Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[JohnBrown1917]

Naw, just two types of the same person.

Former Ron Paul supporters still covered by their parents healthcare.
Former Ron Paul supporters not covered by their parents healthcare.

Both are content to let the world burn if they dont get their way.

And your content with a ton of people never getting healthcare, we get how people on the right think.
But its still funny how you keep it up with that anarchist/communist avatar.

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An additional bonus, you get to always act indignant, because your issues will never be resolved and you are never actually participating to change that. It’s a sure way to make sure your talking points, never change.

Voting for democrats won't change anything either, what is your point? You hate democracy so much that people can't support people that actually want change?

[Endus]

No, you can't just act like this isn't a matter of controversy. My understanding is that there is much behind the scenes that kneecaps the opposition to whatever party elites may want.

And that "understanding" is conspiracy whackadoodle nonsense.

The DNC isn't manipulating its members' votes. There's no indication of any kind of large-scale corruption in the primary process.

Is it supposed to be some weird accident that Sanders' former campaign advisers are now running a Biden Super PAC? I guess shit just happens, nothing to see here.

It isn't a "weird accident". These are people who have jobs in this field, political campaigning and fundraising and the like. They worked for one candidate's Presidential campaign, and when that job was over, they looked for a new opportunity. That they're working for a colleague of their former employer is not in any way unusual. It's standard practice, and that you think this is evidence of some conspiracy is absolutely looney-tunes.

Were they supposed to sit at home with their thumbs up their butts sulking because their former employer didn't win the primary?

We can agree to disagree here, but I think you are wrong. I am willing to believe that people, even if they make a decision themselves, are not well informed. People mainly get told what to do. They get the signal from MSNBC, CNN, the NYT, or someone like Congressman James E. Clyburn - then they go to the polls.

Claiming there's secret messaging from the media is insane.

And if you just mean "they don't think about it much, and vote for a name they're comfortable with", so what? That still just means they wanted Biden, and voted for Biden. Welcome to democracy; other people don't always agree with you.

P.S. I have stated before that the corporate powers over both parties don't care who wins, that's why the Dem party elites were more concerned about screwing over Sanders than winning this election: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/27/u...delegates.html (might be paywalled, apologies). That's kind of a fluffy piece, but you can read in between the lines. We know how it played out. Sanders was on top. Biden was initially nowheresville. Then suddenly Biden was the man and you could see everyone fall in line, even Sanders. Yet another reason I am about the policies Sanders supported rather than the man himself. In the end, he's kind of a wet noodle.

"We can read between the lines" usually translates into "we can make shit up and pretend the source backs it, when it actually does not support it in any way whatsoever and we're fully aware of that".

You're making shit up, to back a nonsensical conspiracy theory, to argue against free democracy.

[Acidbaron]

Don't be surprised about the dem voters(and party) picking Biden, you do indeed need to realize its a liberal-conservative coalition party, with a few rare Soc dems littered in.
So get angry at the party because they push shit policies, but these are written up/pushed by its own members.


Accept it and move on to a new party, you live in a democracy, support a party that supports you. One that adreses income inequality, withdrews its support from Israel/SA and stops supporting so many wars.

No option in the US to move to a new party, the green party is a joke if you read up on them despite your infatuation with communism, i never cared much for idealists myself. It's nice to have dreams but dreamers don't get things done.

Now changing party is also not needed since the are movements inside the democratic party that are getting people elected that are disconnected from the old guard and also don't seek the some financial sponsors, they are also more left leaning. Change happens over time and again despite your love for communism unless you want a bloody revolution that ends up hurting the people more in the long run you need to give these things time.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

An additional bonus, you get to always act indignant, because your issues will never be resolved and you are never actually participating to change that. It’s a sure way to make sure your talking points, never change.

You also don't have to actually answer any of the pressing questions and issues of the day. That's particularly in the wheelhouse of this segment of the left.

[JohnBrown1917]

No option in the US to move to a new party, the green party is a joke if you read up on them despite your infatuation with communism, i never cared much for idealists myself. It's nice to have dreams but dreamers don't get things done.

.

The democrats have already shown that they will never change, leftists have no choices in the US besides the Greens and even smaller parties.
You can tell people to vote dems all you want, but it won't fix any of the problems these people have. Income inequality got a lot worse under Obama, it will continue to get worse under Biden.

[Endus]

No option in the US to move to a new party, the green party is a joke if you read up on them despite your infatuation with communism, i never cared much for idealists myself. It's nice to have dreams but dreamers don't get things done.

Now changing party is also not needed since the are movements inside the democratic party that are getting people elected that are disconnected from the old guard and also don't seek the some financial sponsors, they are also more left leaning. Change happens over time and again despite your love for communism unless you want a bloody revolution that ends up hurting the people more in the long run you need to give these things time.

You can support third parties/independents at the local level, with your local members of Congress. Those kinds of races can be won for a third party, and if it spreads beyond your local area, that's how a new major party is born.

When talking about how the USA chooses a President? It's a waste of goddamned time. If you're not voting for someone who has a legitimate chance of winning with the electorate, you may as well be writing in Daffy Duck for all the good that'll do.

[JohnBrown1917]

You also don't have to actually answer any of the pressing questions and issues of the day. That's particularly in the wheelhouse of this segment of the left.

Segment? Nobody who supports the Us support of Isreal's war crimes, supports candidates that will let income inequality increase, support racists... support rapists.. are not progressive left-wingers in my eyes.


How the fuck are people like Biden left-wing? How is supporting him left-wing? You want people to vote for him, but bring no solutions to the problems.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

You can support third parties/independents at the local level, with your local members of Congress. Those kinds of races can be won for a third party, and if it spreads beyond your local area, that's how a new major party is born.

When talking about how the USA chooses a President? It's a waste of goddamned time. If you're not voting for someone who has a legitimate chance of winning with the electorate, you may as well be writing in Daffy Duck for all the good that'll do.

Hell, most of the 3rd parties only show up every four years to run a candidate. Actual organizing takes work while posting snake emojis on Twitter is quick and easy.

[JohnBrown1917]

When talking about how the USA chooses a President? It's a waste of goddamned time. If you're not voting for someone who has a legitimate chance of winning with the electorate, you may as well be writing in Daffy Duck for all the good that'll do.

Or just not vote.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Segment? Nobody who supports the Us support of Isreal's war crimes, supports candidates that will let income inequality increase, support racists... support rapists.. are not progressive left-wingers in my eyes.


How the fuck are people like Biden left-wing? How is supporting him left-wing? You want people to vote for him, but bring no solutions to the problems.

Are you ever going to answer my question on how "the left" is going to replace the Human Rights Campaign, particularly when they decided to ignore every major LGBTQ issue that roiled the community during the primary?

You dropped it last time I asked.

[Endus]

The democrats have already shown that they will never change, leftists have no choices in the US besides the Greens and even smaller parties.
You can tell people to vote dems all you want, but it won't fix any of the problems these people have. Income inequality got a lot worse under Obama, it will continue to get worse under Biden.

Massive overhaul in their support for LGBT rights and freedoms since the '90s.
Growing overt support for universal healthcare, to the point that half the candidates in this year's primary had specific tentpoles on that subject, not something really discussed prior to the 2010s.
Shifting against the death penalty in the 2010s.
Stronger consideration for issues related to climate change since their positions in the '90s, broadly across the entire party.
Increasing support for significant bumps to the minimum wage.

Claiming that "the Democrats will never change" is as non-factual as anything Trump and his supporters go on about regarding the Dems. It's a lie. A really naked, obvious, malicious lie.

[Acidbaron]

The democrats have already shown that they will never change, leftists have no choices in the US besides the Greens and even smaller parties.
You can tell people to vote dems all you want, but it won't fix any of the problems these people have. Income inequality got a lot worse under Obama, it will continue to get worse under Biden.

"The democrats", this is your first error. You speak of the democrats as if they are of one mind, one ideology while they are not. This is shown time and time again by the division among them and ideological differences. This very thread you are posting in is testament of that.

As for them "never changing", other people are getting elected without help of the old guard, without ties to the old guard. You are free to prove me wrong by explaining the AOC election victory and how she is part of that clique.

"Things got worse under Obama", Obama or the democrats held the white house not the entire government looking at the entire two terms and accrediting everything to a single person is being dishonest or not correctly understanding how the politics over there work, i know your love with communism but authoritarian rule is not a common form of government.

Do you wish to try again?

[Felya]

How the fuck are people like Biden left-wing? How is supporting him left-wing? You want people to vote for him, but bring no solutions to the problems.

Because you take Trump and you take Biden, place them both on a political scale. Stand between them... which way do you turn to look at Biden?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

What happens to the window, if Trump wins again?

[JohnBrown1917]

Are you ever going to answer my question on how "the left" is going to replace the Human Rights Campaign, particularly when they decided to ignore every major LGBTQ issue that roiled the community during the primary?

You dropped it last time I asked.

The hell you even on about? And ignoring LGBT issues? Are you just making shit up?

I get you don't care about the poor or all the countries your beloved American imperialists bomb, killing god knows how many each year, but atleast be honest about it. Or is getting female drone pilots enough progress?

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"The democrats", this is your first error. You speak of the democrats as if they are of one mind, one ideology while they are not. This is shown time and time again by the division among them and ideological differences. This very thread you are posting in is testament of that.
?

Yea, between conservative idealogies and the liberal ones. Nothing that will actually address income inequality.

[Acidbaron]

You can support third parties/independents at the local level, with your local members of Congress. Those kinds of races can be won for a third party, and if it spreads beyond your local area, that's how a new major party is born.

When talking about how the USA chooses a President? It's a waste of goddamned time. If you're not voting for someone who has a legitimate chance of winning with the electorate, you may as well be writing in Daffy Duck for all the good that'll do.

Oh it's not much different than i his here then, we also have parties that exist purely on a local level. But as you clarified this is about a presidential election and i was also making that comment with that in mind.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

The hell you even on about? And ignoring LGBT issues? Are you just making shit up?

Where was "the left" in Idaho and South Dakota? Bernie was raking in millions. Not even a peep. Well, a peep that endorsed Joe Rogan's semi-endorsement, I guess. Then a lot of attacks on LGBTQ rights activists.

I get you don't care about the poor or all the countries your beloved American imperialists bomb, killing god knows how many each year, but atleast be honest about it.

Are you going to answer or not? I'm glad you're getting angry.

[Felya]

I get you don't care about the poor or all the countries your beloved American imperialists bomb, killing god knows how many each year, but atleast be honest about it. Or is getting female drone pilots enough progress?

Let’s discuss Overton window and see what your suggested actions, actually accomplish?

[Machismo]

The hell you even on about? And ignoring LGBT issues? Are you just making shit up?

I get you don't care about the poor or all the countries your beloved American imperialists bomb, killing god knows how many each year, but atleast be honest about it.

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Yea, between conservative idealogies and the liberal ones. Nothing that will actually address income inequality.

You mean... you want more communism?

If you are outraged at the thought of capitalism... then it's probably a good thing you are not in the United States.

If you like, I will gladly fly you (one way) to any utopia of your choosing. It'll be my treat, but you have to stay there. Deal? It would appear that Eastern Europe and Japan may be your best bets.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Let’s discuss Overton window and see what your suggested actions, actually accomplish?

He's just pissy his version of the left is largely made up of young, rich white boys screaming about socialism while complaining about how black people vote and how civil rights are a distration from economic issues.

[Acidbaron]

Yea, between conservative idealogies and the liberal ones. Nothing that will actually address income inequality.

Fiscal conservatism is not about a lack of solidarity but about building in accountability, but this is getting wildly off topic and i have very little interest in discussing such things with a person who worships communism as idealists live in the clouds while the rest of us need things that actually work. After all, the entire dark red modern day mantra is "tax the rich and give us more governmental power and money and we'll fix it!", not going to happen we tried that in eastern germany it failed, hard.