1. #37181
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post


    You're thinking of how the FBI can almost immediately get involved in any kidnapping case - because if it's even possible the kidnappers crossed state lines, they can become involved.

    For all crimes, if you cross state lines, you enter the possibility of federal charges, because it becomes a multistate matter, and becomes a federal felony.
    Interesting, so doesn't even look like intent matters in this particular case, unless he was like a paid assassin?

  2. #37182
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I don't think anyone is claiming that he crossed state lines with intent to commit murder. And the crime of murder with which he was charged was entirely in the state of Wisconsin. Just because he fled back to Illinois after the commission of the crime does not make the murder charge a federal one.

    EDIT: I mean, it would be very 2020 if his lawyers tried to claim that he did intend to commit murder and that it should be a federal charge, specifically because they got word that Trump would pardon him if that were the case.
    The moment they make that argument though, it blows up entirely for the purpose Trump would attempt to use it.

    That would be his lawyers confessing that he went all that way with the intent of killing people and throws out the whole "Self Defense" claim they are going for. Then his supporters are stuck admitting they are cheering a premeditated murderer.

    And while they would make that excuse for Trump directly, especially with the layers of separation between his will and his actions, not so much when it is a person going out and personally killing someone. His supporters will have a harder time trying to play the mental gymnastics to reconcile that one.

    1) He crossed with the intent of killing.
    2) That means his actions there were not self defense.
    3) That means Trump pardoned him on premeditated murder.
    4) But Trump said they were just defending themselves.
    5) But his defense even confessed he went with the intention of killing them.
    6) Mental Divide by Zero. Error.....
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  3. #37183
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    The moment they make that argument though, it blows up entirely for the purpose Trump would attempt to use it.

    That would be his lawyers confessing that he went all that way with the intent of killing people and throws out the whole "Self Defense" claim they are going for. Then his supporters are stuck admitting they are cheering a premeditated murderer.

    And while they would make that excuse for Trump directly, especially with the layers of separation between his will and his actions, not so much when it is a person going out and personally killing someone. His supporters will have a harder time trying to play the mental gymnastics to reconcile that one.

    1) He crossed with the intent of killing.
    2) That means his actions there were not self defense.
    3) That means Trump pardoned him on premeditated murder.
    4) But Trump said they were just defending themselves.
    5) But his defense even confessed he went with the intention of killing them.
    6) Mental Divide by Zero. Error.....
    Clearly, the radical leftists in different state made him fear for his life, so in order to protect himself he had to cross state lines and preemptively strike at them to protect them from eventually killing him. /s


    actually, I type /s, but really I do think some of the more hardcore right-wing sycophants think like that. I mean, the GOP has gotten people in rural Ohio to be scared of illegal immigrants raping them with drugs, despite the Mexican-US border being 1,600 miles away.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  4. #37184
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I don't think anyone is claiming that he crossed state lines with intent to commit murder. And the crime of murder with which he was charged was entirely in the state of Wisconsin. Just because he fled back to Illinois after the commission of the crime does not make the murder charge a federal one.

    EDIT: I mean, it would be very 2020 if his lawyers tried to claim that he did intend to commit murder and that it should be a federal charge, specifically because they got word that Trump would pardon him if that were the case.
    I mean it's not totally out of the question isn't it, but with a different wording.
    "My client went to the protest with the intend of protecting the property of fellow Americans".

    You kind of admit that his finger was already on the trigger before anything happend.

    If Zimmerman can go pick a fight then proceed to lose that fight (by his own admission) and finally be justified in murdering his victim can get away with murder then anybody can and you can use any sick argument to justify that murder.

  5. #37185
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    So the Trump campaign is still sending out emails even as of today, urging people to donate so team Trump can continue to dispute the vote. Of course this comes after Trump has already agreed to the transition of power and is making plans to retire at Mar A Lago. Grifters to the end.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  6. #37186
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    If the respective AG's in both states along with the federal prosecutor work together (and their offices usually do when there are competing federal and state charges for the same series of events) they could work out a set of charges that are all state based, and choose to only indict on the state charges, letting the federal charges linger without moving forward with prosecution.

    That could avoid the Trumpdon (Trump + Pardon?).
    Couldn't they just wait until Jan 21st to nail him with everything? It would still be an expedient trial.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Yes he can. He faces a lot of federal charges.

    Yes, Trump cannot pardon state charges, but he can pardon federal charges just to throw a big show of support for his fellow murdering racists.
    So Trump officially supports and endorses domestic terrorism.

  7. #37187
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dextersmith View Post
    Can they take properties he owns in other countries?
    Other countries are in the process of doing their own, um, investigation so I wouldn't worry too much about those.

    He'd just transfer ownership to family members anyway.
    That's not how that works. If the government says "we're seizing these assets" you can't just reply "lol no I'm transferring it to my kid right before you do".

  8. #37188
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Clearly, the radical leftists in different state made him fear for his life, so in order to protect himself he had to cross state lines and preemptively strike at them to protect them from eventually killing him. /s


    actually, I type /s, but really I do think some of the more hardcore right-wing sycophants think like that. I mean, the GOP has gotten people in rural Ohio to be scared of illegal immigrants raping them with drugs, despite the Mexican-US border being 1,600 miles away.
    Right-wingers in Eastern Europe got there own people scared from Muslims that
    A) Don't live in there countries
    B) Have no intention of ever living in said country
    C) Don't want to even come close that country

    I once read that allot of Polish people who worked in Holland and Germany came back radicalized instead of becoming more liberal (which was the goal). Living in Germany and Holland the amount of "brown" people (which Eastern Europe doesn't have) shocked them into electing there current leaders. Now you have leaders in Eastern Europe fighting the good fight against Islam, I mean sure you can count on one hand how many Muslims live in entire Eastern Europe but that's just details.

    So yea, it can always get worse. At least with the US those "illegal immigrats" are still in the US and not in a completely different country like with the European right-wing.

  9. #37189
    Immortal PresidentGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    I once read that allot of Polish people who worked in Holland and Germany came back radicalized instead of becoming more liberal (which was the goal). Living in Germany and Holland the amount of "brown" people (which Eastern Europe doesn't have) shocked them into electing there current leaders. Now you have leaders in Eastern Europe fighting the good fight against Islam, I mean sure you can count on one hand how many Muslims live in entire Eastern Europe but that's just details.
    A similar effect happens in the US. When kids from 'rural' or exurban areas move to US cities. The amount of diversity in the city shocks them to their core.

    I spent a few years teaching college in the Bay Area. A few students stood out. Because they would only stay on campus for like 4 days a week. Then go back to their parent's McMansion in Folsom Lake every weekend.
    Same kids complained a lot about *those people*.
    Welcome to GEN-OT, have a seat, we'll introduce you to the 23-year-old who will lecture you about how Democrats didn't try hard enough to improve the ACA, and once that's all set up you'll be assigned a socialist who supported Ron Paul up to 2015 to harass you forever.
    "Once bigotry or self-loathing permeate a given community, it is only a matter of time before deep metaphysical significance is assigned to the shape of human skulls."
    -Lady Foppington

  10. #37190
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dextersmith View Post
    So Trump officially supports and endorses domestic terrorism.
    You can't possibly be surprised.

  11. #37191

  12. #37192
    Immortal PresidentGreymane's Avatar
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    Kraken on a Friday

    This is a song that writes itself!

    If anyone from BLACKPINK wants to do a collab, call me.
    Welcome to GEN-OT, have a seat, we'll introduce you to the 23-year-old who will lecture you about how Democrats didn't try hard enough to improve the ACA, and once that's all set up you'll be assigned a socialist who supported Ron Paul up to 2015 to harass you forever.
    "Once bigotry or self-loathing permeate a given community, it is only a matter of time before deep metaphysical significance is assigned to the shape of human skulls."
    -Lady Foppington

  13. #37193
    Quote Originally Posted by PresidentElectMilchschake View Post
    Kraken on a Friday
    Kraken is a pretty great rum, so Kraken often happens on a Friday

    If anyone from BLACKPINK wants to do a collab, call me.
    They don't even have to be in your area!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Resurgo View Post
    I am quivering in anticipation.
    When you fully support violence in the streets because you're too comfy sat at home in another country behind your PC screen to actually do anything about things you claim to be against
    Quote Originally Posted by Pro-Violence/Arch-Angel of Riots/rmfAcc/Rochana View Post
    I admit I'm an absolute lunatic who is in favor of chaos, because I don't like what is currently going on - despite being in a privileged and elated position in this supposed state of "normalcy".

  14. #37194
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resurgo View Post
    Today’s the day folks!!
    Why don't we know who they are?
    -- Dobbs

    Show us Trump's taxes
    -- Breccia

    Anyone else think that's fair? I think "the people have the right to know" either applies to the business dealings and possible leverage foreign countries have over a political candidate, or, it doesn't apply to anything at all. If Trump is not willing to show that he can be compromised -- or just as important, not willing to show he can't be -- then claiming foreign influence is bad, is no longer important.

    Both or neither. Who wants to disagree? Trump supporters of course are not just allowed but encouraged to participate.

  15. #37195
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    -- Dobbs


    -- Breccia

    Anyone else think that's fair? I think "the people have the right to know" either applies to the business dealings and possible leverage foreign countries have over a political candidate, or, it doesn't apply to anything at all. If Trump is not willing to show that he can be compromised -- or just as important, not willing to show he can't be -- then claiming foreign influence is bad, is no longer important.

    Both or neither. Who wants to disagree? Trump supporters of course are not just allowed but encouraged to participate.
    What would it do to expose leverage foreign countries have over Trump, besides give closure? People knew and still gave him power and nuclear codes. The damage is done and he's on his way out.

  16. #37196
    Quote Originally Posted by Resurgo View Post
    So the claim is that in GA, counting machines manipulated the vote to inflate Biden's numbers? You're filing this lawsuit in the state where a HAND recount of every literally ballot has just completed and confirmed Biden won... That's the state you're going to file this particular lawsuit? You sure about that?

  17. #37197
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dextersmith View Post
    What would it do to expose leverage foreign countries have over Trump, besides give closure?
    This is about hypocrisy.

    If Dobbs/Powell are that concerned about foreign influence, they should be asking to see Trump's taxes.

    They aren't.

    Therefore, they're not concerned about foreign influence. They are being hypocrites.

    P.S. All the other reasons to see Trump's taxes, including of course felony fraud.

  18. #37198
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eviscero View Post
    So the claim is that in GA, counting machines manipulated the vote to inflate Biden's numbers? You're filing this lawsuit in the state where a HAND recount of every literally ballot has just completed and confirmed Biden won... That's the state you're going to file this particular lawsuit? You sure about that?
    No one has ever accused Mrs."Smoot Brained Kraken" to be particularly bright.

  19. #37199
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Can Trump's lawyers be disciplined for making false claims?

    All 50 states and the District of Columbia have legal ethics rules for lawyers that are derived from standards published by the American Bar Association.

    One ABA rule says that lawyers should only assert a claim in court if “there is a basis in law and fact for doing so that is not frivolous.”

    Separately, there are rules prohibiting lawyers from making false statements to third parties and engaging in deceitful conduct.

    Judges can punish lawyers who violate ethics rules in a particular case by ordering them to pay the winning party’s legal fees.

    Judges can also impose milder sanctions such as striking a misleading document from the court record.

    These case-specific punishments are sometimes known as “Rule 11 sanctions” in federal court.

    Ethics rules are also enforced by regulatory bodies, typically “grievance committees” run by state judiciaries.

    These bodies can suspend a lawyer or revoke his or her license.
    And...

    Rules governing attorney conduct apply both inside and out of the courtroom.

    “Lawyers definitely have a lot more leeway in press conferences, but they still cannot engage in deceit in their statements,” said Keith Swisher, an ethics law professor at the University of Arizona.

    On Twitter and in media appearances, Giuliani and attorney Sidney Powell appeared to have run afoul of rules barring them from making dishonest statements, said Brian Faughnan, a lawyer and ethics specialist in Tennessee.

    The Trump campaign has since said that Powell is no longer representing it.

    Faughnan said Giuliani acted unethically by tweeting on Nov. 22 that there were “PHANTOM VOTERS” in the Detroit area.

    That tweet appeared to reference a sworn statement by a cybersecurity analyst, submitted in court, that had a major error: it confused data from Minnesota with data from Michigan.

    Two days previously, the lawyer who filed the affidavit, Lin Wood, conceded that it was mistaken and needed to be corrected.

    Giuliani either knew his tweet was false, or reasonably should have known it was false, Faughnan said.
    However.

    Despite these apparent ethical lapses, Faughnan said he did not expect state grievance committees to take action against Giuliani and Powell.

    Faughnan said investigators have limited resources, and will focus on more straightforward violations such as lawyers who steal from clients.

    Faughnan said investigators would also be wary of disciplining lawyers when its about politics.

    “When it is a very politically charged case, you know the first line of defense is going to be ‘you are only doing this to us because of our politics,’” said Faughnan.

    Sanctions imposed by judges are more possible, Faughnan said, but still unlikely. Sanctions are typically requested by opposing counsel, who may decide the fight is not worth the time and energy, he said.

    “Is a court going to take it upon itself to issue any sort of sanction in these circumstances? They might but it seems unlikely,” he said.
    I'm not sure ifl this is "Lawful Evil" and "purl=http://easydamus.com/neutralevil.html]Neutral Evil[/url]". I don't know if Trump's legal team is carefully trying to stay within the guidelines of ethics, or if they're breaking the rules because they don't care if they get caught. However, intentionally pushing forward a series of objectively false claims, when you're not supposed to, to further the cause of taking something you don't deserve (an election you lost) is unquestionably evil.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Trump was supposed to go to Pennsylvania to discuss election fraud with like-minded GOPers.

    He just canceled.

    Possible reasons include:

    1) Boris Epshteyn, a campaign advisor who hung out with Giuliani a lot without wearing a mask, tested positive, and people are worried about yet another super spreader event Trump personally causes.

    2) Pennsylvania certified.

    3) Every single court case of merit failed and sitting around saying "You know what would have helped? Some evidence!" gets old after about fifteen minutes.

    4) Trump is afraid to leave the White House bunker.

    5) Young Bannon wants to play Shadowlands and hotel WiFi sucks balls

    6) He was never going to go anyhow, he just wanted to see which PA lawmakers signed up so he could Tweet about the others

    7) The witnesses Giuliani said would be there, witnesses who have signed affidavits about election fraud but for some reason never entered a courtroom, flaked out.

    8) Okay I'll be honest here, I looked through 12 different national and local websites to find the name of the hotel to make a "Four Seasons landscaping" kind of joke but I could not find the hotel. Maybe you can, but at this point, the fact that the hotel isn't bragging about this is a joke in and of itself.

    9) It's forecast to rain later in Gettysburg so golfing it out.

    and of course

    10) The whole thing has been a smokescreen, Fake News to give the public appearance of "fighting for YOU THE VOTER give me your money". When people stopped donating to objective loser Donald Trump, he threw a tantrum and decided not to go see the people fighting overtime for what little election chance he still has, in the ultimate "fuck you" to not just the rabid fanbase but the most rabid of the rabid fanbase, because Trump only cares about Trump.

  20. #37200
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dextersmith View Post
    Couldn't they just wait until Jan 21st to nail him with everything? It would still be an expedient trial.
    They definitely could do that - and more than likely will. I'm just not sure about the NY AG's office - they have been chomping at the bit to get at the Trump Organization for over a year.

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