Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Kathranis]

Why would they need to? Assuming they have the supreme court in their pocket.

Why should the SCOTUS risk so much to keep Trump in office for four more years? They have lifetime appointments.

And if we're going for fascist dictatorship, why would they back someone as incompetent as Trump?


I get the concern and the rhetoric is certainly worrying but I don't see this bozo pulling off a coup.

[Antiganon]

I know no way in which the state government, GOP-sympathetic or not, can compel the democrat electoral college voters assigned by the democrats to vote for Trump.

They send a different slate if electors entirely. The state legislature has supreme authority to determine how electors are chosen, if they they choose whimsy rather than elections, they technically have the legal right to do so.

[Breccia]

And if we're going for fascist dictatorship, why would they back someone as incompetent as Trump?

Timing. This is what they have and this is their last shot.

[Forogil]

The whole reason why the press held off so long on projecting the winner in Pennsylvania is because even though Biden was making up ground, they wanted to be sure in their call before they made it precisely because of Trump and his cult screeching "FRAUD!" and running around like their hair was on fire.

True which also means that as soon as some called it others could follow more safely, and additionally it was not only about being sure - but also about being seen as trustworthy. Calling as soon as it was clear that Biden would win PA would have meant calling it for Biden when Trump was still in the lead...

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They send a different slate if electors entirely. The state legislature has supreme authority to determine how electors are chosen, if they they choose whimsy rather than elections, they technically have the legal right to do so.

No, they cannot do that at this point in time.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/le...ride-electors/

[Edge-]

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

Reporter: "Senator, have you congratulated Vice President Biden yet?"

Sen. Ron Johnson: "No."

Reporter: "Why not?"

Johnson: "Nothing to congratulate him about."

Video in the link, but Ron Jonson needs to be careful with his language. If he keeps this up he'll have corporations bidding on his body to get access to the salt mines within.

[ati87]

So far, there's zero evidence they'll get anywhere near the SCOTUS. Every legal challenge I've seen them throw out so far has been pretty aggressively rejected and dismissed by lower court judges so far. And almost all the lawsuits about actual ballots are about tiny handfuls (hundreds) that have no chance of changing who won the state.

The idea is to through enough mud and to see what sticks. If for some reason you can invalidate enough votes you can maybe draw that to invalidatie more votes to the point you can undo some part of the election, maybe give the win to Trump.

Frankly it's hard to imagine any judge going down this route though. Unlike in 2000 when it was just about the recounts you are now trying force a judge to be part of that election in a direct way, not something you want to be part of really if your a judge.

Second problem with this route is if Trump is serious in his goals and achieves it at this point you kind of destroyed any legitimacy of the election
and the presidency. Hence why no judge would want to be part of this (going back to number 1)

[beanman12345]

Why should the SCOTUS risk so much to keep Trump in office for four more years? They have lifetime appointments.

And if we're going for fascist dictatorship, why would they back someone as incompetent as Trump?


I get the concern and the rhetoric is certainly worrying but I don't see this bozo pulling off a coup.

Another thing to keep in mind. look how much power these SCOTUS have. if they make trump dictator, that power diminsishes greatly if not forever gone. If he's dictator the constitution would be meaningless and therefore they're lifetime cushy powerful jobs are at risk. it's not gonna happen. Congress is different cause any election they might lose. SCOTUS are on the gravy train for life.

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Timing. This is what they have and this is their last shot.

Timing? a few months ago they had the PERFECT opportunity to rule the president is above the law. It's not gonna happen.

[Kaleredar]

They send a different slate if electors entirely. The state legislature has supreme authority to determine how electors are chosen, if they they choose whimsy rather than elections, they technically have the legal right to do so.

I believe they’d have to change the law to do so, no? And has been noted, the democrat governor of many of the states in question could simply veto such a change.

[Kathranis]

The idea is to through enough mud and to see what sticks. If for some reason you can invalidate enough votes you can maybe draw that to invalidatie more votes to the point you can undo some part of the election, maybe give the win to Trump.

That's just not what's happening though. These aren't top tier lawyers and legal teams. These are professional fuckups who have jobs due to nepotism and the best that the Trump campaign can afford, which ain't much.

If they want to pull off a fascist coup they aren't going to do it in the courts. And they have nowhere near a majority of government officials backing them. As many if not more Republican officials have denounced Trump as are supporting him, and none of the Democrats are. Neither is mainstream media.

I'm not even saying that the government isn't corrupt or that they don't want to do a fascism. It's just -- why wait until now, and on behalf of Trump? We just had months of protests, riots, and enforced lockdowns. This isn't the time for a coup, six months ago was.

[ati87]

That's just not what's happening though. These aren't top tier lawyers and legal teams. These are professional fuckups who have jobs due to nepotism and the best that the Trump campaign can afford, which ain't much.

If they want to pull off a fascist coup they aren't going to do it in the courts. And they have nowhere near a majority of government officials backing them. As many if not more Republican officials have denounced Trump as are supporting him, and none of the Democrats are. Neither is mainstream media.

I'm not even saying that the government isn't corrupt or that they don't want to do a fascism. It's just -- why wait until now, and on behalf of Trump? We just had months of protests, riots, and enforced lockdowns. This isn't the time for a coup, six months ago was.

Well these lawyers are just here to make money frankly so there fuck ups aren't that weird.
If your client comes to you and tells you to just make up shit than yes it will look like if your a failure because the orders you have are just that.

[Hadriker]

That's just not what's happening though. These aren't top tier lawyers and legal teams. These are professional fuckups who have jobs due to nepotism and the best that the Trump campaign can afford, which ain't much.

If they want to pull off a fascist coup they aren't going to do it in the courts. And they have nowhere near a majority of government officials backing them. As many if not more Republican officials have denounced Trump as are supporting him, and none of the Democrats are. Neither is mainstream media.

I'm not even saying that the government isn't corrupt or that they don't want to do a fascism. It's just -- why wait until now, and on behalf of Trump? We just had months of protests, riots, and enforced lockdowns. This isn't the time for a coup, six months ago was.

yeah. the lawsuits are dealing with at most 100s of ballots. nothing that would change the election outcome. Its a grift to suck more money from their supporters and to rile up the base.

We all know these small isolated incidents happen every election cycle. They are bound to in a nation that is casting 10 of millions of votes with its ridiculous assortment of local election laws.

The day that someone is actually successful at getting 10s of thousands of illegal ballots cast and counted is the day democracy dies in this country as we'll never be able to trust an election again. thankfully we are actually pretty good at this.

[Antiganon]

I believe they’d have to change the law to do so, no? And has been noted, the democrat governor of many of the states in question could simply veto such a change.

Depends on what the laws are in the states in question at present, and a judge's interpretation of that law.

Note here that three of the current justices (Roberts, Kavanaugh, Barrett) on SCOTUS were on Bush Jr's legal team in 2000, and Thomas concurred with the Rhenquist opinion giving FL to Bush. They would need either Gorsuch or Alito to agree with it, and I can't comment confidently whether I believe they would or not.

[Edge-]

https://www.salon.com/2020/11/10/mar...-she-cant-win/

McSally, who lost, also refuses to concede. So are Republicans who lost like...just gonna show up to do a job they weren't elected to do, aren't legally allowed to do, and can't do, and then cry fowl when the Capitol Police deny them entry or something?

[Paranoid Android]

Remember that voter fraud in PA.

BREAKING NEWS: Erie, Pa. #USPS whistleblower completely RECANTED his allegations of a supervisor tampering with mail-in ballots after being questioned by investigators, according to IG.

Oh this guy was part of Project Veritas. Go figure.

[Felya]

Remember that voter fraud in PA.

BREAKING NEWS: Erie, Pa. #USPS whistleblower completely RECANTED his allegations of a supervisor tampering with mail-in ballots after being questioned by investigators, according to IG.

Oh this guy was part of Project Veritas. Go figure.

Did he tell them how much he got paid, like the ballot harvesting guy? More or less? What’s the running rate to lie about elections?

[PhaelixWW]

Depends on what the laws are in the states in question at present, and a judge's interpretation of that law.

EDIT: Updated the source and text of these laws to reflect the current state.

Pennsylvania Stat. 25.14.IX §§2878:

Section 2878 - Presidential electors; selection by nominees; certification; vacancies

The nominee of each political party for the office of President of the United States shall, within thirty days after his nomination by the National convention of such party, nominate as many persons to be the candidates of his party for the office of presidential elector as the State is then entitled to. If for any reason the nominee of any political party for President of the United States fails or is unable to make the said nominations within the time herein provided, then the nominee for such party for the office of Vice-President of the United States shall, as soon as may be possible after the expiration of thirty days, make the nominations. The names of such nominees, with their residences and postoffice addresses, shall be certified immediately to the Secretary of the Commonwealth by the nominee for the office of President or Vice-President, as the case may be, making the nominations. Vacancies existing after the date of nomination of presidential electors shall be filled by the nominee for the office of President or Vice-President making the original nomination. Nominations made to fill vacancies shall be certified to the Secretary of the Commonwealth in the manner herein provided for in the case of original nominations.

Pennsylvania Stat. 25.14.XV §§3192

Section 3192 - Meeting of electors; duties

The electors chosen, as aforesaid, shall assemble at the seat of government of this Commonwealth, at 12 o'clock noon of the day which is, or may be, directed by the Congress of the United States, and shall then and there perform the duties enjoined upon them by the Constitution and laws of the United States.

Pennsylvania Stat. 25.14.XV §§3193

Section 3193 - Filling of vacancies existing in presidential electors

If any such presidential elector shall die, or for any cause fail to attend at the seat of government at the time appointed by law, the electors present shall proceed to choose viva voce a person of the same political party as such deceased or absent elector, to fill the vacancy occasioned thereby, and immediately after such choice the name of the person so chosen shall be transmitted by the presiding officer of the college to the Governor, who shall forthwith cause notice in writing to be given to such person of his election; and the person so elected (and not the person in whose place he shall have been chosen) shall be an elector and shall, with the other electors, perform the duties enjoined on them.

Michigan Comp. Laws §§168.42:

168.42 Presidential electors; selection at state political party conventions, certification.

In the year in which presidential electors are to be elected under section 43, each political party in this state shall choose at its fall state convention a number of candidates for electors of president and vice-president of the United States equal to the number of senators and representatives in congress that this state is entitled to elect. The chairperson and the secretary of the state central committee of each political party shall, within 1 business day after the conclusion of the state convention, forward by registered or certified mail a certificate containing the names of the candidates for electors to the secretary of state. The candidates for electors of president and vice-president who shall be considered elected are those whose names have been certified to the secretary of state by that political party receiving the greatest number of votes for those offices at the next November election.

Michigan Comp. Laws §§168.47:

168.47 Convening of presidential electors; time and place thereof; resignations; refusal or failure to vote; vacancies.

The electors of president and vice-president shall convene in the senate chamber at the capitol of the state at 2 p.m., eastern standard time, on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December following their election. At any time before receipt of the certificate of the governor or within 48 hours thereafter, an elector may resign by submitting his written and verified resignation to the governor. Failure to so resign signifies consent to serve and to cast his vote for the candidates for president and vice-president appearing on the Michigan ballot of the political party which nominated him. Refusal or failure to vote for the candidates for president and vice-president appearing on the Michigan ballot of the political party which nominated the elector constitutes a resignation from the office of elector, his vote shall not be recorded and the remaining electors shall forthwith fill the vacancy. The ballot used by the elector shall bear the name of the elector. If at the time of convening there is any vacancy caused by death, resignation, refusal or failure to vote, neglect to attend, or ineligibility of any person elected, or for any other cause, the qualified electors of president and vice-president shall proceed to fill such vacancy by ballot, by a plurality of votes. When all the electors appear and the vacancy shall be filled, they shall proceed to perform the duties of such electors, as required by the constitution and laws of the United States. If congress hereafter fixes a different day for such meeting, the electors shall meet and give their votes on the day designated by act of congress.

Wisconsin Stat. §§8.18:

8.18  Nomination of presidential electors.

(1)  Candidates for the senate and assembly nominated by each political party at the primary, the state officers and the holdover state senators of each political party shall meet in the state capitol at 10 a.m. on the first Tuesday in October of each year in which there is a presidential election.

(2) The purpose of the convention is to nominate one presidential elector from each congressional district and 2 electors from the state at large. The names of the nominees shall be certified immediately by the chairperson of the state committee of each party to the chairperson of the commission.

Wisconsin Stat. §§7.75:

7.75  Presidential electors meeting.

(1)  The electors for president and vice president shall meet at the state capitol following the presidential election at 12:00 noon the first Monday after the 2nd Wednesday in December. If there is a vacancy in the office of an elector due to death, refusal to act, failure to attend or other cause, the electors present shall immediately proceed to fill by ballot, by a plurality of votes, the electoral college vacancy. When all electors are present, or the vacancies filled, they shall perform their required duties under the constitution and laws of the United States.

(2) The presidential electors, when convened, shall vote by ballot for that person for president and that person for vice president who are, respectively, the candidates of the political party which nominated them under s. 8.18, the candidates whose names appeared on the nomination papers filed under s. 8.20, or the candidate or candidates who filed their names under s. 8.185 (2), except that at least one of the persons for whom the electors vote may not be an inhabitant of this state. A presidential elector is not required to vote for a candidate who is deceased at the time of the meeting.

[Paranoid Android]

Did he tell them how much he got paid, like the ballot harvesting guy? More or less? What’s the running rate to lie about elections?

Would be nice if they did investigate why he recanted. OMFG what's his name from project veritas. That piece of crap has had to commit multiple crimes.

[Thepersona]

Would be nice if they did investigate why he recanted. OMFG what's his name from project veritas. That piece of crap has had to commit multiple crimes.

In a decent democracy, the people in charge of project veritas should be charged with election tampering and conspiracy to overthrow an elected government.

[Edge-]

Remember that voter fraud in PA.

BREAKING NEWS: Erie, Pa. #USPS whistleblower completely RECANTED his allegations of a supervisor tampering with mail-in ballots after being questioned by investigators, according to IG.

Oh this guy was part of Project Veritas. Go figure.

I hope he gets jail time for it. Don't lie under penalty of law.

[PhaelixWW]

I hope he gets jail time for it. Don't lie under penalty of law.

I mean, don't perjure yourself normally, but, like, especially not about an election.