1. #35441
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    37,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    The point of a slogan isn't to be be "unratfuckable". The point of a slogan is to get people on your side of the issue.

    "Defund the Police" is a bad slogan not because the Republicans can use it against you. It's a bad slogan because it doesn't actually tell anyone what it wants to accomplish. All it says is "Take money away from the police". It does not say "Re-invest that money in ways that can more effectively deal with the issues that the police are normally sent to deal with". It cedes control of the narrative to the Republicans. It makes the fight about the slogan...which is exactly what you want to avoid.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I could say the same thing about you. Right now the Republicans control the narrative behind "Defund the Police". It's become about the slogan...and not about the idea.
    This is probably the most shortsighted thing you could have possibly said.

    "We think that basic medicare should be expanded to the entire population similar to the system every single western nation has including our neighbours north and all our allies in Europe."

    "Democrats want to create death panels and take away healthcare from you. They also want to create a socialist-communist society where death panels kill republicans! They only want to do this so they can give all the illegals healthcare and take away jobs from Americans! if they give us healthcare, what's next?! What about my freedom!"

    You're acting like Republicans think rationally and therefore a slogan can't be fucked. Come back to the real world.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Of course I can't, it's an entirely subjective issue within a subjective arena. But I can objectively show you that the GOP used the poor naming convention against candidates, and that the effort was effective.

    And that's not even the point.

    The bigger issue is the movements inability to recognize they wasting a historic opportunity with an inability to admit they chose a poor name/slogan. And that is also your core issue. You can't recognize being wrong. There are at least four posters on this forum, including me, who are on the movements side, can accurately explain what the issues are and why the movement is so important, telling you the name itself is causing serious problems and should be changed - and you're ignoring that entirely.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I can't disagree with you, at all.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Perfect - Blue Plus Two.
    meme wars don't mean shit when the base doesn't really care about what people say or what the substance is... when healthcare like every other ally we have gets translated to communist that wants to make death panels.... please tell me why the fuck we're even talking about the nuances of fucking slogans?

    Republicans are lost and will stay lost why the fuck should any one give a fuck what they rat fuck?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  2. #35442
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Of course I can't, it's an entirely subjective issue within a subjective arena. But I can objectively show you that the GOP used the poor naming convention against candidates, and that the effort was effective.
    FWIW They ran endless ads here in Arizona trumpeting the whole "Defund the police" slogan ... and yet Arizona flipped blue. And elected a Democrat Senator. They screamed "socialist" every chance they got, and yet Arizona flipped blue. So many ads with AOC's face and Nancy Pelosi's (that noted communist) face, and yet Arizona flipped blue.

    Seems to me that good candidates win despite "poor messaging" and poor candidates get swallowed up by it.

    Oh, and we legalized recreational marijuana.

    Stand up for what you believe in and people WILL follow you. Run away from what your opponent claims of you and people will just see you as weak. If the Democratic Party doesn't start to stand for something, there will be another Donald Trump.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  3. #35443
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post

    You're acting like Republicans think rationally and therefore a slogan can't be fucked. Come back to the real world.
    ?
    You didn't understand my point at all.

    Read it again.

  4. #35444
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post

    Republicans are lost and will stay lost why the fuck should any one give a fuck what they rat fuck?
    These aren't just shit slogans to people who go out of their way to be disingenuous. They are just shit slogans end of story.

  5. #35445
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    FWIW They ran endless ads here in Arizona trumpeting the whole "Defund the police" slogan ... and yet Arizona flipped blue. And elected a Democrat Senator. They screamed "socialist" every chance they got, and yet Arizona flipped blue. So many ads with AOC's face and Nancy Pelosi's (that noted communist) face, and yet Arizona flipped blue.

    Seems to me that good candidates win despite "poor messaging" and poor candidates get swallowed up by it.

    Oh, and we legalized recreational marijuana.

    Stand up for what you believe in and people WILL follow you. Run away from what your opponent claims of you and people will just see you as weak. If the Democratic Party doesn't start to stand for something, there will be another Donald Trump.
    Another way to look at it is:

    Black Lives Matters is an important issue in America. Moderate democrats intentionally chose to not talk about the issue. Their opponents DID talk about the issue, and completely crushed the moderate democrats since, well they were the only ones doing any talking.

    And, oh yeah, police brutality has not been wiped out or anything like that. The issue is not going away.

  6. #35446

  7. #35447
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    This is precisely what Beto O'Rourke said was the way to turn Texas blue. Not just purple but blue.
    Yep, it's also what AOC and Doug Jones said now as well. Hopefully the Democratic Party actually listens.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    As much as I've spent time arguing this point, I don't really see the point in screaming into the void about it. It's what Republicans want. For people to waste all their efforts tone policing each other while nothing that matters actually gets done.

    You're falling into their trap. Talking about whether the slogan is bad or good rather than ending police brutality systemically across the USA means you're playing the Republican's game, by the Republican's rules.

    Wasting time trying to find the right, pretty slogan to put on pins and make Twitter hashtags for is a waste of everyone's damned time, while people are out there being brutalized and killed. There are bigger damned fish to fry.
    The fact alone that moderates think we need to get a better slogan/branding to market black people's lives just being able to exist and live peacefully without being murdered in this country should tell you all you need to know. Should we take it one step further for you and maybe you'd like black people to present their lives to you so you can bid on how much they're worth? Or maybe they'd like to be more subtle about their racism and only value black lives when they're entertaining them with music or sports. Does that sell their lives to them better? Is that better "branding"?

    People's lives should not have to be "sold" or "advertised" to you just for the fucking right to exist. Is America a free country or not?
    Last edited by Flower Milk; 2020-11-14 at 06:26 AM.

  8. #35448
    Elemental Lord Kathranis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    8,536
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I hope he stays involved with DNC politics in TX and helps make that happen. Flipping TX in 2024 would be fucking insane.
    I think 2024 is still a bit optimistic, especially if they run a more moderate Republican (assuming Trump doesn't/can't run again). Still we've seen it shift a few points every election and if they run on the right issues they could maybe do it.

    2028 seems a lot more likely possibility.

  9. #35449
    Brewmaster Slirith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Gamindustri
    Posts
    1,305
    Quote Originally Posted by fwc577 View Post
    MODS!!! Can you tell them to knock off the posts about Defund the Police. There is like 30 pages of posts about whether or not it was a good slogan and this isn’t the Defund the Police thread, it’s the election thread.
    Seriously, stfu about slogans ffs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ52sXi0ke4 What every new person to online games should watch

  10. #35450
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    30,068
    Our Ruling

    Eric Trump claimed on Twitter that a glitch uncovered in Rock County removes Biden’s lead in Wisconsin.

    But there was no glitch in the election system. And there’s no "gotcha" moment or evidence that will move votes over to President Trump’s column.

    The presidential totals were transposed for several minutes due to a data entry error by the Associated Press, without any involvement by election officials. The votes were counted following standard procedures by the Rock County Clerk’s Office and show Biden winning the county by a margin of more than 9,000 votes.

    We rate this claim Pants on Fire!
    Our Ruling

    Giuliani said over 600,000 votes were unlawful in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. There is no evidence to back that up.

    Pennsylvania law allows representatives from both parties to observe the count, and Republicans in the state told a judge that they did have monitors in the room.

    Pennsylvania’s Department of State denied that any votes were improperly counted.

    We rate this claim Pants on Fire.
    Our Ruling

    A poster on TikTok claiming, "The cheating is unreal," shared a video widely circulated on social media that appeared to show California ballots being collected the day after the election, after the state was called for Biden.

    In fact, it’s standard procedure in California to collect and process ballots from drop boxes after Election Day. A county official said the boxes were locked at 8 p.m. on election night. The video did not depict any cheating.

    PolitiFact rated that claim False last week.

    Trump shared the same debunked video this week, suggesting it was evidence of election fraud in California.

    We rated that claim False.
    Our Ruling

    Trump claimed that "Pennsylvania and Michigan didn’t allow our poll watchers and/or vote observers to watch or observe."

    That’s inaccurate. Republican election observers have been allowed to observe the canvassing of ballots in both Pennsylvania and Michigan, including in Philadelphia and Detroit, two of the cities heavily targeted by the Trump campaign’s litigation efforts. Even Trump campaign attorneys have acknowledged having observers present in court hearings and legal filings.

    We rate this claim Pants on Fire!
    Our Ruling

    Trump said in a tweet that a voting technology company deleted millions of votes that were cast for him during the presidential election.

    That claim is not based in fact.

    The president’s tweet traces back to an unsubstantiated claim on a pro-Trump website that cited Edison Research. But Edison Research told us they have found no evidence of voter fraud. Dominion, state election officials and federal officials say there’s no evidence that millions of votes were miscounted.

    Trump’s claim is inaccurate and ridiculous. We rate it Pants on Fire!
    Our Ruling

    Trump said, "If you count the legal votes, I easily win. If you count the illegal votes, they can try to steal the election from us."

    At the time of Trump’s comments the process of counting legal ballots continued in a handful of states with close races. Election experts say that local election officials are proceeding by following their state laws to count and verify ballots.

    There is no evidence that proper counting of legal votes automatically means Trump wins. And there is no evidence of widespread counting of illegal votes or any scheme by Democrats to steal the election.

    We rate this statement Pants on Fire!

  11. #35451
    Just had someone that was posting bullshit from Trump, saying that some republican pollster didn't get to observe 700k ballots, so that means that Trump wins, I think he got that lawsuit thrown out of court didn't he?

  12. #35452
    I feel like Twitter kinda needs to be doing more about stopping this misinformation. Just having a wee tag saying "this claim about the election is disputed" doesn't really give the same message as "this claim about the election is a complete lie" or even just outright blocking the tweet.

  13. #35453
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    30,068
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Just had someone that was posting bullshit from Trump, saying that some republican pollster didn't get to observe 700k ballots, so that means that Trump wins, I think he got that lawsuit thrown out of court didn't he?
    This is a complete list of lawsuits Trump has filed this election, updated 5PM New York Time.

    Trump has lost every single lawsuit, except for two.

    One, poll watchers got to stand six feet from the ballots. This is also being appealed. And it has no effect on the vote count.

    Two, a deadline for voters to show ID was retroactively moved from Nov 12 to Nov 9. It had nearly no effect on the vote count.

    What you're talking about sounds like the ongoing case in Pennsylvania that would stop the votes from being certified in several counties that, what a coincidence, just happened to vote Biden. Near as I can tell, that's your 700k number. It's also one of the cases Trump's lawyers just bailed on.

    Any expert who isn't Trump has basically said that lawsuit is destined to fail. Even if it doesn't, Biden won Georgia, Arizona and Nevada, and I'm fairly sure there are no lawsuits in any of those states (anymore). "XXX therefore Trump wins" sounds like fairy tale magic, which is why Trump tweeted it 7 hours ago. There is nothing in the law/Constitution that says votes are removed simply because they were not observed.

    The tweet was flagged immediately. Almost all of Trump's tweets are flagged immediately. Trump is doing nothing but lying, and strangely enough, taking credit for the most secure election in US history at the same time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Waniou View Post
    I feel like Twitter kinda needs to be doing more about stopping this misinformation.
    Jan 21st, perhaps.

    In any event, if anyone sees a tweet or FB post or whatever that simply says "there is fraud therefore Trump wins" the correct response is...to ignore the troll. But failing that, ask why the evidence to prove this fraud is on Hannity instead of submitted under oath in a court of law.

    There is currently no lawsuit at all that involves Trump's claims that Dominion rigged the election. Trump is just flat-out lying to the American people, but not stupid enough to do so under oath. He's free to provide evidence in court if the evidence exists. Until then, his tweets are not evidence.

    As multiple trustworthy sources are quick to point out, Trump's claim of 2.7 million Dominion deleted votes came from
    a) an anonymous poster
    b) who cited an Edison research project that Edison says does not exist
    c) was directly refuted by Trump's own DHS
    d) has not been entered into evidence in any court of law
    e) is not only not being followed up by Barr, but Barr's own DOJ is refusing to make such a move anyhow

    Nobody wants to report that Pennsylvania and Michigan didn’t allow our Poll Watchers and/or Vote Observers to Watch or Observe. This is responsible for hundreds of thousands of votes that should not be allowed to count. Therefore, I easily win both states. Report the News!
    This is where I usually offer one of my 24-hour challenges. I'm not even talking about the part where Trump's observers were in the room the whole time. I'm talking about the part where Trump just declares himself the victor. That's fairy tale magic. Ironic that we, here in a gaming site about swords and sorcery, have a firmer grasp of reality than the current squatter in the Oval Office.

  14. #35454
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Well, two of the reps are Democrat...in a lot of red. So there was some hope that maybe they'd vote in a dem senator.
    In this environment unless you are a candidate like a Joe Manchin state knows you better than whoever is on top of the ticket or you are gerrymandered blue I don't see those continuing in presidential election years. The country is simply too polarized, gerrymandered and hostile if Trump has proven anything it's that we may all be Americans but we live in different worlds.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xeones View Post
    I thought people were smoking when people were saying GA was going to go blue and that happened.
    That one didn't seem so far fetched given how little Stacy Abrahms lost by and how much shenanigans they had to do to pull it off.

  15. #35455
    Quote Originally Posted by Waniou View Post
    I feel like Twitter kinda needs to be doing more about stopping this misinformation. Just having a wee tag saying "this claim about the election is disputed" doesn't really give the same message as "this claim about the election is a complete lie" or even just outright blocking the tweet.
    I kinda feel that having that tag there is enough. Anyone that hasn't drank the Trump Kool-aid is going to see that tag and at least be "Well, maybe I should wait for some actual evidence before jumping aboard this train" and anyone that's already in the Trump cult is only going to be even more convinced of the plot against their dear leader by social media "censoring" him.

  16. #35456
    Don't know if anyone watched, but I saw this interview on Bill Maher last night (I moderately like his show and think he's been very right on the nose about Trump and both Dems)



    Beginning interview starts at 4:22 with Jenna, one of Trump's campaign lawyers. Holy fucking shit, the delusions this woman is putting forward is mind boggling.
    Just don't reply to me. Please. If you can help it.

  17. #35457
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    I kinda feel that having that tag there is enough. Anyone that hasn't drank the Trump Kool-aid is going to see that tag and at least be "Well, maybe I should wait for some actual evidence before jumping aboard this train" and anyone that's already in the Trump cult is only going to be even more convinced of the plot against their dear leader by social media "censoring" him.
    I both agree and disagree. At this point, I seriously doubt there are many people who aren't members of Trump's cult who would believe him if he tweeted that the sky was blue, without checking to see if it wasn't the middle of the night in DC.

    But at the same time, I don't think we should care whether or not they feel persecuted because Twitter flags his garbage. I say they just pull the plug now, and make the piece of shit hold a press conference if he wants to lie to the public, instead of letting him spread those lies with relative impunity on their website.

  18. #35458
    How will the senator races in Georgia play out if with Trump's cult?

    One idea is that they sort of humour Trump's idea of "voter fraud" so that he will help in Georgia, but it relies on Trump helping others which seems to be out of character - and he wasn't pulling ahead of the senators in the just completed election; and it's more than a month until that election.
    However, if they try to distance themselves from Trump it would likely lead to infighting that could lead to a loss.

  19. #35459
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    I think 2024 is still a bit optimistic, especially if they run a more moderate Republican (assuming Trump doesn't/can't run again). Still we've seen it shift a few points every election and if they run on the right issues they could maybe do it.

    2028 seems a lot more likely possibility.
    2024 will all be about who can become the next cult leader for the Republicans.
    If Republicans stays a death cult then we know what there upper limits are and then it's a question about turnout.
    If the Republicans are unable to find there next leader than the turnout will be normal, still high but within the regular margins.

  20. #35460
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    55,904
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    How will the senator races in Georgia play out if with Trump's cult?
    I have not seen his cult give a shit... it would mean risking admission that Trump isn’t winning.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    2024 will all be about who can become the next cult leader for the Republicans.
    I think it’s going to be a catastrophe driven fear mongering.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •