Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[cubby]

That's not what the suggestion ever was. The reality, no matter how much it sucks, is that those things aren't happening in the next four years. Biden won't change the system. But he won't actively build a roadblock to real change the way Trump will. Think about more than just the next four years.

Exactly. The next four years, and only if Biden is in the White House, will be about fixing the last four years. And possibly setting the stage for the next 20. The biggest thing will be to try and start healing the emotional divide that Trump has exacerbated, while at the same time bringing his corruption to justice. Hopefully, future SecTreas Warren, can help with that.

Who should we put at the helm of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission?

[Monster Hunter]

They change you want won’t happen as long as Boomer gen and the older Gen-X are still voting for their outdated beliefs and policy’s.

Culture change is fucking slow.

The civil rights act was in 1964.
That was just 56 years ago.
Those racist and ass backward politicians and people are still mostly alive.
They raised their children same way they were raised.

People who want good change for all have a Mount Everest of a fight up wards.

there are a lot of interesting discussion points there.

on the generation point, though people generally believe each generation is more progressive than the last, that's not always the case, nor does a progressive generation always remain as progressive as it ages, for example the boomers of today were called the Hippy Generation back then. to think they were the generation the grew up on singers like john Lennon is crazy when you here there majority current views on sex, sexuality and socialised healthcare. its a strange irony that the "free love" generation are now the ones lecturing on sexual morality.

you point about culture change is a very deep conversation, in Europe and more specifically the UK as that's the history i know best, culture change seems to take roughly 50-100 years, it was around 50 years roughly after the abolition movement in the UK was founded i think 1783 to when slavery was outlawed in the empire in 1833 though one could argue that had a head start slavery was already not recognised in English law since the Cartwright case in 1569 and affirmed in butts v penny 1677 so the mood of the general public was already against the practise the lords were engaging in, a more closer case study of cultural change would probably be gay rights, George Cecil Ives would set up the first homosexual rights group in England in 1897 by 1910 there were very publicly well know gay places to socialise such as the Lily Pond and the first gay pub The Cave of the Golden Calf, one might then wonder if the view on homosexuality had softened that such places were allowed to operate during that period, but personally i think its more a testament to the same Victorian mentality that also saw the rise of BDSM as the legislation would actually be increasingly tightened even if it wasn't at that point being fully enforced, this would eventually culminate in Sir John Nott-Bower, commissioner of Scotland Yard starting in 1952 the largest crack down and persecution of homosexuals since medieval England, going as far as to use "bait" officers to trap homosexuals soliciting sex. what ever John Nott-Bower had a hoped to achieve was scuppered though as this would push parliament (many of whom had been targeted or had friends targeted by Nott-Bower in his attempted stings) to commission the Wolfenden report in 1954 that would recommend legalising homosexuality, this would be endorsed in 1957 by Archbishop of Canterbury, Geoffrey Fisher. finaly proposed in parliament in 1965 by Conservative peer, Lord Arran, this was passed by the house of lords and then passed by the house of commons a year later (back then the lords could still make laws, they cant now), unfortunately due to the election being called in 1966 the bill was lost (bills not yet having royal assent are lost when an election is called and must start again in the UK), interestingly the conservative leader Humphry Berkeley would ascribed his defeat in the 1966 general election to the unpopularity of this action, either way the bill came back in 1967 under labour and was finally given royal ascent. this was exactly 70 years after the founding of the first gay rights movement that legislation would finally pass, and yet dispite this it wouldent be untill 1995 that less than 50% of the British public believed the homosexuality was wrong. cite: https://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-...sexuality.aspx.

so that's 98 years from beginning of the campaign up until a small majority acceptance. and even then in 2012 35% of conservatives 29% of labour and 22% of liberal democrats still when questioned believed that homosexuality was wrong.

so whats the point of all this wall of text, well apart from being a fun bit of checking and research on my end and hopefully something educationally on history, i think it goes to show that, no one should get there hope's up on massive cultural changes by one election, or one decade or really even one life time, quick sweeping societal changes out side of occurring as a result or part of some great calamity like loosing a world war or the country collapsing, just don't happen, activism, campaigning for social change, that's a life time commitment, a long road and its not always going to go in the right direction, between 1983 and 1989 the public view of homosexuality in the uk actually worsened before starting to fall again, that stuff happens though, its a long road and despite what some would say there is no really clear and correct path to get to the result you want.

when i was much younger and much more impatient and angry guy my uncle said to me "society is like an old mini van with its gear box in backwards, its moves forward slowly, noisily, frequently stalls and now and then breaks down, but you would be surprised how fast it can reverse if your not careful"

good luck in the election anyway folks.

[Funtringas]

so that's 98 years from beginning of the campaign up until a small majority acceptance. and even then in 2012 35% of conservatives 29% of labour and 22% of liberal democrats still when questioned believed that homosexuality was wrong.

The law changed because half the aristocracy and tory party were queer. That has no bearing on American blacks who have little to no political representation or any other sort of power.

[beanman12345]

Exactly. The next four years, and only if Biden is in the White House, will be about fixing the last four years. And possibly setting the stage for the next 20. The biggest thing will be to try and start healing the emotional divide that Trump has exacerbated, while at the same time bringing his corruption to justice. Hopefully, future SecTreas Warren, can help with that.

Who should we put at the helm of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission?

It might be enough to fix the last 4 years, and hopefully we have enough people in place that we can pass some laws that will further limit the powers of the president. If anything that's the best solution. Because Fox news ain't going away, Rush Limbaugh idk if he'll die from cancer, but like minded radio personalities aren't going away. There is never going to be any healing when we have people stirring up hate and division with tens of millions of viewers across the spectrum with their rhetoric, lies, and targetted misinformation. That is the real core problem in america imo, that trump is just a symptom of, I mean, he just does what these people tell him to do at the end of the day.

[Monster Hunter]

The law changed because half the aristocracy and tory party were queer. That has no bearing on American blacks who have little to no political representation or any other sort of power.

possibly. but that was only 1 of 2 examples of how slow change takes. whats your reasoning on the 50 year turn around on slavery ?

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It might be enough to fix the last 4 years, and hopefully we have enough people in place that we can pass some laws that will further limit the powers of the president. If anything that's the best solution. Because Fox news ain't going away, Rush Limbaugh idk if he'll die from cancer, but like minded radio personalities aren't going away. There is never going to be any healing when we have people stirring up hate and division with tens of millions of viewers across the spectrum with their rhetoric, lies, and targetted misinformation. That is the real core problem in america imo, that trump is just a symptom of, I mean, he just does what these people tell him to do at the end of the day.

this is more needed than you think.

the presidential system is really dated and really flawed, and was also produced by some flawed reasoning of its era. people need to remember there was the floated idea of George Washington just being named king of america, and the biggest doubt about Americas survival both in america and in Europe was literal "if" a nation can survive without a monarch many were predicting america and its new style of "democracy" would rip its self to bits, which it kind of did 100 years later but it survived that.

but that aside the whole idea of "the president" is entirely based on the idea of an elected proxy monarch intended to of set the non issue that was not having a monarch, something that's been shown to be both redundant and in many ways counter productive to the functioning of a democracy. the american system is 300 years old and really hasn't changed all that much, in that space of time many other nations have gone from absolute monarchy, and evolved democratic systems and even federal systems that have proven much more effective and fair though also not perfect.

as democracy's go, the american system does look really dated, a don't think many people actualy think that only having two party's with any power at all was either intended by the founding fathers or an ideal situation to be in, which isn't good when they call them selves the bastion of democracy. out side of dictator's the US president is the closest thing left in the world to a real king, even if it is only for 4 years. and arguably kings were easier to remove.

[beanman12345]

It's needed just as much as I think it's needed, I wouldn't have said it otherwise, like seriously wtf?

[Funtringas]

possibly. but that was only 1 of 2 examples of how slow change takes. whats your reasoning on the 50 year turn around on slavery ?

I think from the point of view of a slave owner it is more economically viable to not have direct financial responsibility for making the slave doesn't starve to death. That's why you don't have formal slavery. Wage slavery is more profitable for the slavemaster.

[eschatological]

Steve King, notoriously racist Iowa Congress Critter has lost his Republican primary for the House of Representatives tonight.

What that means is no matter who wins in the November election, Dem or Republican, that racist fuck is kicked to the curb in Jan 2021. One down, a shit ton to go.

[Machismo]

Steve King, notoriously racist Iowa Congress Critter has lost his Republican primary for the House of Representatives tonight.

What that means is no matter who wins in the November election, Dem or Republican, that racist fuck is kicked to the curb in Jan 2021. One down, a shit ton to go.

He's a racist shit stain, and all the people who covered for him over the years are enablers for that racist shit stain.

[cubby]

Steve King, notoriously racist Iowa Congress Critter has lost his Republican primary for the House of Representatives tonight.

What that means is no matter who wins in the November election, Dem or Republican, that racist fuck is kicked to the curb in Jan 2021. One down, a shit ton to go.

That is fantastic news. We're looking for hundreds of little victories like this across America, aiming for the death of Trump's GOP but a thousand cuts.

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North Carolina says goodbye to the 2020 GOP National Convention*.

And those shit-stain idiots (Trump's GOP) don't have the foresight to realize this will cost them dearly in the state and specifically their Electoral votes.

*Two sources with knowledge cautioned that it appears the decision isn't final. But the sources say there have been tense conversations in the last 48 hours between the RNC and the governor's office ahead of Trump's self-imposed deadline, which is Wednesday.

See also Trump-the-bully not getting his way, and cutting off his nose, to spite his face.

[pathora44]

Steve King, notoriously racist Iowa Congress Critter has lost his Republican primary for the House of Representatives tonight.

What that means is no matter who wins in the November election, Dem or Republican, that racist fuck is kicked to the curb in Jan 2021. One down, a shit ton to go.

Awesome that the racist piece of shit is his ass kicked to the curb. Let's see every one else with an R next to their name follow right behind him in Nov.

[Machismo]

That is fantastic news. We're looking for hundreds of little victories like this across America, aiming for the death of Trump's GOP but a thousand cuts.

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North Carolina says goodbye to the 2020 GOP National Convention*.

And those shit-stain idiots (Trump's GOP) don't have the foresight to realize this will cost them dearly in the state and specifically their Electoral votes.



See also Trump-the-bully not getting his way, and cutting off his nose, to spite his face.

If they really do move the GOP convention, that may actually lose them NC. I long expected Trump to take NC, but if he doesn't, then an Electoral victory will be damn hard for him.

[cubby]

If they really do move the GOP convention, that may actually lose them NC. I long expected Trump to take NC, but if he doesn't, then an Electoral victory will be damn hard for him.

Exactly - IIRC, and since I'm already half way through a bottle of wine I'm going to have to dig deep, the Electoral math almost requires him to win NC to retain office. Obviously the calculus is complicated, but it's also somewhat straightforward, with most of the variables now leaning in favor of the Democrats (i.e. no one is worried that Oregon or New York is going to swing Red in November).

[Machismo]

Exactly - IIRC, and since I'm already half way through a bottle of wine I'm going to have to dig deep, the Electoral math almost requires him to win NC to retain office. Obviously the calculus is complicated, but it's also somewhat straightforward, with most of the variables now leaning in favor of the Democrats (i.e. no one is worried that Oregon or New York is going to swing Red in November).

The big states were always going to be Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, North Carolina, and Florida. Arizona is actually in play, which is good for the Dems. Minnesota also looks like the Dems will lock it down.

Florida is going to go to the GOP, the Dems are simply not capable of pushing against the old racist people hard enough. They should still show a presence, but it's not a reliable mechanism for 270. If the Dems get Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan, then nothing else matters. If the Democrats pick up Arizona, then they can even lose Michigan, Pennsylvania, or Wisconsin, and still win.

In the end, we'll see who manages to get out and vote.

[MooChampIsApolitical]

He's a racist shit stain, and all the people who covered for him over the years are enablers for that racist shit stain.

And you are one such enabler, M. People should be allowed to be racists right. You are a shit stain yourself according to you. How ironic. So why are you complaining?

Yes, I think a company should be legally allowed to refuse to serve black people. It would make them racist shitbags, but they should be free to be racist shitbags. And yes, they would be racist, and they should be free to be racist.

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The big states were always going to be Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, North Carolina, and Florida. Arizona is actually in play, which is good for the Dems. Minnesota also looks like the Dems will lock it down.

Florida is going to go to the GOP, the Dems are simply not capable of pushing against the old racist people hard enough. They should still show a presence, but it's not a reliable mechanism for 270. If the Dems get Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan, then nothing else matters. If the Democrats pick up Arizona, then they can even lose Michigan, Pennsylvania, or Wisconsin, and still win.

In the end, we'll see who manages to get out and vote.

Why the fake concern when you are not voting for Biden yourself?

Biden is a creepy old dude, and represents almost none of the political stances I want. I will not be voting for the guy.

[Machismo]

And you are one such enabler, M. People should be allowed to be racists right. You are a shit stain yourself according to you. How ironic. So why are you complaining?

Are you saying racism should be made illegal? How exactly would you do that?

He has no objections to the misuse of the Amendment that leads to the promotion of racism. And you are defending him. Or are you saying the Amendment is supposed to be used like that? Birds of a feather I guess?

That quote literally shows you as the hypocrite that you are. "I hate racists but I am fine with allowing policies that encourages racism". Your very own words. Don't blame me. And no, Trump's handling of the Covid has made me changed my mind. So if you hate Trump so much like you've said, why are you not voting for Biden? And why are you acting condescendingly towards those who are on the fence since you are not voting for him yourself?

It's a shame you keep getting caught lying... and on multiple accounts, no less.

Cheers!

[MooChampIsApolitical]

Are you saying racism should be made illegal? How exactly would you do that?





It's a shame you keep getting caught lying... and on multiple accounts, no less.

Cheers!

Where is the lying part? You were complaining about racist enablers when you are someone who is all good when it comes to Free Racism mate. Hypocrite much? So why the fake concern when you are not voting for Biden yourself?

[Machismo]

Where is the lying part? You were complaining about racist enablers when you are someone who is all good when it comes to Free Racism mate. Hypocrite much?

I already covered that, enjoy!!!

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ection/page297

Cheers!

[MooChampIsApolitical]

Covered what? Where? Can you be more specific? Why are you dodging the Biden question?

[Machismo]

Covered what? Where? Can you be more specific? Why are you dodging the Biden question?

I already covered it in my smackdown of your nonsense and lies.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ection/page297

Cheers!