the bed.

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Not just messaging, but saturation. We are winning the culture wars in a broad sense, but it's time to turn those wins into votes and longterm party gains. You only do that by pushing your win into the suburbs and rural areas too.

I agree whole heartedly. I linked a focus group discussion of Trump supporters that believe there is systemic racism in policing and support moving some of the money to things like mental health....

Guess why they voted Trump - Defund the Police.

[Monster Hunter]

As much as people say this, he actually does. Republicans look at what their base wants, like crackdown on immigration, and then craft immigration policies to fuck over immigrants like upping ICE, and then they craft slogans like "Build the Wall" to go along with those policies. Ask yourself, how do you know that "Build the Wall" is racist? It is because of the racist policies and messaging behind it.

Democrats look at an activist created slogan like "Defund the Police" and ignore it and craft no messaging or narrative behind it, it is no surprise when Republicans then turn around and use it as an opening to attack them on since they're not even bothering to talk about it.

you also have the issue of a two party system, most voters are really single issue voters, as much as people wish otherwise, so they will pick the party that most favors what they want on a single issue, regardless of there other policy's, if all you provide the people is 2 options then you get situations like this constantly, the republican will always get a large amount of votes simply because there is no other legitimate party opposing the democrats, and vice versa.

so you have things like a guy whos massivly pro free market but would agree the whole ICE thing is horrible, but free markets are what he sees as #1 importance, in a multi party system he could find a party thats pro free markets and pro immigration as there are many in europe like that, but under a two party system he has to make a choice, does he vote republican to get what he wants on his most important issue even though he disagrees with most of the rest or does he sacrifice his hopes for that one issue for a more borad acceptance of policy's, voting for the lesser evil as they say, without any real choice in the system, its hard to impossible to actualy dissern the motivations of aany blig block of voters really.

[wunksta]

There was another that was arrested today for threatening to kill Joe Biden, Chuck Schumer, and blow up a building in New York City.

Facebook bio reads: "All Lives Matter."

Curious.

[beanman12345]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/11/polit...use/index.html

White House political affairs director Brian Jack now has covid.

At this point, If I was Biden, I would work from camp david for the first few months of the administration. empty the entire whitehouse of people for a GOOD long time to make sure any trace is long dead. I don't think anyone in the administration goes to camp david so it should be safe work environment. Really they need to is tear down the whole white house since the stain of the trump corruption will forever taint it, but that's not gonna happen.

[Edge-]

As much as people say this, he actually does.

His campaign technically does, he doesn't. Which is why his rallies were little more than just a soapbox for him to air his grievances rather than discuss any actual policy.

Republicans look at what their base wants, like crackdown on immigration, and then craft immigration policies to fuck over immigrants like upping ICE, and then they craft slogans like "Build the Wall" to go along with those policies.

Uh...that was a Trump thing, not a Republican thing. It only became a Republican thing after Trump won the nomination. It wasn't anywhere near as sophisticated or subtle as you think it was. And slogans, believe it or not, aren't boiled down policy. They're slogans.

Ask yourself, how do you know that "Build the Wall" is racist? It is because of the racist policies and messaging behind it.

Initially, it wasn't. He just said it, and said Mexico would pay for it - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...sidential-bid/

It evolved into a racist wall as Trump continue to talk about it, not discussing any real policies but instead calling asylum seekers and immigrants "rapists and murderers".

Some of us have been following this shit for years and remember the origins of things like "BUILD THE WALL" and "LOCK HER UP" and how they're little more than chorus chants and have nothing to do with policy.

Democrats look at an activist created slogan like "Defund the Police" and ignore it and craft no messaging or narrative behind it, it is no surprise when Republicans then turn around and use it as an opening to attack them on since they're not even bothering to talk about it.

Because it's a shit slogan. Don't get me wrong, I get what it actually means and I absolutely, 100% support the goals. But it's a shit slogan. Not remotely comparable to a slogan created by a presidential candidate.

[Katchii]

Yeah, yeah, I was thinking of something else.

There are flaws in every system, but our current one strongly encourages this level of partisanship. I think it's worth looking at other options.

Yeah, our current voting system is in desperate need of a revamp. The country has changed and evolved since the current system was implemented, it needs to get with the times.

[postman1782]

It's funny on two counts. 1) That stuff sounds so made up 2) When there were real whistle blowers that needed protecting during the Trump impeachment, FOX was doing its hardest to...expose them. Honestly, at this point I think the opinion talking heads at FOX should just admit the grift.

Yeah, I don't fucking understand how they can rationalize these shitty arguments. Especially when this woman, I am guessing, repeated several times how far away the van was, said she was wearing a fucking poll worker uniform, and had no phone to document this shit? She had no pictures, and no video. But was on her supposed lunch break, with no phone apparently. I take my phone phone everywhere with me, unless I am home.

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Curious.

Very curious. But the fact that he was pushing the whole "Jew from Jew York City" bullshit, tells you all you need to know about him.

[Flower Milk]

His campaign technically does, he doesn't. Which is why his rallies were little more than just a soapbox for him to air his grievances rather than discuss any actual policy.



Uh...that was a Trump thing, not a Republican thing. It only became a Republican thing after Trump won the nomination. It wasn't anywhere near as sophisticated or subtle as you think it was. And slogans, believe it or not, aren't boiled down policy. They're slogans.



Initially, it wasn't. He just said it, and said Mexico would pay for it - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...sidential-bid/

It evolved into a racist wall as Trump continue to talk about it, not discussing any real policies but instead calling asylum seekers and immigrants "rapists and murderers".

Some of us have been following this shit for years and remember the origins of things like "BUILD THE WALL" and "LOCK HER UP" and how they're little more than chorus chants and have nothing to do with policy.



Because it's a shit slogan. Don't get me wrong, I get what it actually means and I absolutely, 100% support the goals. But it's a shit slogan. Not remotely comparable to a slogan created by a presidential candidate.

"Build the Wall" is also a shit slogan if you never bother to explain to Republican/Trump voters the racist immigration policies behind it that they want. That's my point. A slogan is shit if there is 0 messaging or narrative being pushed behind it, which is what the Democratic party sucks at. They always run on the defensive of Republican attacks and "we're not evil like Republicans". They very rarely talk about their policies and craft messaging and narratives around those policies to run on the offensive. Progressives do this, and it's something moderates can learn from progressives on. They don't even have to run on progressive policies, they just have to run their campaigns differently. That's all I'm asking for moderates to do if they want to win.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

I give a shit if the Democratic Party supports Medicare for All, and I'm sure the millions of Americans who just lost their jobs and health insurance in the middle of a pandemic probably do, too. You can't earn their trust if you're not even at least telling people you support the very policies people want and need just to LIVE. And they need to convince those people to vote for them if they want the power needed to pass policies like M4A. You are ignoring the part of the voting process that involves "winning people over to vote for you", and just telling them to vote for you because progress will never be made if they don't. You give people something to vote for you, and they will show up to vote for you, that is how it works.

And you're either missing my point of completely ignoring it. You want the Democrats to respond to a policy you support, and this election has demonstrated, above all else, that people will vote for policy entirely separately from politicians. You're still pretending this is about campaigning, which is why the left got its face rubbed in dog shit during the primary and why the DNC did during the election.

You guys can't sell shit, and that's your problem. In fact, you're so bad at it that I'm actually fucking afraid of M4A fucking up my healthcare and you chased me out of engaging with the left -- despite sharing many policy goals -- by giving Joe Rogan a sloppy ass BJ earlier this year.

You need infrastructure and media, and you don't have it. The DNC does, but isn't using it properly.

[PhaelixWW]

Here's video on how RCV works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHRPMJmzBBw

Yeah, that's a pretty simple and concise explanation.

Yeah, yeah, I was thinking of something else.

There are flaws in every system, but our current one strongly encourages this level of partisanship. I think it's worth looking at other options.

If you have the time, check up on it, because I'm starting to think that this is the way we should be voting. I'm still in that "wait, is there a catch?" phase, though.

[DocSavageFan]

RCP now has AZ in play again...Biden at 259.

[Rasulis]

Idiots!

Military Wife Who Found Zip Codes on GOP's Voter Fraud List Says Accusation Made 'Without Any Basis in Fact'

The Trump campaign told Attorney General William Barr they identified more than 3,000 people who cast ballots in Nevada despite not living in the state. However, one woman who believes her and her husband are on the list, is defending their votes as being valid.

Amy Rose moved from Henderson, Nevada, to Davis, California, with her husband, who's a major in the Air Force, for him to pursue his Ph.D., she told KSNV. However, the couple cast absentee ballots in Nevada and shortly after the election, Rose said she found their current and former nine-digit zip codes on a list of 3,000 people the Trump campaign claimed fraudulently cast ballots.

Rose told KSNV that the couple is still eligible to claim Nevada as their home despite living in California for the past two years because families don't have to change their residency if they're in a state on orders for the military.

Among the addresses on the list are 130 Army Post Office addresses, nine Fleet Post Office addresses and 16 Diplomatic Post Office addresses, according to Military.com. Rose told the outlet it was "pretty obvious that hundreds of military people are on this list."

[kaelleria]

RCP now has AZ in play again...Biden at 259.

RCP is dumb. They haven't called PA yet because they're Republican backed.

Biden won. Get over it.

[DocSavageFan]

RCP is dumb. They haven't called PA yet because they're Republican backed.

Biden won. Get over it.

I'll wait until the litigation and recounts are over before accepting the results of this election.

[Machismo]

RCP now has AZ in play again...Biden at 259.

RCP has had that for several days, not sure if they ever called Arizona. As far as I know, Fox and AP were the ones calling Arizona.

Of course, Trump is still losing Arizona.

You Trumpsters really should get on the same page with your lies.

[Santti]

I mean clearly you can. Trump just got 70m votes with no policies to speak of.

Yeah... "Make America Great Again" is pretty much just for the listener to imagine what he wants, and Trump is totally going to achieve that goal, like he is some sort of orange, hamburger shaped comet in the night sky.

[PhaelixWW]

RCP now has AZ in play again...Biden at 259.

RCP never had AZ projected. Try again.

You're a few days later in your copy/paste talking points.

[Machismo]

I'll wait until the litigation and recounts are over before acknowledging the results of this election.

It's a shame you Trumpsters hate democracy and freedom.

I love that Trump's only path to victory is to sue people for voting.

[Edge-]

RCP now has AZ in play again...Biden at 259.

You mean 279? Or are we still pretending that PA hasn't been called? The only state that hasn't been called is GA, which either pushes Biden up to 306 or narrow Trump's loss 290:233