1. #35081
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I really couldn't care less about the slogan. I'm tired of people getting caught up it, allowing Republicans to dictate the direction of police reform because of it. Many people who identify themselves as being part of the 'Left' would abandon 'police reform' movement because 'defund the police' is too problematic for them. I wonder, know, those people weren't for the cause anyway but only cared about optics. So change the optics. They shouldn't let a group that's not going to vote with them anyway to control the narrative. Be an ally, not a roadblock.
    Never join a marketing team, they would throw you out with a quickness.

    Would I support a movement to REFORM the police? Gladly.
    Would I support a movement to DEFUND the police? Not a chance.

    Would I support a movement to reduce their funding to send it to other programs to help them where they are lacking and make things easier for them? Sure but that isn't in the slogan and the average voter isn't going to go looking for the policy.

    So, all they see is "Defund the Police" show me where it says REFORM in that?

    edit: Dropping it now and going AFK. If you guys can't figure it out yet, then honestly I am not able to inform you on it.
    Last edited by Fugus; 2020-11-13 at 12:59 AM.
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  2. #35082
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    No.
    Jaime Harrison had to fight uphill in SC...a red state and that means he had to pull a lot of votes from everywhere. And spending time and capital what everyone already knows how "defund" is defined would likely have cost him more than it did...when he decided to repudiate the slogan.
    Youre making a claim about an unsupported hypothetical with a candidate that got his ass kicked.

    I could just as easily say he would have won if he just shouted 'DEFUND THE POLICE" on the corner...but we all knew that would be ridiculous.

    Just as ridiculous that he only lost by 10% because he did not say "defund" the police.

    Or maybe we can say he let Graham run the board and outplay him?

  3. #35083
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    One of the Democrat candidates was pretty far ahead in their race. Unfortunately they didn't get the 50% required. I think there can be reasonable optimism that he might pull out a win, but it will require a lot of campaigning and help from Abrams' registration army. I don't think they'll be able to win both races, however.
    The AP seems pretty sure that whatever party wins the state will win both seats. I seriously doubt that, and feel like it'll be split as well.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  4. #35084
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Here's the reality about Georgia: It's been a Republican stronghold for many years. It flipped blue for Biden, but just barely. A huge number of those voters are people who HATE Trump but still swing Republican and will likely vote for Republican Senators still. "Getting money for free from the government" is probably one of the last thing Republicans want hanging in front of themselves. The Republican candidates will likely scream socialism and win. You can't appeal to people who swing right with free money for covid relief, and I wouldn't really blame democrats if they lost.

    If anything, these senate races will show how much of a miracle it was that Biden even won the state. I could be wrong and Democrats may win the seats, but I think that now that the general election is over, the people who wanted Trump out are done with elections, and the blue vote is going to be much more insignificant in runoffs. That's just how things swing in red states.
    I refuse to believe that given the choice of meaningful stimulus directly to them, or voting republican, that more people would vote republican.

    Call me naive or whatever, i'm gonna hold onto this one, for my own sanity.

    You sit these people down in front of 2 tables, one is the democrat table with thousands of dollars in stimulus, and the other table is republican with the usual republican shit, most people are gonna go to the democratic table.

  5. #35085
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Literally not happening, which is why Tim Scott's proposal was resoundingly rejected by Democrats as grossly insufficient. And why the House passed a much more broad and aggressive bill in the House - https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...n-house-339691

    We can argue it doesn't go far enough (IMO it doesn't), but Republicans are in no way, shape or form dictating the direction of police reform. Which is also why NYC just announced that they'll start a test program to send non-police in response to requests for non-violent mental health 911 calls - https://gothamist.com/news/nyc-exper...l-health-calls

    So I don't know what they're "dictating".
    Come on now. Everyone who participates this thread knows the House Dems passes bills left and right because they know they don't have actually stand behind them. McConnell will gladly absolve them of any responsibility. Anything that they might actually have to answer to has to pass through one of Pelosci's focus groups.

    All in all, what I'm reading is that New Yorkers move another step towards proper police reform by getting behind "Defund the Police".

  6. #35086
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Come on now. Everyone who participates this thread knows the House Dems passes bills left and right because they know they don't have actually stand behind them. McConnell will gladly absolve them of any responsibility. Anything that they might actually have to answer to has to pass through one of Pelosci's focus groups.
    Cool, so nothing Democrats in the House do matters because McConnell? That's a good way to casually dismiss anything they pass. And it still doesn't show that they're letting Republicans dictate the approach, because they told Tim Scott to fuck off.

    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    All in all, what I'm reading is that New Yorkers move another step towards proper police reform by getting behind "Defund the Police".
    Yes, this is happening at the local level. Which is where it's most impactful, and where it's needed most.

    Because again. Democrats aren't letting Republicans dictate the direction of police reform. Despite your attempts to state otherwise, without evidence.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.ajc.com/politics/live-up...LTBGDT47CMOBU/

    Republicans are getting their GA recount, but they're still mad about it. What sore losers.

  7. #35087
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    2020 has been a long year, I know, but when when activists started to say 'Defund the police' it was immediately backed up policy and examples. Immediately. Spokespeople were sure to explain what 'defund the police' means, damn near ad nauseum.

    Democrats chose the the lazy route where they chose to appease Republicans instead of work with the cause...and it cost the party seats.
    It probably bears pointing out that the abusive, totalitarian, racist shitshow that is American police culture isn't a Republican creation. It's a bipartisan creation, with broad support from both sides of the political aisle. That kind of racist brutalization was the kind of common ground that used to exist between both parties, that they could really come together to propagate.

    That's sort of the problem.

    So of course a lot of establishment Democrats are opposed to that kind of reform. They're just generally smart enough to couch it in ways that don't immediately betray the subjugative intent.

  8. #35088
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    The AP seems pretty sure that whatever party wins the state will win both seats. I seriously doubt that, and feel like it'll be split as well.
    Yeah I read that. I wish I had their optimism. I believe both have a chance...but a sweep seems unlikely, especially given that both parties will be putting their full weight behind the campaigns and the GOP have a longer history there--of cheating.

  9. #35089
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say a few ads on Hulu did it for them. I said I saw it on a few Hulu ads and I don't even barely watch TV. God knows how many times they had it shoved in their face.

    Really, how is it THIS hard for you to understand something THIS basic?
    I understand you might be close to the these people but think these are adults with basic thinking skills they weren't swayed by a few ads give them a little bit of credit. Instead of trying to so hard to make excuses for them face the obvious they weren't going to do it to begin with if it wasn't defund the police, it would be taxes, regulation or a number of things people use for their bad choices.

  10. #35090
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Here's the reality about Georgia: It's been a Republican stronghold for many years. It flipped blue for Biden, but just barely. A huge number of those voters are people who HATE Trump but still swing Republican and will likely vote for Republican Senators still. "Getting money for free from the government" is probably one of the last thing Republicans want hanging in front of themselves. The Republican candidates will likely scream socialism and win. You can't appeal to people who swing right with free money for covid relief, and I wouldn't really blame democrats if they lost.

    If anything, these senate races will show how much of a miracle it was that Biden even won the state. I could be wrong and Democrats may win the seats, but I think that now that the general election is over, the people who wanted Trump out are done with elections, and the blue vote is going to be much more insignificant in runoffs. That's just how things swing in red states.
    Maybe, but I don't think it's the republican stronghold it was 4 years ago. I don't believe it's just Trump, but there being enough eligible voters and getting those eligible voters out to vote. Remember just 2 years ago, Kemp literally threw hundreds of thousands of voters off the rolls, and only just barely won against Abrams. I don't know how the senate will pan out, but I don't think it's as strongly republican as it was half a decade ago, and imo is now a deeper shade of blueish purple then AZ is, and AZ lost both senate seats in the last 2 years. That state can and should turn more democrat for a long time, the problem being the republican state legislation suppressing Atlanta residents so they can keep power. So that's a fight Dem's can't give up on.

  11. #35091
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I understand you might be close to the these people but think these are adults with basic thinking skills they weren't swayed by a few ads give them a little bit of credit. Instead of trying to so hard to make excuses for them face the obvious they weren't going to do it to begin with if it wasn't defund the police, it would be taxes, regulation or a number of things people use for their bad choices.
    Dude, you are as lost on this was a Trump supporters are on Trump. The fact that you keep making excuses NOT to get it is something else.

    You put words in peoples mouths you ignore what you are told and make excuses and everything.

    While some of them I might be close with, others I actively have joked at for the stuff they think. Try again.

    Actually, don't try again, if you can't figure this out by now, all I can say is NEVER join a marketing class and never try and get a job in the field. You would fail the class and cost any company millions or more from being unable to figure out why the message matters to the general public.
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  12. #35092
    Trump taking a shot at Fox News is just the cherry on top to this charade dragging on. If there's one thing I can agree with Trump, it's that the media is the problem, but for entirely different reasons. The main reason why we have two groups of people living in entirely different worlds.

  13. #35093
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Here's the reality about Georgia: It's been a Republican stronghold for many years. It flipped blue for Biden, but just barely. A huge number of those voters are people who HATE Trump but still swing Republican and will likely vote for Republican Senators still. "Getting money for free from the government" is probably one of the last thing Republicans want hanging in front of themselves. The Republican candidates will likely scream socialism and win. You can't appeal to people who swing right with free money for covid relief, and I wouldn't really blame democrats if they lost.

    If anything, these senate races will show how much of a miracle it was that Biden even won the state. I could be wrong and Democrats may win the seats, but I think that now that the general election is over, the people who wanted Trump out are done with elections, and the blue vote is going to be much more insignificant in runoffs. That's just how things swing in red states.
    How about getting your job back because a functioning government can build a system to help businesses reopen?

    You can't get back to work if there aren't jobs for you, and even if there is a job, you are stuck at home helping your kids with online school.

    Economic stimulus is needed. It is PROVEN that for every dollar spent on economic stimulus to the individual, more than a dollar in economic activity is generated. You give me 1200 to do whatever I want and expand unemployment to cover my lost wages 100%, I'm going out and buying a new TV and supplies to build myself a badass desk for my battlestation, and getting back on track with bills that I have out into forebearance. That employs cashiers and salespeople at local businesses, keeps the finance industry that underwrites so much of the US economy moving smoothly, and if everyone does basically the same thing with their money, that grows the WHOLE economy, creating jobs for people like me who are out of work with minimal prospects (and FAR more applicants than available jobs, even in my field [IT support]).


    And that says nothing of providing funding for increased testing and sanitation/ventilation in the places that HAVE to be open for the economy to function, like schools, grocery stores, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Woods View Post
    LOL never change guys. I guess you won't because conservatism.
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    I do care what people on this forum think of me.
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    This site is amazing. It's comments like this, that make this site amazing.

  14. #35094
    Department of Homeland Security calls election "the most secure in American history"

    “There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes or was in any way compromised," members of the Election Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council (GCC) Executive Committee said in a statement.

    https://www.axios.com/cisa-election-...1829a4aef.html

    So then there's that...

  15. #35095
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Dude, you are as lost on this was a Trump supporters are on Trump. The fact that you keep making excuses NOT to get it is something else.

    You put words in peoples mouths you ignore what you are told and make excuses and everything.

    While some of them I might be close with, others I actively have joked at for the stuff they think. Try again.

    Actually, don't try again, if you can't figure this out by now, all I can say is NEVER join a marketing class and never try and get a job in the field. You would fail the class and cost any company millions or more from being unable to figure out why the message matters to the general public.
    sigh we are talking around each other again basic critical thinking what are the odds that this one thing is what turned them off? as you said COVID-19, social security, healthcare cost Trump votes. The person you are talking about put a slogan before all these things.

    I understand marketing perfectly worked for a focus group firm for years but you forgot the other side Pepsi doesn't win automatically because there's coke. There was a bigger counter narrative than that one issue far outweighing it by leaps and bounds wish you could see my point.

  16. #35096
    Quote Originally Posted by Eviscero View Post
    Department of Homeland Security calls election "the most secure in American history"

    “There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes or was in any way compromised," members of the Election Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council (GCC) Executive Committee said in a statement.

    https://www.axios.com/cisa-election-...1829a4aef.html

    So then there's that...
    Someone is going to find themselves fired for annoying Trump with this, given how petty he is.

  17. #35097
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    sigh we are talking around each other again basic critical thinking what are the odds that this one thing is what turned them off? as you said COVID-19, social security, healthcare cost Trump votes. The person you are talking about put a slogan before all these things.

    I understand marketing perfectly worked for a focus group firm for years but you forgot the other side Pepsi doesn't win automatically because there's coke. There was a bigger counter narrative than that one issue far outweighing it by leaps and bounds wish you could see my point.
    It wasn't them putting all those before all of them. Like I said, they didn't vote at all. They were as non-political as they came. They weren't voting for Trump because his crap but they refused to vote for Biden either because of that.

    If this was a world where everyone was educated and informed on an issue could vote, we wouldn't be in this mess but the uninformed get to vote too and many vote based on just that little level of information.

    I hate it, I truly do, but this is what we have. And marketing is a big part of it, the Republicans learned that, the Democrats still haven't figured it out yet.

    The Democrats want to go on policy but suck at marketing.
    The Republicans policies suck butt and and swallow but they are good at marketing.
    And now we are here.
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  18. #35098
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    It wasn't them putting all those before all of them. Like I said, they didn't vote at all. They were as non-political as they came. They weren't voting for Trump because his crap but they refused to vote for Biden either because of that.

    If this was a world where everyone was educated and informed on an issue could vote, we wouldn't be in this mess but the uninformed get to vote too and many vote based on just that little level of information.

    I hate it, I truly do, but this is what we have. And marketing is a big part of it, the Republicans learned that, the Democrats still haven't figured it out yet.

    The Democrats want to go on policy but suck at marketing.
    The Republicans policies suck butt and and swallow but they are good at marketing.
    And now we are here.
    We actually agree on democrat sucking at marketing but you are acting like this is a regular election cycle my point was they had 4 years of Trump marketing too if that didn't move them to act nothing would have. I don't think it's education or information some people don't care because of the electoral college, whoever is president doesn't matter to them etc.

    If these people weren't really voting before they were non political as you said they really weren't going to start no matter what. I can think of a number of elections before this where they should have voted 2008 Obama for example. If it's the people we are both thinking of I can't think of a single thing that would make them vote every election they tell me they would only to find some reason not to bother.

  19. #35099
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    You know you are right that the slogan cost seats but for the wrong reasons. Democrats are underperforming with minorities because the discussion is about a dumb ass slogan instead of the policy itself.

    Its obvious people don't realize how unattractive it is to the minority voter when Democrats bend over backwards to Republican misinformation, even going as far to cosign it.
    Democratic senators are continuing their attacks on AOC.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/aoc-twitt...231526807.html

    Title: AOC’s Twitter explodes after posting single photo in response to Senator’s rejection of ‘crazy socialist agenda’

    Excerpts:

    Senator Mnuchin:

    “I'm a proud West Virginia Democrat. We are the party of working men and women,” the tweet reads. “We want to protect Americans' jobs & healthcare. We do not have some crazy socialist agenda, and we do not believe in defunding the police.”
    This tweet makes it pretty clear that he views liberals as his main enemy.

    We bowed down to Biden. And now, on this board here, and also across the country and in the Senate, Biden supporters are making it clear - thank you very much for your vote, now fuck off.

    I no longer care how the two Georgia Senate seats go. McConnell right now is the face of people that hate liberals. If he loses power, it is clear that Senators like Mnuchin will take up his anti-liberal cause.

    I expected democrats to stab us in the back. I just did not expect it to happen so soon.

  20. #35100
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    I refuse to believe that given the choice of meaningful stimulus directly to them, or voting republican, that more people would vote republican.

    Call me naive or whatever, i'm gonna hold onto this one, for my own sanity.

    You sit these people down in front of 2 tables, one is the democrat table with thousands of dollars in stimulus, and the other table is republican with the usual republican shit, most people are gonna go to the democratic table.
    No really, people have become terrified of "Free money from the government" by years of classical conditioning training them to terrified of communist democrats who want to put white people in concentration camps. You have no idea how much people believe this shit, but it's how it is.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

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