Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Kaleredar]

Why not? Obama got one, albeit briefly. Trump is a historically unpopular President and if the establishment Democrats are to be believed, Biden being a wishy washy moderate should've won over a lot of swing states...

Well I mean, it did. He won the presidency. Took back the states Clinton should have won and swung some long-time GOP ones.

If you want to blame the individual senators for not taking the senate, then you can blame their respective platforms.

[PhaelixWW]

Being created on a stupid principle doesn't make it a sane or good thing.

The principal is neither stupid, nor insane, nor even necessarily bad.

[Kellhound]

Being created on a stupid principle doesn't make it a sane or good thing.

The principle it is based on is sound.

[Blur4stuff]

The Senate was explicitly created to not represent overall votes, that is the realm of the House.

The house doesn't either because of the cap and gerrymandering. It's favored to republicans by default. If it were fair then dems would have another dozen seats advantage.

Yes, the senate isn't supposed to match the population exactly. However, It's extremely out of whack. It's not just republicans getting a few extra seats. They've had a 7-10 seat advantage because of it. I can't image the founders intended for it to be that lopsided.

[Machismo]

The principle it is based on is sound.

The principle that land should vote?

Nah.

[PhaelixWW]

The principle that land should vote?

Nah.

A chamber in which states have equal voices?

Sure.

That's why there are two chambers that are supposed to be balanced: one for the states' representatives, one for the people's representatives.

Gerrymandering is a huge problem, of course, but the main problem is that somewhat near half the population are just benighted imbeciles; the fact that they've accumulated enough in the states with lower populations to win over as many Senate seats as they have is a travesty, but doesn't represent any inherent problem with the principle itself.

[cubby]

The principle that land should vote?

Nah.

A chamber in which states have equal voices?

Sure.

That's why there are two chambers that are supposed to be balanced: one for the states' representatives, one for the people's representatives.

Gerrymandering is a huge problem, of course, but the main problem is that somewhat near half the population are just benighted imbeciles; the fact that they've accumulated enough in the states with lower populations to win over as many Senate seats as they have is a travesty, but doesn't represent any inherent problem with the principle itself.

And Gerrymandering only really affects House seats, not the Senate.

If I may, @Machismo, I believe you're thinking of the Electoral College, which is, essentially, land voting instead of people. It should have been eliminated 100 years ago, when people started moving into cities.

[PhaelixWW]

And Gerrymandering only really affects House seats, not the Senate.

Sorry, yes, I meant to clarify that the House would absolutely be a check to the Senate if gerrymandering wasn't a thing. Having one chamber for states' reps and another for people's reps is fine even if the two are not in agreement, but the system breaks if the House no longer accurately represents the people's interests proportionately.

That being said, neither would be that much of a problem were it not for the widespread idiocy that seems to have gripped nearly half the population.

If I may, @Machismo, I believe you're thinking of the Electoral College, which is, essentially, land voting instead of people. It should have been eliminated 100 years ago, when people started moving into cities.

I've mentioned this before, but the concept of one chamber elected as states' reps and another for people's reps with the combination electing the president, is also not an inherently flawed one. But as there's much less check on the President, and as there is now such a disparity between state populations, it makes more sense to move towards an election based off the population, rather than a combination.

[Corvus]

Australia has a similar set up to the US, with a lower house that represents the people and an upper house, the senate, which represents the states (and which one former prime minister famously called unrepresentative swill.)

The difference is that Australia's voting system results in quite a few minor parties and independents in the senate who end up holding the balance of power meaning the government has to negotiate to get bills passed. Often that results in the government 'buying' votes from senators by funding projects in the senator's state.

[Kellhound]

The house doesn't either because of the cap and gerrymandering. It's favored to republicans by default. If it were fair then dems would have another dozen seats advantage.

Yes, the senate isn't supposed to match the population exactly. However, It's extremely out of whack. It's not just republicans getting a few extra seats. They've had a 7-10 seat advantage because of it. I can't image the founders intended for it to be that lopsided.

The House does as it was intended, as does the Senate. What the founders didn't intend for was a polarized two party system.

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The principle that land should vote?

Nah.

The principle that the voice of the states is important for balance?

Yeah.

[Masark]

What the founders didn't intend for was a polarized two party system.

They may not have intended it when they wrote the thing, but they definitely intended it when they created it while they were still in office.

[october breeze]

Dude, you should see how good Trump can remember the words "Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV." You will be blown away. Maybe the best there's ever been.

Believe me, the whole world was watching aghast, how on earth someone like a guy with speaking skills of a 5 years old can make his way into the oval office!
Either system is broken, or voters are dumb! Later is always true for most countries in the world, so fix the system non the less!

[Veggie50]

The House does as it was intended, as does the Senate. What the founders didn't intend for was a polarized two party system.

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The principle that the voice of the states is important for balance?

Yeah.

Perhaps, Trumps soul positive contribution to the USA will be the fact he may have killed the 2 party system.

There’s a real possibility Trump will run as an independent candidate, stealing lots of republican voters. If he does this, the GOP is effectively finished, handing easy victory to the democrats.

But it doesn’t end there. The Democratic Party only exists because of the GOP, as an outside pressure keeps us together kind of thing. Without the absolute need to be one united party, I can easily see them breaking off into factions aswell.

Lots of “may” and “perhaps” inthere. But it could do a lot of good...

[PhaelixWW]

So this Parler fiasco may actually be a bit weirder than I, at least, realized.

Most of us knew that the app has been removed from the Google and Apple app stores. Many of us also knew that Amazon had dumped their use of AWS, effectively pulling the plug on Parler until they can find a new hosting service. Some of us had even heard about Twilio cutting ties with Parler, leading to a lack of email verification on Parler's part.

But if the details in this tweet are to be believed (and take this with a huge grain of salt for now), the ramifications were much, much more than that.






Now, I don't condone the hacking of personal information from a social media service, but... I'm also not going to shed a tear if various law enforcement agencies have received credible, substantial, and actionable evidence from anonymous sources relating to the activities of people who are in the habit of inciting violence against others.

[jonnysensible]

So this Parler fiasco may actually be a bit weirder than I, at least, realized.

Most of us knew that the app has been removed from the Google and Apple app stores. Many of us also knew that Amazon had dumped their use of AWS, effectively pulling the plug on Parler until they can find a new hosting service. Some of us had even heard about Twilio cutting ties with Parler, leading to a lack of email verification on Parler's part.

But if the details in this tweet are to be believed (and take this with a huge grain of salt for now), the ramifications were much, much more than that.






Now, I don't condone the hacking of personal information from a social media service, but... I'm also not going to shed a tear if various law enforcement agencies have received credible, substantial, and actionable evidence from anonymous sources relating to the activities of people who are in the habit of inciting violence against others.

hopefully they will do the same thing hackers did with iron march and stick it in a searchable database with the dms too.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Or you could stop platforming people who call for violence.

The same thing these types did to the U.S capitol they have been doing to MMO C. With language.

[Machismo]

And Gerrymandering only really affects House seats, not the Senate.

If I may, @Machismo, I believe you're thinking of the Electoral College, which is, essentially, land voting instead of people. It should have been eliminated 100 years ago, when people started moving into cities.

Yes, I am referring to the EC. But, in essence, that discrepancy actually falls on the two Senate seats in each state. Without them, the distribution o votes within the EC would be much more equal. Wyoming would lose 2/3 of it's voting power.

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A chamber in which states have equal voices?

Sure.

That's why there are two chambers that are supposed to be balanced: one for the states' representatives, one for the people's representatives.

Gerrymandering is a huge problem, of course, but the main problem is that somewhat near half the population are just benighted imbeciles; the fact that they've accumulated enough in the states with lower populations to win over as many Senate seats as they have is a travesty, but doesn't represent any inherent problem with the principle itself.

I have never believed that land should vote.

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The House does as it was intended, as does the Senate. What the founders didn't intend for was a polarized two party system.

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The principle that the voice of the states is important for balance?

Yeah.

You mean... land.

Nah, I'm cool with that. But, considering how long you've supported the ideals of racism, you and I are not likely to agree on much.

[PhaelixWW]

I have never believed that land should vote.

No, sorry, that's a crass oversimplification. We're not talking about counties voting here. States as separate voting entities is at the heart of the United States, hence the name.

Do member nations of the UN vote by weight according to their population? Does China get 21x the vote of the UK in the UN? Do you consider their land voting instead, then?

Nobody (well, nobody outside desperate Republicans) is suggesting that "land voting" is a desired thing. But having one chamber of Congress there to represent the states equally is not the same thing at all. The Senate is (supposed to be) balanced by the House of Representatives.

[gondrin]

So this Parler fiasco may actually be a bit weirder than I, at least, realized.

Most of us knew that the app has been removed from the Google and Apple app stores. Many of us also knew that Amazon had dumped their use of AWS, effectively pulling the plug on Parler until they can find a new hosting service. Some of us had even heard about Twilio cutting ties with Parler, leading to a lack of email verification on Parler's part.

But if the details in this tweet are to be believed (and take this with a huge grain of salt for now), the ramifications were much, much more than that.






Now, I don't condone the hacking of personal information from a social media service, but... I'm also not going to shed a tear if various law enforcement agencies have received credible, substantial, and actionable evidence from anonymous sources relating to the activities of people who are in the habit of inciting violence against others.

Well, according to this twitter thread, this guy is backing up all of the Parlor posts during the riots. Large amount of data. https://twitter.com/donk_enby/status...96132798533632

You know, I would feel sorry for them then I remember the video of the cop getting beaten to death with the American flag and I stop feeling that way.

[Machismo]

No, sorry, that's a crass oversimplification. We're not talking about counties voting here. States as separate voting entities is at the heart of the United States, hence the name.

Do member nations of the UN vote by weight according to their population? Does China get 21x the vote of the UK in the UN? Do you consider their land voting instead, then?

Nobody (well, nobody outside desperate Republicans) is suggesting that "land voting" is a desired thing. But having one chamber of Congress there to represent the states equally is not the same thing at all. The Senate is (supposed to be) balanced by the House of Representatives.

It's still the belief that land should vote. You can justify it all you like, but that's what it is in the end.

The real tragedy is when they then seek to use that same mentality to elect the leader of the nation.