Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Breccia]

Wayne County, Michigan has certified its election results.

It's okay, I wanted to have a heart attack anyhow.

[Zaydin]

https://twitter.com/marceelias/statu...84933365010433

Wayne County, Michigan has certified its election results.

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Well the just held another vote in Wayne County MI and unanimously voted certify the election results so the Constitution in winning so far.

Turns out massive public outrage can achieve results.

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It's okay, I wanted to have a heart attack anyhow.

I got so stressed out at first I nearly stress vomited.

[Thepersona]

It's okay, I wanted to have a heart attack anyhow.

Sooo... Michigan is already done?

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Turns out massive public outrage can achieve results.

As a chilean, i cannot agree more.

[Breccia]

Just as the Michigan thing happens--

The board of canvassers in Michigan’s largest county reversed course late Tuesday, voting unanimously to certify the election results after initially being deadlocked in a party-line vote.

The Michigan secretary of state’s office confirmed that the Wayne County Board of Canvassers voted by a 4-0 margin to certify the election results in Wayne County, which is heavily Democratic and includes Detroit, and that the board is requesting that Jocelyn Benson, the state’s top elections official, investigate any discrepancies in vote totals.

The unanimous decision marks a 180-degree turn from just hours earlier Tuesday night when the panel’s two Republicans voted against certification, sparking celebrations from the GOP and an uproar from Democrats who said the initial vote was simply delaying the inevitable.

-- new shit is thrown at the wall in Arizona.

GOP seeks to postpone Maricopa County election certification

The Arizona Republican Party has asked a judge to bar Maricopa County from certifying its Nov. 3 election results, including Democrat Joe Biden’s win over President Donald Trump, until the court issues a decision about the party’s lawsuit seeking a new hand-count of a sampling of ballots.

The GOP made the request Monday night after the county revealed officials planned to approve the returns on Thursday or Friday.

A judge is scheduled to hear arguments in the lawsuit Wednesday afternoon. The county faces a Nov. 23 deadline for certifying its results.

The lawsuit focuses on an audit of a sampling of ballots that is required to test the accuracy of tabulated results. The county has already completed the audit and said no discrepancies were found.

But the state party still wants the sample measured on a precinct level, rather than the audit that was conducted of the county’s new vote centers, which let people vote at any location across the county.

The county has asked for the lawsuit to be dismissed, saying the GOP participated in the audit it now contests

The Republican Party, as shown by the actions of the actual Republican Party not just one or two people who happen to be Republicans, is directly attacking democracy. They don't care about ethics, rules, laws or the will of the people. They just want to be in power.

[beanman12345]

Just as the Michigan thing happens--



-- new shit is thrown at the wall in Arizona.

GOP seeks to postpone Maricopa County election certification



The Republican Party, as shown by the actions of the actual Republican Party not just one or two people who happen to be Republicans, is directly attacking democracy. They don't care about ethics, rules, laws or the will of the people. They just want to be in power.

"a political party must be dedicated to the advancement of a moral cause, otherwise it is just a conspiracy to seize power." - the last decent republican president.

[Benggaul]

The Trump admin's goal here is to try to keep the election from being certified so that it ends up in the House. What we saw in Michigan tonight was part of that. Fortunately every effort so far is failing miserably--mostly due to inept lawyers with zero evidence. Be ready for this shit to continue until all states have certified, though. And be ready to join the enormous public outcry when they try it next. It's likely that same outcry is why the Michigan decision was reversed so quickly.

[Breccia]

It's likely that same outcry is why the Michigan decision was reversed so quickly.

I hope that, yes, the will of the people is not intentionally obstructed.

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We might have covered this. There is so much stupid, it's hard to keep track.

Trump files lawsuit in Nevada asking that he be declared the winner of the Election in Nevada.

"Har har. What does it really say?"

According to a court filing released by the campaign, the lawsuit requests a court order that Trump “be declared the winner of the Election in Nevada,” or, alternatively, that the results in the state are annulled and no winner is certified there.

"What the actual fuck."

The lawsuit claims, providing no evidence, that “fraud and abuse renders the purported results of the Nevada election illegitimate.”

A focus of the complaint is a signature verification machine the Trump campaign has said was flawed. The machine was used in Clark County, which includes Las Vegas. The lawsuit also alleged that observers were denied meaningful access to the ballot counting process.

The lawsuit appears to be “parroting erroneous allegations made by partisans without first-hand knowledge of the facts,” said Dan Kulin, a spokesman for the Clark County Election Department.

“We have not seen their complaint yet; however, it sounds like they are repeating allegations the courts have already rejected,” Kulin said.

[postman1782]

I hope that, yes, the will of the people is not intentionally obstructed.

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We might have covered this. There is so much stupid, it's hard to keep track.

Trump files lawsuit in Nevada asking that he be declared the winner of the Election in Nevada.

"Har har. What does it really say?"



"What the actual fuck."

They really are fucking desperate.

[Adam Jensen]

I hope that, yes, the will of the people is not intentionally obstructed.

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We might have covered this. There is so much stupid, it's hard to keep track.

Trump files lawsuit in Nevada asking that he be declared the winner of the Election in Nevada.

"Har har. What does it really say?"



"What the actual fuck."

I get that Donald Trump is dumb as all hell.

But where the fuck do these lawyers even come from?

[Kaleredar]

I get that Donald Trump is dumb as all hell.

But where the fuck do these lawyers even come from?

Ones who still think there's money to get out of Trump for legal fees, apparently.

[Zaydin]

I hope that, yes, the will of the people is not intentionally obstructed.

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We might have covered this. There is so much stupid, it's hard to keep track.

Trump files lawsuit in Nevada asking that he be declared the winner of the Election in Nevada.

"Har har. What does it really say?"



"What the actual fuck."

Why the fuck haven't the Trump campaign and the Republican party been branded vexatious litigants by the courts yet?

[Mormolyce]

Yeah, who needs context when we can just make sweeping statements that aren't supported by the facts.

If I need to explain to you why the Democratic primary is not representative then I'm just wasting my time.

[gondrin]

I get that Donald Trump is dumb as all hell.

But where the fuck do these lawyers even come from?

Simpsons did it first. Lionel Hutz, attorney for hire.

[Mormolyce]

Whether his approval ratings were high or not, he racked up 70 odd million votes, which is still nuts for someone as batshit as him. Obama would've had a hard time against Trump. He'd have won, but Trump is this weird outlier candidate that has created a ridiculously stern coalition of voters. I don't like it anymore than you do. It's just a sign of how polarised the country is right now, moreso than 5 or 10 years ago. It is what it is.

Obama would've mopped the floor with Trump.

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I'd just like to point out that as much as most of us here dislike him, he did actually get ~73 million votes, which is more than Obama did in 2008 and actually the second highest in history (after Biden this year)... so it feels a bit disingenuous to call him "weak" or "unpopular".

Objectively he was neither, even if we think he should have been.

Objectively he is the least popular President in modern US history. Seriously, go look at his polls. Only modern President to never break the 50% approval mark. The only other President whose popularity remotely matches Trump's is Gerald Ford, even he was above 50 at the start - until he pardoned Nixon and fell off a cliff. A deeply unpopular President who served less than one full term, and never won election as President OR VP, two positions he held by default...

Those voters aren't voting Trump because they love him so much. The figures do not support that conclusion. You're conflating the President's popularity with the number of people voting Republican, and THAT is what I'm trying to tell you.

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Biden appears to have lost Florida pretty much entirely thanks to Miami-Dade, and pretty much entirely there because voters were so lazy and stupid that they fell for "Biden is a socialist" propaganda.

Right. So that conclusively puts to bed the notion that running a conservative establishment candidate Biden will convince people the Presidential candidate isn't a socialist.

This straight up proves it. So tell the Democrats to stop wasting their time with them.

[Endus]

Right. So that conclusively puts to bed the notion that running a conservative establishment candidate Biden will convince people the Presidential candidate isn't a socialist.

This straight up proves it. So tell the Democrats to stop wasting their time with them.

I mean, I've been arguing that for years.

They're gonna label you a socialist anyway. May as well go with the "yeah, so?" defense, rather than flailing and trying to counter it. It only carries weight because the Democrats let it.

[Mormolyce]

Obama was a pretty centrist candidate, which of course didn't stop the right from pretending he was a gay Muslim Kenyan communist, or whatever. People don't really vote on policy, though--they vote on things like gut feelings or whichever candidate makes them feel more masculine, etc. Obama is genuinely and preternaturally charismatic, which appeals to otherwise weak-minded right-wing authoritarian voters, which is where you get a lot of Obama->Trump voters, because those same voters are drawn to Trump's faux charisma / faux strength. A couple interesting articles I read today that speak to exactly this--this is an interview with Ruth Ben-Ghiat on strongmen: https://the.ink/p/strongmen and this one is about progressives and moderates:

"Left-wing populists often believe that there’s a silent majority who agree with them, if only they can be organized to go to the polls. If that were true, though, an election with record high turnout should have been much better for progressives. Instead, 2020 was a reminder of something most older liberals long ago had to come to terms with: The voters who live in the places that determine political control in this country tend to be more conservative than we are." Which I link because I also believed that until I did a deeper dive on some of the data--conservative Democrats are very, very conservative.

I would also add that Florida's Republican party organizational infrastructure is unparalleled, and I would also *also* add that this election stripped all illusions about "this is not who we are." If 70 million people thought another round of Trump and the end of our democracy was a swell idea, then this is who we are. Democrats can either come to terms with that and get their shit together, being smarter with messaging and targeting (do you ever hear Republicans say, "We don't actually have any policy ideas because we don't give a shit about the masses, we just want to dismantle the social safety net and transfer the nation's wealth to the oligarchs, and instead of legislating, we'll subcontract out policy decisions to our shiny radical right Supreme Court" or, "We're going to disenfranchise voters so we can gerrymander and ensure super majorities so we can stack courts from bottom to top in order to cement our batshit minority rule in perpetuity"? no? then why do Democrats have to blurt out our every thought and mud wrestle with other in public?), or we can welcome our minority party overlords.

You don't need to tell me this stuff, I'm well familiar with it. What I'm telling you is that this hoary old wisdom has been disproved in 2016 and 2020.

Nor am I some left wing progressive who believes America has a problem with progressive turnout. It doesn't, it has a problem with (a) lousy left wing candidates who stand for nothing and (b) a corrupt electoral system.

I'm an Australian swing voter, ie the exact kind of person the Democratic establishment claims it's great at appealing to (if I were American). And I'm telling you that I wouldn't vote Democrat if I lived in America, precisely because I am not content with being offered the same stale status quo year after year with only the threat that the other side is horrible to motivate me.

I agree about one thing: Obama had charisma. Kind of seems like that should be a requirement. But you don't get a charismatic candidate who's there to push the policy equivalent of a bowl of warm oatmeal. What you get is a dry old cracker like Biden.

P.S. If Florida's Republican operation is so great, what's the establishment Dem's excuse? That's literally their job, and their only selling point. Are they surprised to learn Florida is a battleground state lol? If their ideas were working at all, they'd be working there, and they aren't. You're going to have to accept that the received wisdom of appealing to the middle is wrong.

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I mean, I've been arguing that for years.

They're gonna label you a socialist anyway. May as well go with the "yeah, so?" defense, rather than flailing and trying to counter it. It only carries weight because the Democrats let it.

And since the label no longer matters, run whatever policies appeal to people the most.

America fucking loves "socialism". Those old fucks who say "get your government hands off my medicare" prove that. "Repeal Obamacare, just don't touch my lovely ACA". Meanwhile the rich are helping themselves to giant spoonfuls of government handouts, bailouts and subsidies on the other end of town. I don't think most American "capitalists" would know what capitalism was if it bit them in the ass. The only thing they don't like is the big scary "s" word, which Republicans have overused to the point of meaninglessness anyway.

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I get that Donald Trump is dumb as all hell.

But where the fuck do these lawyers even come from?

Given his previous MVP legal team was Jay Sekulow the ambulance chaser and Rudy Guiliani the human self-incrimination, I can only imagine the barrel bottoms he's scraping now.

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They really are fucking desperate.

I suspect they have no intention to win, they just need to keep making a show of contesting the election to create a false impression that there's something to contest, push propaganda to their base about being robbed, and roll on with all those donation campaigns they're ripping people off in.

[Zantos]

So we know Graham is reaching out to the SoS for Georgia to pressure him to toss votes, and apparently reaching out to...someone in AZ and NV (he claimed the SoS, but the NV SoS denied speaking with him) over votes.

I told my uncle this. I left out Trumps name and told him all of the details. He said "Not surprised. It definitely happened". Then I mentioned that it was Trump who was the one doing it and instantly he was like "like I said, take it with a grain of salt. the media lies".

Trump needs jail. This is ridiculous.

[DingDongKing]

Obama would've mopped the floor with Trump.

The reaction to a black man being President is what led to so many white people turning inside out and voting for a racist to succeed him. You’ll be surprised the lengths people go to in order to show their hatred of ‘others’. Because they’re cowards.

[Ausr]

Just as the Michigan thing happens--



-- new shit is thrown at the wall in Arizona.

GOP seeks to postpone Maricopa County election certification



The Republican Party, as shown by the actions of the actual Republican Party not just one or two people who happen to be Republicans, is directly attacking democracy. They don't care about ethics, rules, laws or the will of the people. They just want to be in power.

You know, I got a little shit for even suggesting in the "How do we fix our election system" thread that we should just ban the Republican Party, being told that doesn't really fix the system, blah blah blah.

It totally does. It gets rid of these fuck faces.

[Levelfive]

You don't need to tell me this stuff, I'm well familiar with it. What I'm telling you is that this hoary old wisdom has been disproved in 2016 and 2020.

Nor am I some left wing progressive who believes America has a problem with progressive turnout. It doesn't, it has a problem with (a) lousy left wing candidates who stand for nothing and (b) a corrupt electoral system.

I'm an Australian swing voter, ie the exact kind of person the Democratic establishment claims it's great at appealing to (if I were American). And I'm telling you that I wouldn't vote Democrat if I lived in America, precisely because I am not content with being offered the same stale status quo year after year with only the threat that the other side is horrible to motivate me.

I agree about one thing: Obama had charisma. Kind of seems like that should be a requirement. But you don't get a charismatic candidate who's there to push the policy equivalent of a bowl of warm oatmeal. What you get is a dry old cracker like Biden.

P.S. If Florida's Republican operation is so great, what's the establishment Dem's excuse? That's literally their job, and their only selling point. Are they surprised to learn Florida is a battleground state lol? If their ideas were working at all, they'd be working there, and they aren't. You're going to have to accept that the received wisdom of appealing to the middle is wrong.

I'm not sure what you're saying was disproved in 2016 and 2020--Biden (re)flipped the "blue wall" and Arizona, and took Nevada (which is something like a red, red, blue, blue, red, red, red, now blue state), which affirms what I said above. Those conservative Democrats in WI, MI, PA were *never* going to vote for Hillary Clinton--you might think, as I did, that that's because she was a centrist or a corporatist or w/e and that people voted against that, but the numbers flip from Sanders / Clinton and Sanders / Biden suggests otherwise. You might be tempted to attribute that to Hillary's Hillaryness, but the majority of anti-Hillary Dems voted for Trump, not Jill Stein, and you saw the same voting patterns with Elizabeth Warren. There's plenty of good data that show people voted for Trump out of status threat, not "economic anxiety," which accords with the article I linked about strongmen, and again underscores the point that policy is not what motivates most voters in this country.

As to Florida, Dems have no excuse for failing to mobilize or do a better job of micro-targeting or mounting a coherent counter-offensive to whatever shameless lies the Republicans peddle or even just reading the room--they're terrible at politics, no argument. Part of why they're terrible at politics, though, is precisely because they keep getting suckered into playing defense and trying to campaign on policy.