Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Sunseeker]

What you're essentially saying here is that we're your enemy, it seems. So, why should we help you when you think we're the goddamn devil?

Because you need our votes.

If y'all want to argue that Hillary lost due to Bernie voters, then your argument is you can't win without our support.

[Felya]

I'm not getting shit on in this thread, except by some theo simp ban evader.

This is a local shop, for local people... there is nothing for you here...



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If y'all want to argue that Hillary lost due to Bernie voters, then your argument is you can't win without our support.

Democrats can’t win without those who choose to not vote or vote third party? Sounds like they need to find a more reliable voting base.

[Sunseeker]

Democrats can’t win without those who choose to not vote or vote third party? Sounds like they need to find a more reliable voting base.

Seems like a good plan. Let me know when it happens and I can resume voting for my preferred candidate without having to listen to you whine about how we're some grand traitors to the cause because we didn't fall in line.

I'm not gonna hold my breath for that day though.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Because you need our votes.

I actually quite doubt that. The Sanders holdouts -- and, yes, I know you're voting for Biden -- are quite small. You've done the opposite of make your platform necessary. You guys ran an outsider campaign, broke on the walls, and now the majority on both sides are coalescing through political calculation. That's a GOOD thing. Take advantage of it and stay inside instead of running another outsider campaign. Build the infrastructure to push your policies, and don't tie it to a politician. Politicians lose elections. Build something more enduring. Let the bomb throwers remain outside, too. They suck.

[Felya]

Seems like a good plan. Let me know when it happens and I can resume voting for my preferred candidate without having to listen to you whine about how we're some grand traitors to the cause because we didn't fall in line.

I’m sorry, I thought you were voting Biden? Why exactly would I call anyone a traitor, no less you?

I'm not gonna hold my breath for that day though.

Well, if you were one of those people claiming they won’t vote or will vote third party, then holding your breath until the election, will have the same effect as you’d intend.

Edit: almost forgot... /rimshot

[Sunseeker]

I’m sorry, I thought you were voting Biden? Why exactly would I call anyone a traitor, no less you?

Being a Bernie supporter I regularly have to repeat I'm voting for Biden. Because as soon as the words "I'm a Bernie supporter..." fall out of my mouth I'm almost instantly shit on.

It gets tiresome.

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I actually quite doubt that. The Sanders holdouts -- and, yes, I know you're voting for Biden -- are quite small. You've done the opposite of make your platform necessary. You guys ran an outsider campaign, broke on the walls, and now the majority on both sides are coalescing through political calculation. That's a GOOD thing. Take advantage of it and stay inside instead of running another outsider campaign. Build the infrastructure to push your policies, and don't tie it to a politician. Politicians lose elections. Build something more enduring. Let the bomb throwers remain outside, too. They suck.

Sanders wasn't the first, and he won't be the last.

[Felya]

Being a Bernie supporter I regularly have to repeat I'm voting for Biden. Because as soon as the words "I'm a Bernie supporter..." fall out of my mouth I'm almost instantly shit on.

But, is that true right now? Despite pretty much repeating my self several times, while hearing claims my posting is somehow obtuse... I think my demeanor has been chill... a little playful, but not weird...

It gets tiresome.

Hopefully this clears it up and a brighter future is ahead... excelsior!!!

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Sanders wasn't the first, and he won't be the last.

Oooookay. A bit of generalized history for you. Tribal chieftains don't get to quietly retire. When they stop producing they get knifed, and more often then not their polities fall shortly after.

Institutions last a lot longer.

[Sunseeker]

Oooookay. A bit of generalized history for you. Tribal chieftains don't get to quietly retire. When they stop producing they get knifed, and more often then not their polities fall shortly after.

Institutions last a lot longer.

A bit of generalized history for you: how much progress did the LGBT movement make keeping their head down and working inside the confines of the system that was run by people who at best didn't give two shits about them, and at worst actively opposed their efforts?

[GreenGoldSharpie]

A bit of generalized history for you: how much progress did the LGBT movement make keeping their head down and working inside the confines of the system that was run by people who at best didn't give two shits about them, and at worst actively opposed their efforts?

I would respond to this by urging you to look up Illinoi's HB 1785 and looking at who signed it into law. I shot my congresswoman a thank you for voting for it. She was a Republican.

The LGBTQ movement, in general, is built on inside access to the political process.

[Sunseeker]

I would respond to this by urging you to look up Illinoi's HB 1785 and looking at who signed it into law. I shot my congresswoman a thank you for voting for it. She was a Republican.

The LGBTQ movement, in general, is built on inside access.

You...do understand the LGBT movement is a little older than 2017 yes?

[beanman12345]

TBH most of these people annoyed the ever fuck out of me in the primary threads. But idk if anyone here was a Biden supporter. Some here might still shit on bernie supporters but their first picks didn't win either. I look at this thread as a coalition of primary losers, vs trump supporters and people who actively argue to not vote Biden, who I have zero respect for and will shit on them. Idgaf I don't want Trump for 4 more years.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

You...do understand the LGBT movement is a little older than 2017 yes?

I understand that the vast majority of political accomplishment by the movement has been done since the late-1990s. Also that recapturing HHS, DoJ, and DoEd are far more vital for the movement than just about anything else outside of avoiding SCOTUS disasters. It's a sexy thing to march and make hay. I get that it's less sexy to insure that kids aren't discriminated against in school, and that my community has fair access to housing, work, and medical treatment.

[Sunseeker]

I understand that the vast majority of political accomplishment by the movement has been done since the late-1990s. Also that recapturing HHS, DoJ, and DoEd are far more vital for the movement than just about anything else outside of avoiding SCOTUS disasters. It's a sexy thing to march and make hay. I get that it's less sexy to insure that kids aren't discriminated against in school, and that my community has fair access to housing, work, and medical treatment.

My point is you had to do the former to be able to do the latter. The progressive movement hasn't made it to the latter stages, much as everyone bitching about it thinks it ought to.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

My point is you had to do the former to be able to do the latter. The progressive movement hasn't made it to the latter stages, much as everyone bitching about it thinks it ought to.

Okay. Enjoy decades in the wilderness then because that's the comparison you're making currently here. I gotta tell you, though, that with Nathan Robinson and David Sirota deleting tweets about Tara Reade and the way some progressives are declaring that Bernie was the compromise I think you're in for a rough time if that is the route you choose to go.

[Sunseeker]

Okay. Enjoy decades in the wilderness then because that's the comparison you're making currently here. I gotta tell you, though, that with Nathan Robinson and David Sirota deleting tweets about Tara Reade and the way some progressives are declaring that Bernie was the compromise I think you're in for a rough time if that is the route you choose to go.

Yeah, it's gonna be a while.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Yeah, it's gonna be a while.

Good luck, and I genuinely mean that.

[beanman12345]

Yeah, it's gonna be a while.

I hope Katie Porter picks up the torch. She has been slaying the past year.

[Elegiac]

Sanders wasn't the first, and he won't be the last.

Of course not.

But hopefully Sanders' successors are a little more in tune with a lot of the issues that the current Bernie coalition has not been about to wrangle; namely their inability to translate a reformist platform that is fundamentally class-based into a political environment that is tainted by significant racial and gender animus.

Every time one of Bernie's supporters complains about identity politics is a small encapsulation of why the coalition didn't crystallize. Future progressives need to play smarter rather than just being blue Ron Pauls.

[Louisa Bannon]

The progressive movement hasn't made it to the latter stages, much as everyone bitching about it thinks it ought to.

Because imbeciles never sleep, never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by ignorance.

So, to your mind, the shift from FDR to an ever more greedy, corporatist agenda is naturally how the Democratic party should have evolved over the decades? It's not just overweening greed on the part of Dem politicians that caused that?