1. #40661
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    That was NEVER going to happen, though.
    Why not? Obama got one, albeit briefly. Trump is a historically unpopular President and if the establishment Democrats are to be believed, Biden being a wishy washy moderate should've won over a lot of swing states...
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    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
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    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  2. #40662
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    If senate representation was balanced according to actual votes the dems would have held a majority for decades now. A lot more than two years of that would have been 60+ seats.
    The Senate was explicitly created to not represent overall votes, that is the realm of the House.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  3. #40663
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    The Senate was explicitly created to not represent overall votes, that is the realm of the House.
    Being created on a stupid principle doesn't make it a sane or good thing.
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    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  4. #40664
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Why not? Obama got one, albeit briefly. Trump is a historically unpopular President and if the establishment Democrats are to be believed, Biden being a wishy washy moderate should've won over a lot of swing states...
    Well I mean, it did. He won the presidency. Took back the states Clinton should have won and swung some long-time GOP ones.

    If you want to blame the individual senators for not taking the senate, then you can blame their respective platforms.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  5. #40665
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Being created on a stupid principle doesn't make it a sane or good thing.
    The principal is neither stupid, nor insane, nor even necessarily bad.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  6. #40666
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Being created on a stupid principle doesn't make it a sane or good thing.
    The principle it is based on is sound.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  7. #40667
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    The Senate was explicitly created to not represent overall votes, that is the realm of the House.
    The house doesn't either because of the cap and gerrymandering. It's favored to republicans by default. If it were fair then dems would have another dozen seats advantage.

    Yes, the senate isn't supposed to match the population exactly. However, It's extremely out of whack. It's not just republicans getting a few extra seats. They've had a 7-10 seat advantage because of it. I can't image the founders intended for it to be that lopsided.

  8. #40668
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    The principle it is based on is sound.
    The principle that land should vote?

    Nah.

  9. #40669
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    The principle that land should vote?

    Nah.
    A chamber in which states have equal voices?

    Sure.

    That's why there are two chambers that are supposed to be balanced: one for the states' representatives, one for the people's representatives.

    Gerrymandering is a huge problem, of course, but the main problem is that somewhat near half the population are just benighted imbeciles; the fact that they've accumulated enough in the states with lower populations to win over as many Senate seats as they have is a travesty, but doesn't represent any inherent problem with the principle itself.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  10. #40670
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    The principle that land should vote?

    Nah.
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    A chamber in which states have equal voices?

    Sure.

    That's why there are two chambers that are supposed to be balanced: one for the states' representatives, one for the people's representatives.

    Gerrymandering is a huge problem, of course, but the main problem is that somewhat near half the population are just benighted imbeciles; the fact that they've accumulated enough in the states with lower populations to win over as many Senate seats as they have is a travesty, but doesn't represent any inherent problem with the principle itself.
    And Gerrymandering only really affects House seats, not the Senate.

    If I may, @Machismo, I believe you're thinking of the Electoral College, which is, essentially, land voting instead of people. It should have been eliminated 100 years ago, when people started moving into cities.

  11. #40671
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    And Gerrymandering only really affects House seats, not the Senate.
    Sorry, yes, I meant to clarify that the House would absolutely be a check to the Senate if gerrymandering wasn't a thing. Having one chamber for states' reps and another for people's reps is fine even if the two are not in agreement, but the system breaks if the House no longer accurately represents the people's interests proportionately.

    That being said, neither would be that much of a problem were it not for the widespread idiocy that seems to have gripped nearly half the population.


    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    If I may, @Machismo, I believe you're thinking of the Electoral College, which is, essentially, land voting instead of people. It should have been eliminated 100 years ago, when people started moving into cities.
    I've mentioned this before, but the concept of one chamber elected as states' reps and another for people's reps with the combination electing the president, is also not an inherently flawed one. But as there's much less check on the President, and as there is now such a disparity between state populations, it makes more sense to move towards an election based off the population, rather than a combination.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  12. #40672
    Australia has a similar set up to the US, with a lower house that represents the people and an upper house, the senate, which represents the states (and which one former prime minister famously called unrepresentative swill.)

    The difference is that Australia's voting system results in quite a few minor parties and independents in the senate who end up holding the balance of power meaning the government has to negotiate to get bills passed. Often that results in the government 'buying' votes from senators by funding projects in the senator's state.

  13. #40673
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    The house doesn't either because of the cap and gerrymandering. It's favored to republicans by default. If it were fair then dems would have another dozen seats advantage.

    Yes, the senate isn't supposed to match the population exactly. However, It's extremely out of whack. It's not just republicans getting a few extra seats. They've had a 7-10 seat advantage because of it. I can't image the founders intended for it to be that lopsided.
    The House does as it was intended, as does the Senate. What the founders didn't intend for was a polarized two party system.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    The principle that land should vote?

    Nah.
    The principle that the voice of the states is important for balance?

    Yeah.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  14. #40674
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    What the founders didn't intend for was a polarized two party system.
    They may not have intended it when they wrote the thing, but they definitely intended it when they created it while they were still in office.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Tayler
    Political conservatism is just atavism with extra syllables and a necktie.
    Me on Elite : Dangerous | My WoW characters

  15. #40675
    The Patient october breeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Dude, you should see how good Trump can remember the words "Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV." You will be blown away. Maybe the best there's ever been.
    Believe me, the whole world was watching aghast, how on earth someone like a guy with speaking skills of a 5 years old can make his way into the oval office!
    Either system is broken, or voters are dumb! Later is always true for most countries in the world, so fix the system non the less!

  16. #40676
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    The House does as it was intended, as does the Senate. What the founders didn't intend for was a polarized two party system.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The principle that the voice of the states is important for balance?

    Yeah.
    Perhaps, Trumps soul positive contribution to the USA will be the fact he may have killed the 2 party system.

    There’s a real possibility Trump will run as an independent candidate, stealing lots of republican voters. If he does this, the GOP is effectively finished, handing easy victory to the democrats.

    But it doesn’t end there. The Democratic Party only exists because of the GOP, as an outside pressure keeps us together kind of thing. Without the absolute need to be one united party, I can easily see them breaking off into factions aswell.

    Lots of “may” and “perhaps” inthere. But it could do a lot of good...

  17. #40677
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    So this Parler fiasco may actually be a bit weirder than I, at least, realized.

    Most of us knew that the app has been removed from the Google and Apple app stores. Many of us also knew that Amazon had dumped their use of AWS, effectively pulling the plug on Parler until they can find a new hosting service. Some of us had even heard about Twilio cutting ties with Parler, leading to a lack of email verification on Parler's part.

    But if the details in this tweet are to be believed (and take this with a huge grain of salt for now), the ramifications were much, much more than that.






    Now, I don't condone the hacking of personal information from a social media service, but... I'm also not going to shed a tear if various law enforcement agencies have received credible, substantial, and actionable evidence from anonymous sources relating to the activities of people who are in the habit of inciting violence against others.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  18. #40678
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    So this Parler fiasco may actually be a bit weirder than I, at least, realized.

    Most of us knew that the app has been removed from the Google and Apple app stores. Many of us also knew that Amazon had dumped their use of AWS, effectively pulling the plug on Parler until they can find a new hosting service. Some of us had even heard about Twilio cutting ties with Parler, leading to a lack of email verification on Parler's part.

    But if the details in this tweet are to be believed (and take this with a huge grain of salt for now), the ramifications were much, much more than that.






    Now, I don't condone the hacking of personal information from a social media service, but... I'm also not going to shed a tear if various law enforcement agencies have received credible, substantial, and actionable evidence from anonymous sources relating to the activities of people who are in the habit of inciting violence against others.
    hopefully they will do the same thing hackers did with iron march and stick it in a searchable database with the dms too.

  19. #40679
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    Or you could stop platforming people who call for violence.
    The same thing these types did to the U.S capitol they have been doing to MMO C. With language.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  20. #40680
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    So this Parler fiasco may actually be a bit weirder than I, at least, realized.

    Most of us knew that the app has been removed from the Google and Apple app stores. Many of us also knew that Amazon had dumped their use of AWS, effectively pulling the plug on Parler until they can find a new hosting service. Some of us had even heard about Twilio cutting ties with Parler, leading to a lack of email verification on Parler's part.

    But if the details in this tweet are to be believed (and take this with a huge grain of salt for now), the ramifications were much, much more than that.






    Now, I don't condone the hacking of personal information from a social media service, but... I'm also not going to shed a tear if various law enforcement agencies have received credible, substantial, and actionable evidence from anonymous sources relating to the activities of people who are in the habit of inciting violence against others.
    Hahahaha. This is amazing. Sketchy as fuck, but amazing.

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