1. #40901
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Pardons can't apply to future crimes.
    Do I remember someone mentioning that they can only work on crimes that are currently being charged in court?

  2. #40902
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    Do I remember someone mentioning that they can only work on crimes that are currently being charged in court?
    I think you can pardon any crime that has already happened, and that would include charges that are in process. Certainly, pardons are normally reserved for crimes that have already been adjudicated, so there's no point at which it's too late for a pardon.


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  3. #40903
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I think you can pardon any crime that has already happened, and that would include charges that are in process. Certainly, pardons are normally reserved for crimes that have already been adjudicated, so there's no point at which it's too late for a pardon.
    My bad on my wording for the tense. But specifically, charges have to be involved and it can't just be "lol, you're good from all the crimes, even ones that they haven't caught that you did yet!"

  4. #40904
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Pardons can't apply to future crimes.
    I see, I didn't realize there was an explicit temporal restriction. Was misled by the idea of a preemptive pardon; that it refers to crimes already committed but not yet charged.

  5. #40905
    Quote Originally Posted by Eviscero View Post
    Is Trump allowed to just issue a blanket pardon for all 71M people who voted for him for all past and potential future crimes? Seems like the way some people talk about the pardon power Trump could create an army of 007s... with a lot less swagger.
    Past crimes sure, i mean he can pardon anyone for anything.

    Imagine the list of people committed of crimes against children/spouses that would be printed on 600 pages of the NY times the following week.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  6. #40906
    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    My bad on my wording for the tense. But specifically, charges have to be involved and it can't just be "lol, you're good from all the crimes, even ones that they haven't caught that you did yet!"
    No, I think that it could, at least it's not so clear that charges have to be involved. But, thankfully, it does have to involve a crime that already took place:

    The Supreme Court said as far back as 1866 that the pardon power applies “to every offense known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment."

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...-been-n1249707

  7. #40907
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eviscero View Post
    I see, I didn't realize there was an explicit temporal restriction. Was misled by the idea of a preemptive pardon; that it refers to crimes already committed but not yet charged.
    Quite probably, though it's never been tested.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

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  8. #40908
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I think you can pardon any crime that has already happened, and that would include charges that are in process. Certainly, pardons are normally reserved for crimes that have already been adjudicated, so there's no point at which it's too late for a pardon.
    It's never been tested in the court. Ford pardoned Nixon without any charges being levied.

    - - - Updated - - -

    MULTIPLE NEWS SOURCES ARE REPORTING THAT MCCONNEL SUPPORTS IMPEACHMENT EFFORTS AGAINST TRUMP.

    Holy. fucking. shit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eviscero View Post
    No, I think that it could, at least it's not so clear that charges have to be involved. But, thankfully, it does have to involve a crime that already took place:

    The Supreme Court said as far back as 1866 that the pardon power applies “to every offense known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment."

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...-been-n1249707
    The statement is true, but again, it's never been actually tested in a court of law.
    Last edited by cubby; 2021-01-12 at 11:07 PM.

  9. #40909
    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/12/p...iot/index.html

    Bye bye "President" Trump. You will be just plain douchebag lunatic racist Trump on history books.

  10. #40910
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  11. #40911
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Yes. Yes I do.

    Thanks.

  12. #40912
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    he might support it but he will do everything possible to delay it till it doesn't really matter anymore.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  13. #40913
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    he might support it but he will do everything possible to delay it till it doesn't really matter anymore.
    He can't now - he isn't the Majority Leader now. And if the GOP has any rational thoughts about the future, impeaching Trump is their best option. Bar him from future office and his entire power base is pulled out from under him.

  14. #40914
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    he might support it but he will do everything possible to delay it till it doesn't really matter anymore.
    Can it be voted by the Democratic-controlled Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    He can't now - he isn't the Majority Leader now. And if the GOP has any rational thoughts about the future, impeaching Trump is their best option. Bar him from future office and his entire power base is pulled out from under him.
    Thank you, you just answered my question.

  15. #40915
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Pardons can't apply to future crimes.
    Unfortunately he does have the power to grant blanket pre-emptive pardon for anybody who was at the Capitol on January 6. Yeah. The Presidential pardon power is that powerful. The more reason to kick him out as soon as possible.

  16. #40916
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Unfortunately he does have the power to grant blanket pre-emptive pardon for anybody who was at the Capitol on January 6. Yeah. The Presidential pardon power is that powerful. The more reason to kick him out as soon as possible.
    Those are past crimes. You're confusing "future charges on past crimes" with "future crimes", which is what my statement was about.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  17. #40917
    Quote Originally Posted by Timester View Post
    Can it be voted by the Democratic-controlled Senate?



    Thank you, you just answered my question.
    Yah it can, but they have to wait till the state finishes counting overseas ballots and certify results. they might finish it before trump's term is over.....but it won't matter because they need the VP to break any tie anyway which puts you back till trump is out of office.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  18. #40918
    Elemental Lord zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    he might support it but he will do everything possible to delay it till it doesn't really matter anymore.
    He and the GOP has now lost control of both congress and the presidency by now. If they have any long term prospects in mind, it isn't a horrible idea for them to support something that takes Trump out of the equation for 2024.

  19. #40919
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    He can't now - he isn't the Majority Leader now. And if the GOP has any rational thoughts about the future, impeaching Trump is their best option. Bar him from future office and his entire power base is pulled out from under him.
    umm the two senators from GA have not been seated yet because the results are not certified yet in GA.

    Moscow Mitch is still technically in charge.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    He and the GOP has now lost control of both congress and the presidency by now. If they have any long term prospects in mind, it isn't a horrible idea for them to support something that takes Trump out of the equation for 2024.
    Lost control as of the 20th. maybe 22nd if certification takes that long in GA
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  20. #40920
    Legendary! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timester View Post
    Can it be voted by the Democratic-controlled Senate?



    Thank you, you just answered my question.
    Ossoff and Warnock probably won't be seated until near the end of the month. So for the time being, there will be 50 GOP senators, 46 Democrats, and 2 Independents who always vote Democratic. Georgia has until the 22nd to certify its elections, assuming no recounts are triggered (Which should be safe, since both GOP contenders conceded, and both are out of recount margins). So the Senate can seat them after that. Technically I think McConnell remains majority leader until the Senate holds another election of its leadership, which won't happen until after the Democrats have the votes to actually replace him (It is a mostly ceremonial process, but they do need the votes for it).

    Anyway, I don't see trial in the Senate happening before the 22nd, so it is safe to say both Ossoff and Warnock will cast votes. Harris is irrelevant here, because they need a 2/3s majority, not a 50/50, so she can't vote.

    I actually don't know if Roberts will preside. I think he won't, assuming the trial starts after the 20th, since the Chief Justice only presides over an impeachment of a sitting president. I am pretty sure Schumer will run the show, although McConnell might actually get it started on the 22nd or 25th.
    "We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine." DJT- Jan 22, 2020
    "And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done." DJT- Feb 26, 2020
    “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” DJT- Feb 27, 2020

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