Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Kaleredar]

I don't know, after that she went into a rant about how the Republicans need to win the senate to stop Biden from being a pro-corporation capitalist and it was just fucking surreal.

Basically, just "toss a lot of scary words out." Par the course for right-wing talking heads.

[Egomaniac]

The democrats didn't invent "Defund the police" as a policy slogan. It wasn't invented in the streets in fits of sadness and rage.

But I guess the dems should have rebranded it to "The police has become to militarized and since if your only hammer is a tool, then all your problems look like nails we need to take the funding from military style weapons and gear and in turn give that to other programs better equipped to deal with mental illness or into education".

Remember that time, a football player quietly and respectfully knelt during the anthem just like a Navy Seal suggested he do....no way to misconstrue that...oh wait....

When will you people realize it doesn't;t matter what we call anything....the repubs will ratfuck it?

I didn't say the Democrats invented the slogan. I said it was a bad slogan.

[Bodakane]

I didn't say the Democrats invented the slogan. I said it was a bad slogan.

It was never meant to be a slogan. It's like saying "the wave" is a terrible way to vote.

The media turned it into a slogan. You can't stop or change that.

[Endus]

The democrats didn't invent "Defund the police" as a policy slogan. It wasn't invented in the streets in fits of sadness and rage.

But I guess the dems should have rebranded it to "The police have become to militarized and since if your only tool is a hammer, then all your problems look like nails we need to take the funding from military style weapons and gear and in turn give that to other programs better equipped to deal with mental illness or into education".

Remember that time, a football player quietly and respectfully knelt during the anthem just like a Navy Seal suggested he do....no way to misconstrue that...oh wait....

When will you people realize it doesn't;t matter what we call anything....the repubs will ratfuck it? We are talking about the very same people that painted Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton as straight up socialists.

Frankly, I think it's a waste to fight it at this point. They're gonna ratfuck the slogan, so toss it to 'em and let 'em ratfuck away. Fighting about the slogan means we're wasting time and effort not getting anything actually done.

At the same time, ratfuck 'em right back. Point out that people supporting the status quo are pro-police-brutality, pro-gestapo, racist, etc. Start fixing things, and when they try and stop you, point out that they're arguing for more jackboots on more necks. There's no need to be polite about this shit. People are dying out there.

[Egomaniac]

It was never meant to be a slogan. It's like saying "the wave" is a terrible way to vote.

The media turned it into a slogan. You can't stop or change that.

The media didn't turn it into a slogan. Putting it on signs made it into a slogan.

And again, it doesn't matter who made the slogan. It's still a bad slogan.

[Bodakane]

The media didn't turn it into a slogan. Putting it on signs made it into a slogan.

And again, it doesn't matter who made the slogan. It's still a bad slogan.

You're playing right into repub's hands. Goods job.

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Frankly, I think it's a waste to fight it at this point. They're gonna ratfuck the slogan, so toss it to 'em and let 'em ratfuck away. Fighting about the slogan means we're wasting time and effort not getting anything actually done.

At the same time, ratfuck 'em right back. Point out that people supporting the status quo are pro-police-brutality, pro-gestapo, racist, etc. Start fixing things, and when they try and stop you, point out that they're arguing for more jackboots on more necks. There's no need to be polite about this shit. People are dying out there.

You're not wrong, but it just drives me crazy how Dems build the case for the Repubs.

[Mormolyce]

GA, FL, OH,

Also states where your guy wiped out in the primary!


Tell us more how you dont understand the US electorate. It's amusing.

First of all, he's not "my guy". But your argument here is that the Dems shouldn't have run a progressive because they'd lose areas like this - and the establishment candidate wiped out there. If they can't win the "middle", then what's the point of them? It's the only thing they have in their favour.

Also since you know this stuff so well, I'm sure you don't need me to tell you how unrepresentative primaries are.

[Egomaniac]

Frankly, I think it's a waste to fight it at this point. They're gonna ratfuck the slogan, so toss it to 'em and let 'em ratfuck away. Fighting about the slogan means we're wasting time and effort not getting anything actually done.

At the same time, ratfuck 'em right back. Point out that people supporting the status quo are pro-police-brutality, pro-gestapo, racist, etc. Start fixing things, and when they try and stop you, point out that they're arguing for more jackboots on more necks. There's no need to be polite about this shit. People are dying out there.

The point of a slogan isn't to be be "unratfuckable". The point of a slogan is to get people on your side of the issue.

"Defund the Police" is a bad slogan not because the Republicans can use it against you. It's a bad slogan because it doesn't actually tell anyone what it wants to accomplish. All it says is "Take money away from the police". It does not say "Re-invest that money in ways that can more effectively deal with the issues that the police are normally sent to deal with". It cedes control of the narrative to the Republicans. It makes the fight about the slogan...which is exactly what you want to avoid.

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You're playing right into repub's hands. Goods job.

I could say the same thing about you. Right now the Republicans control the narrative behind "Defund the Police". It's become about the slogan...and not about the idea.

[fwc577]

MODS!!! Can you tell them to knock off the posts about Defund the Police. There is like 30 pages of posts about whether or not it was a good slogan and this isn’t the Defund the Police thread, it’s the election thread.

[Kathranis]

MODS!!! Can you tell them to knock off the posts about Defund the Police. There is like 30 pages of posts about whether or not it was a good slogan and this isn’t the Defund the Police thread, it’s the election thread.

Yes, please. It's a circular discussion that's gone on for 30+ pages.

[Endus]

The point of a slogan isn't to be be "unratfuckable". The point of a slogan is to get people on your side of the issue.

"Defund the Police" is a bad slogan not because the Republicans can use it against you. It's a bad slogan because it doesn't actually tell anyone what it wants to accomplish. All it says is "Take money away from the police". It does not say "Re-invest that money in ways that can more effectively deal with the issues that the police are normally sent to deal with". It cedes control of the narrative to the Republicans. It makes the fight about the slogan...which is exactly what you want to avoid.

As much as I've spent time arguing this point, I don't really see the point in screaming into the void about it. It's what Republicans want. For people to waste all their efforts tone policing each other while nothing that matters actually gets done.

You're falling into their trap. Talking about whether the slogan is bad or good rather than ending police brutality systemically across the USA means you're playing the Republican's game, by the Republican's rules.

Wasting time trying to find the right, pretty slogan to put on pins and make Twitter hashtags for is a waste of everyone's damned time, while people are out there being brutalized and killed. There are bigger damned fish to fry.

[Omega10]

Frankly, I think it's a waste to fight it at this point. They're gonna ratfuck the slogan, so toss it to 'em and let 'em ratfuck away. Fighting about the slogan means we're wasting time and effort not getting anything actually done.

At the same time, ratfuck 'em right back. Point out that people supporting the status quo are pro-police-brutality, pro-gestapo, racist, etc. Start fixing things, and when they try and stop you, point out that they're arguing for more jackboots on more necks. There's no need to be polite about this shit. People are dying out there.

It's a waste of time to continue the fight over the slogan. Defund the Police should have been changed to Modernize the Police, meaning no more white cops killing blacks for fun, no more leniency for whites while throwing the books at blacks, and no more letting whites whiz by at 95mph to get blacks speeding at 75.

The Modernize the Police issues are still real and still important, and still need major work. Like lots of major work.

A lot of the "rioting" was Proud Boys and their allies coming to protests and making a mess of things, and the cops were on the side of the Proud Boys. Even when the Proud Boys were heavily armed. This is beyond disgusting.

Moderate democrats refused to mention that the slogan needed to be changed when it would have mattered, and they paid the price for their mistake. And now they are trying to point their fingers at others and refusing to take their share of the responsibility. But even that is secondary to Modernizing the Police into something that is not so enticing for sadistic white supremacists.

My respect for Clyburn has gone way down. He reminds me of corporate dead weight people who never say anything while things are happening, but after the fact are quick to point fingers. He should have mentioned this a long time ago and he would have saved himself and his fellow moderate democrats a lot of grief. He let his allies down.

[Mormolyce]

The media didn't turn it into a slogan. Putting it on signs made it into a slogan.

And again, it doesn't matter who made the slogan. It's still a bad slogan.

Perhaps if the establishment wing had had some actual policies to put forward and engaged with the society they're trying to convince to vote for them, they could've come up with a better one. Or even pushed a different agenda entirely.

Instead what did the Biden campaign stand for? "Hi I'm Joe Biden and I'm not Trump". So in that vacuum the progressive policies took the limelight.

They have engagement with the community that the Democratic Party desperately needs, instead of trying to undermine them they should be working with them.

[jonnysensible]

When people say 'i dont think we should say defund the police' they mean that they dont really like protests and they dont understand why all of politics doesnt cater to them.

[Egomaniac]

As much as I've spent time arguing this point, I don't really see the point in screaming into the void about it. It's what Republicans want. For people to waste all their efforts tone policing each other while nothing that matters actually gets done.

You're falling into their trap. Talking about whether the slogan is bad or good rather than ending police brutality systemically across the USA means you're playing the Republican's game, by the Republican's rules.

Wasting time trying to find the right, pretty slogan to put on pins and make Twitter hashtags for is a waste of everyone's damned time, while people are out there being brutalized and killed. There are bigger damned fish to fry.

Endus, I saw you earlier in this very thread defending that it was a good slogan.

Now you are saying that it's a bad slogan but that's besides the point.

Yes, there are bigger fish to fry. Which means it would be a good damn time to just drop the slogan instead of defending it.

By the way, "End Police Brutality" is a much better slogan. There's nothing in that slogan that they can beat you over the head with. Nobody likes the idea of Police Brutality...even when they can't actually recognize it when it's actually happening.

[cubby]

You can't show me that 'defund the police' was the breaking point. Anyone with a just an ear to US can lists off more concrete factors that contributed to those lost elections. The party has been underperforming for some time.

Of course I can't, it's an entirely subjective issue within a subjective arena. But I can objectively show you that the GOP used the poor naming convention against candidates, and that the effort was effective.

And that's not even the point.

The bigger issue is the movements inability to recognize they wasting a historic opportunity with an inability to admit they chose a poor name/slogan. And that is also your core issue. You can't recognize being wrong. There are at least four posters on this forum, including me, who are on the movements side, can accurately explain what the issues are and why the movement is so important, telling you the name itself is causing serious problems and should be changed - and you're ignoring that entirely.

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The way I see it, the Democrats are simply losing the war on memes. They're easily spread, have a simple message, and be blatant lies, but memes can influence hearts and minds of millions.

I can't disagree with you, at all.

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What if instead if "Defund the Police", we called it "Blue + 2", referring to sending a social worker and a trained psychologist with the officers on all calls relating to domestic disturbance, mentally impaired people, etc?

That those people would be paid by cutting the budget for "normal" police activities is largely irrelevant in the scheme of what the plan is trying to accomplish. Instead of 4 armed officers, you send 2 armed officers, a social worker, and a psychologist, and if you let the social worker and psychologist talk people down first, the likelihood that the officers need to use force is greatly diminished.

Still need proper reform and oversight to solve the larger problem of actual racists becoming cops and abusing their power, but that's a separate (albeit related) issue.

Perfect - Blue Plus Two.

[Themius]

The point of a slogan isn't to be be "unratfuckable". The point of a slogan is to get people on your side of the issue.

"Defund the Police" is a bad slogan not because the Republicans can use it against you. It's a bad slogan because it doesn't actually tell anyone what it wants to accomplish. All it says is "Take money away from the police". It does not say "Re-invest that money in ways that can more effectively deal with the issues that the police are normally sent to deal with". It cedes control of the narrative to the Republicans. It makes the fight about the slogan...which is exactly what you want to avoid.

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I could say the same thing about you. Right now the Republicans control the narrative behind "Defund the Police". It's become about the slogan...and not about the idea.

This is probably the most shortsighted thing you could have possibly said.

"We think that basic medicare should be expanded to the entire population similar to the system every single western nation has including our neighbours north and all our allies in Europe."

"Democrats want to create death panels and take away healthcare from you. They also want to create a socialist-communist society where death panels kill republicans! They only want to do this so they can give all the illegals healthcare and take away jobs from Americans! if they give us healthcare, what's next?! What about my freedom!"

You're acting like Republicans think rationally and therefore a slogan can't be fucked. Come back to the real world.

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Of course I can't, it's an entirely subjective issue within a subjective arena. But I can objectively show you that the GOP used the poor naming convention against candidates, and that the effort was effective.

And that's not even the point.

The bigger issue is the movements inability to recognize they wasting a historic opportunity with an inability to admit they chose a poor name/slogan. And that is also your core issue. You can't recognize being wrong. There are at least four posters on this forum, including me, who are on the movements side, can accurately explain what the issues are and why the movement is so important, telling you the name itself is causing serious problems and should be changed - and you're ignoring that entirely.

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I can't disagree with you, at all.

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Perfect - Blue Plus Two.

meme wars don't mean shit when the base doesn't really care about what people say or what the substance is... when healthcare like every other ally we have gets translated to communist that wants to make death panels.... please tell me why the fuck we're even talking about the nuances of fucking slogans?

Republicans are lost and will stay lost why the fuck should any one give a fuck what they rat fuck?

[Egomaniac]

You're acting like Republicans think rationally and therefore a slogan can't be fucked. Come back to the real world.
?

You didn't understand my point at all.

Read it again.

[Deja Thoris]

Republicans are lost and will stay lost why the fuck should any one give a fuck what they rat fuck?

These aren't just shit slogans to people who go out of their way to be disingenuous. They are just shit slogans end of story.

[Omega10]

FWIW They ran endless ads here in Arizona trumpeting the whole "Defund the police" slogan ... and yet Arizona flipped blue. And elected a Democrat Senator. They screamed "socialist" every chance they got, and yet Arizona flipped blue. So many ads with AOC's face and Nancy Pelosi's (that noted communist) face, and yet Arizona flipped blue.

Seems to me that good candidates win despite "poor messaging" and poor candidates get swallowed up by it.

Oh, and we legalized recreational marijuana.

Stand up for what you believe in and people WILL follow you. Run away from what your opponent claims of you and people will just see you as weak. If the Democratic Party doesn't start to stand for something, there will be another Donald Trump.

Another way to look at it is:

Black Lives Matters is an important issue in America. Moderate democrats intentionally chose to not talk about the issue. Their opponents DID talk about the issue, and completely crushed the moderate democrats since, well they were the only ones doing any talking.

And, oh yeah, police brutality has not been wiped out or anything like that. The issue is not going away.