1. #34061
    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    Even Thomas Jefferson believed the constitution should be renewed every 19 years.
    He sure did. Unfortunately he didn't write that into the constitution :P

  2. #34062
    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    Even Thomas Jefferson believed the constitution should be renewed every 19 years.
    It is honestly funny seeing some people say "you can't change the constitution" while at the same time defending things that were changes to the constitution (amendments).

    The funny thing is, if current population and voting trends continue the way they are in Texas, it might end up becoming a swing state that could decide every election (since it gives the 2nd highest EC votes, and it will be a cold day in hell before Cal flips Red)> In time, it might also become a blue state. Basically making it nearly impossible for the GOP to win the presidency. I wonder how they would react if and when that does happen.

    It is honestly though so disappointing as an outsider seeing how some members of the US congress have placed the founding fathers as idols who never got stuff wrong, therefore the constitution must remain the same as is. To the result that a large number of americans (mainly GOP supporters) see any changes to the constitution these days as "demonic" and "unamerican". Just like the bible, these people cherry pick parts they like and treat the parts they don't like as fake news.

    Unrelated to the topic. One part that made me laugh out loud was seeing a video of trump supporters screaming "true patriots do not get vaccinated". I wonder who is gonna tell them that George Washington had his soldiers get the early smallpox vaccine during the war of independence. This creates a true contradiction with how trump supporters think. They hold the founding fathers as "true patriots" and "real americans" who did no wrong. Yet at the same time they would probably call them unamerican when it came to things like vaccinations. These people are now calling Fox News, Fox fucking News "fake news" unless it is people like Hannity, Calson etc praising trump and saying he won the election.
    Last edited by Volardelis; 2020-11-16 at 01:30 AM.

  3. #34063
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volardelis View Post
    It is honestly funny seeing some people say "you can't change the constitution" while at the same time defending things that were changes to the constitution (amendments).
    One of the things that bothers me the most about the right wing is that they seem to think patriotism is rolling over and doing whatever the government says, when we're a nation that was founded in revolution. They complain about rioting and looting and yet name one of their factions after the Boston Tea Party.

    It's so fucking stupid. Immigration and protest are like, the most American things.

  4. #34064
    Trumpers are still donating to Trump's Campaign and finances even though he is a "Billionaire".
    A Fetus is not a person under the 14th amendment.

    Christians are Forced Birth Fascists against Human Rights who indoctrinate and groom children. Prove me wrong.

  5. #34065
    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    Trumpers are still donating to Trump's Campaign and finances even though he is a "Billionaire".
    Where 60% of those donations go to pay for his "debts", they have to donate more than $8000 for any of it to go to anything other than Trump.

  6. #34066
    The Lightbringer Clone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volardelis View Post
    Unrelated to the topic. One part that made me laugh out loud was seeing a video of trump supporters screaming "true patriots do not get vaccinated". I wonder who is gonna tell them that George Washington had his soldiers get the early smallpox vaccine during the war of independence. This creates a true contradiction with how trump supporters think. They hold the founding fathers as "true patriots" and "real americans" who did no wrong. Yet at the same time they would probably call them unamerican when it came to things like vaccinations. These people are now calling Fox News, Fox fucking News "fake news" unless it is people like Hannity, Calson etc praising trump and saying he won the election.
    I'm glad I learned this today.

  7. #34067
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volardelis View Post
    It is honestly funny seeing some people say "you can't change the constitution" while at the same time defending things that were changes to the constitution (amendments).

    The funny thing is, if current population and voting trends continue the way they are in Texas, it might end up becoming a swing state that could decide every election (since it gives the 2nd highest EC votes, and it will be a cold day in hell before Cal flips Red)> In time, it might also become a blue state. Basically making it nearly impossible for the GOP to win the presidency. I wonder how they would react if and when that does happen.

    It is honestly though so disappointing as an outsider seeing how some members of the US congress have placed the founding fathers as idols who never got stuff wrong, therefore the constitution must remain the same as is. To the result that a large number of americans (mainly GOP supporters) see any changes to the constitution these days as "demonic" and "unamerican". Just like the bible, these people cherry pick parts they like and treat the parts they don't like as fake news.

    Unrelated to the topic. One part that made me laugh out loud was seeing a video of trump supporters screaming "true patriots do not get vaccinated". I wonder who is gonna tell them that George Washington had his soldiers get the early smallpox vaccine during the war of independence. This creates a true contradiction with how trump supporters think. They hold the founding fathers as "true patriots" and "real americans" who did no wrong. Yet at the same time they would probably call them unamerican when it came to things like vaccinations. These people are now calling Fox News, Fox fucking News "fake news" unless it is people like Hannity, Calson etc praising trump and saying he won the election.
    The GOP senators who uphold the founding fathers as being some sort of divine saints and therefore that things should be done as they were in the 1700s are doing so strictly because doing so allows them to be obstructionist, resist change, and generally allows them to refuse to take action on things while ensuring they can continue to carve out some sphere of influence in American politics.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  8. #34068
    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    I'm glad I learned this today.
    Yeah it is an interesting fact I learned about recently too. Even went to check historical sources to see if it was true. Hell, George Washington, Benedict Arnold and Ben Franklin believed that smallpox was a bigger threat to American independence than the British. The very Kingdom they were rebelling against. The Founding fathers may not have been perfect people (I mean, who is), but at least they respected science. Shame you can't say the same for these so called "true patriots" that blindly follow #45 and how they see the COVID-19 pandemic as "fake news designed to destroy America". Just think for a moment, the USA might not even exist today if George didn't make his army take a very risky vaccine at the time. Hell, look at how after WW1 there was the Spanish flu pandemic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    One of the things that bothers me the most about the right wing is that they seem to think patriotism is rolling over and doing whatever the government says, when we're a nation that was founded in revolution. They complain about rioting and looting and yet name one of their factions after the Boston Tea Party.

    It's so fucking stupid. Immigration and protest are like, the most American things.
    It is even more mind boggling with how the right wing wants "small government" yet they want the general population to obey their backwards way of thinking.
    Last edited by Volardelis; 2020-11-16 at 03:10 AM.

  9. #34069
    Quote Originally Posted by Volardelis View Post
    Yeah it is an interesting fact I learned about recently too. Even went to check historical sources to see if it was true. Hell, George Washington, Benedict Arnold and Ben Franklin believed that smallpox was a bigger threat to American independence than the British. The very Kingdom they were rebelling against. The Founding fathers may not have been perfect people (I mean, who is), but at least they respected science. Shame you can't say the same for these so called "true patriots" that blindly follow #45 and how they see the COVID-19 pandemic as "fake news designed to destroy America". Just think for a moment, the USA might not even exist today if George didn't make his army take a very risky vaccine at the time. Hell, look at how after WW1 there was the Spanish flu pandemic.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It is even more mind boggling with how the right wing wants "small government" yet they want the general population to obey their backwards way of thinking.
    When, will we as a people stop being boggled or surprised, by the American right being major and massive hypocrites? EVERYTHING they espouse is hypocritical...EVERYTHING.

  10. #34070
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    One of the things that bothers me the most about the right wing is that they seem to think patriotism is rolling over and doing whatever the government says, when we're a nation that was founded in revolution. They complain about rioting and looting and yet name one of their factions after the Boston Tea Party.

    It's so fucking stupid. Immigration and protest are like, the most American things.
    That's actually incorrect for the Right Wing, they believe in rolling over and doing what the Government says so long as it's one of THEIR guys saying to do it. The moment a Democrat in charge tells them to do anything they start bitching and moaning about government overreach and the rise of tyranny!

  11. #34071
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volardelis View Post
    I wonder who is gonna tell them that George Washington had his soldiers get the early smallpox vaccine during the war of independence.
    That's not correct. The first smallpox vaccination in the USA was in 1799, well after the war of independence finished.

    Perhaps you mean he had the troops variolated?

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  12. #34072
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    IIRC it was put in place because the framers figured that the vast majority of the population would not have access to the information they would need to make informed decisions--especially those way the fuck out in the sticks--so the idea was that their vote could be overruled by someone more educated if they were being led astray. They also wanted to avoid a situation in which a charismatic asshole could just win over the vast majority of the population through bullshit and then gain a fuckload of power through populism.

    Yeah, that didn't age well, did it?

    These days everyone in the US has pretty easy access to information (or misinformation if they follow FOX "News") and we've seen time and again that it's still pretty easy for a "popular" asshole to get elected to office. The fact is that the Electoral College didn't solve any of the problems that the creators thought it would and has since been used as a handicap that gives undue amount of power to the minority of the population. It desperately needs to go, but the GOP cling to it so tightly (mainly because it's fast becoming their ONLY path to the Presidency) that there's little chance of it being eradicated unless the Dems can control the House, Senate and Presidency--and get enough support from within their own party.
    Nah, the whole "It was founders thought XYZ." about the public is a myth to make it seem like the antiquated system is ok in the 21st century. The whole reason for the EC was because the south had a larger population but fewer free men who could vote. Essentially they wanted to have their slaves count towards choosing a president/number of representatives in the state without the right to vote in any election.

    Pretty much it was a keep the union together and kick the slavery debate down the road a few years like pretty much every pre-civil war decision.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Yea that's why amendments exist right?
    Not what Jefferson and co meant. Jefferson was pretty much saying as a new generation takes over they should not be beholden by the ideals of the previous generation and a constitution should be rewritten from scratch every roughly 20 years.

  13. #34073
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    *cracks knuckles*

    Why does the Fake News Media continuously assume that Joe Biden will ascend to the Presidency, not even allowing our side to show, which we are just getting ready to do, how badly shattered and violated our great Constitution has been in the 2020 Election. It was attacked, perhaps like never before! From large numbers of Poll Watchers that were thrown out of vote counting rooms in many of our States, to millions of ballots that have been altered by Democrats, only for Democrats, to voting after the Election was over, to using Radical Left owned Dominion Voting Systems, turned down by Texas and many others because it was not good or secure, those responsible for the safeguarding of our Constitution cannot allow the Fake results of the 2020 Mail-In Election to stand. The World is watching!
    This was spread over three tweets. Two of them were flagged.

    And you know what that means.

    Now I know what you're going to say. Why bother specifically calling out

    @Thwart
    @Ghostpanther
    @lockedout
    @Zeth Hawkins
    @Healing Rain
    @Hammerfest

    and so forth and so on, when they haven't shown up recently? Well, because a completely honest, genuine poster like myself (snicker) will give them every possible opportunity to find the facts and evidence behind Trump's claims, or when necessary, to admit there are no facts or evidence behind Trump's claims.

    Or to remain silent, and we all know what that means.

    But let's get @YUPPIE in on this as well. He seems pretty active.

    So the 24-hour challenge is as follows: for both the red text and the blue text above, @YUPPIE and all other Trump supporters are to find, and cite, the court case in which evidence of such has been submitted. Yeah, I'm not just looking for a random tweet or a non-reputable source. Trump says there's fraud, Trump is launching lawsuits about the fraud, therefore, Trump will provide all the evidence he has of fraud in these lawsuits.

    Find the red example, and cite it

    Find the blue example, and cite it.

    Or, find that neither statement has evidence that has been entered into a court of law. I'll accept that, too. And it proves you're not a coward because you looked.

    Silence, as always, means I get to answer for you ("there is no such evidence, Trump lied") and also there's the direct admission by such silence that you're a coward for not even looking for the evidence.

    "But what about those posters who haven't been here? How is it safe to label them as cowards, when they're not even on the forums to OHHHHHH I get it."

    Yeah. Twenty-four hours, as per usual, time stats now.
    Last edited by Rozz; 2020-11-17 at 03:36 PM.

  14. #34074
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Nah, the whole "It was founders thought XYZ." about the public is a myth to make it seem like the antiquated system is ok in the 21st century.
    A myth, huh? Must be a pretty fucking old myth because James Madison and Alexander Hamilton wrote about precisely that in the Federalist Papers.

  15. #34075
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    *cracks knuckles*



    This was spread over three tweets. Two of them were flagged.

    And you know what that means.

    Now I know what you're going to say. Why bother specifically calling out

    Thwart
    I did think it was kind of funny that I haven't seen much of Thwart recently.

  16. #34076
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    That's not correct. The first smallpox vaccination in the USA was in 1799, well after the war of independence finished.

    Perhaps you mean he had the troops variolated?


    From what I've been reading, you could argue that variolation is kind of a proto vaccine from a certain point of view. You do get exposed to the virus, however in a controlled manner (but these methods were risker than the common vaccine we know of today). You are correct that proper methods of vaccination did start in 1799 for the US. But the main point of what I posted was that George knew that a "hidden enemy" like smallpox was dangerous so he took risky methods to try and stop the spread before it became a massive problem during the war. Pointing out the hypocrisy that "true patriot" Trump supporters say that "true patriots" don't take vaccinations, and / or take methods to reduce the risk of getting a dangerous disease (COVID-19 for example) because of reasons. Because to them, you need to be 100% loyal to the president to be a "true patriot" (even though these people hated Obama and still do). And if the orange man says you don't need to wear a mask or social distancing is not required, they will obey and listen.

    Some of the reasons they have given for not wearing a mask is so damn pathetic. The tragedy is, there probably is a few that knows that wearing a mask does reduce the risk of spreading COVID, however they feel pressured by the cult to not wear it. Just look at how right wing biased media (like Fox news) gave Obama & Biden hell for "letting" two Americans die to Ebola. Yet they praise Trump for doing such a great job about COVID even though there have been 200k+ deaths so far. They create fake conspiracy theories (like how the COVID vaccine will have a microchip in it that will allow Bill Gates and George Soros the ability to hack into your brain and steal your secrets) to discourage people from taking those methods to reduce the rate of infection. Can you imagine if someone like Trump was president (or of a similar position) during events like the Spanish flew, or as previously discussed, the smallpox problem before, during and after the US war of independence.

    "Smallpox is fake news, it was created by the British to undermine our plans to rebel against their rule. They brought it over via the airports. They had create airports during those times. Can you believe that? I believe that."
    Last edited by Volardelis; 2020-11-16 at 05:37 AM.

  17. #34077
    Quote Originally Posted by Volardelis View Post
    isn't Variola the virus that causes smallpox. Well one of them.
    Variolating was a form of inmunizing people against smallpox before the vaccine. You took scabs from infected people, and applied on healthy ones. Yeah, it was way more dangerous than a vaccine, but it was WAY less dangerous than facing the real disease.
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  18. #34078
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volardelis View Post
    isn't Variola the virus that causes smallpox. Well one of them.
    Yes, which is the root of the word.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variolation

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  19. #34079
    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    I did think it was kind of funny that I haven't seen much of Thwart recently.
    I believe he only stalks the Off Topic forums now from what I remember seeing.

  20. #34080
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leobald View Post
    No need to overreact.
    So you think it is an overreaction to say that a system which is specifically designed to, at certain times, invalidate your vote because someone you have no idea who is, that you didn't elect, decided they'd rather vote for someone else, is not a democracy?

    It is literally made so that some times your vote matters diddly fucking squat. In those cases you might as well just not vote. "but then another elector would go!" who fucking cares, the one I apparently said should go didn't do what I fucking told him to, so what does it matter?

    Never in the history of the US have the electors elected somebody else than they were supposed to, and there is no reason to assume they ever will.
    But you're okay with a system where they could? I mean, let's assume that the 2016 election was 270/268 in Hillary's favour
    But Hillary still lost those 5 votes, and Donald still lost 2.. That means that now Donald is the winner, despite Hillary seemingly being in the lead, not only in the popular vote but in the electoral vote too.

    The electoral college is certainly an outdated system, but when it wasput in place, direct popular democracy was in no way the norm.
    But that was a couple hundred years ago. Time advances.

    The fact that, at any point, you could have a president that not only the majority of people didn't vote for, but that was projected to lose the EC, somehow win it all and become president is ludicrous.

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