Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Edge-]

I used to be a communications guy, only from college major and debate. To me, Defund means remove them completely, take away all their funding. Which is not the goal, right?

From the current departments: Yes. It's been getting a lot of talk lately, but Camden is a good example of the police department being defunded and rebuilt back up.

At the very least, it means reducing the overall funding for police departments within city budget and shifting those funds to other programs that police have intentionally or unintentionally absorbed over the decades. More for mental health services, social safety nets for housing issues, drug addiction and rehabilitation services, social workers for domestic issues, more funding for parole officers to give them more tools to help people reintegrate into society (though that last one comes with a lot of related issues to policing writ-large as well)

Basically, tear down the existing institution and remake it to fit the current needs of the communities they are supposed to serve. Because even if you ignore the long history of police misbehavior, their current behavior, especially over the past week, is plenty appalling enough to warrant it.

[Elegiac]

That's not real.... No way.

And doctors and nurses struggle to have basic necessities. During a pandemic.

You bet it's real. And it's not alone:



This is reflective of how insidious policing in the US has become. We know that poverty causes crime and disorder, but the answer has been to cut from social services and pour it into more cops and more prisons. And then said cops reinforce the idea that they are the solution to the problem they are contributing to with the "Thin Blue Line" garbage.

[PACOX]

Based on what someone said the other day about the amount of cash involved with the US police force (captain having his own plane or whatever it was), by all means, defund some of them.

You guys are arguing over the use of a single word and how it isn't the right word, doing the Republican's work for them.

The NYPD and LAPD are literally small armies. Hell they are more equipped than a lot of nations. Paramilitary groups beholden to no one but their own agenda, showing time and time again they only protect and serve themselves.

What I ready here today is these so called moderate-liberals who who wanting their cake and to eat it too.

They want the support of minorities. Minorities NEED someone who is going to help systemic injustice in America. They want minorities to concedetheir values, values that literally mean life and death, to people who love to sing 'well just stop being lazy and pull yourself up the bootstraps'. These moderate liberals aren't asking but telling minorities to endure injustice longer to appease Confederate flag flying, Thin Blue Line, 'well if you don't play stupid games... people who would never do the same.

[[I]We want your vote but check your liberties at the door. Have you guys tried peacefully protesting?[I] Meanwhile peaceful protesters are getting slapped with batons.

Cowards. Thank whatever you believe in that the alternative to this' return to normalcy, peace over justice' bullshit is Trump.

[starlord]

Who's going to elect those that will do something? Right now, the protesters. They're the ones who are gonna vote those folks in, and they're already on board.

Who's not? The folks sitting at home pearl clutching or fence-sitting. If they're not on board after a week of police brutality caught on video and shared across the internet and across national and local TV shows, on radio etc., then they're not gonna be on board if you try to use baby-talk to get them to agree that maybe the cops shouldn't fucking murder and brutalize peaceful protesters out there pushing for accountability and reform.

This is not a "compromise" issue at the local level. I cannot afford to be any longer, because it's been a "compromise issue" for decades, and that "compromise" has been continue murder and brutality at the hands of the police.

Which is why I don't actually mind Biden not saddling up with the "Defund the Police" slogan/movement. Because he needs to reach those people to get elected for very different reasons, and because honestly, I don't think anyone would fucking believe him if he did saddle up to it.

again, it's not about "compromise", it's about the messaging.
you think the protestors themselves will be enough? no, you also need the people at home, clutching their pearls, listening to sirens and gunshots and hoping their neighborhood isn't targeted next.
they might very well be on board with police reform, reducing budgets, all that jazz.
don't drive them away.
you wonder why there hasn't been radical reform?
people didn't vote for it.

[Felya]

again, it's not about "compromise", it's about the messaging.

When talking to someone who does not speak your language, screaming louder and getting more aggressive, will not help.

[Elegiac]

you wonder why there hasn't been radical reform?
people didn't vote for it.

Man it's almost like the people saying "pursue reform through the proper channels" know that the proper channels are controlled by the people who are opposed to reform.

[PACOX]

Press Sec. Kayleigh McEnany: "Mitt Romney can say three words outside on Pennsylvania Avenue but I would note this -- that President Trump won 8% of the black vote."

Haha! 8 percent? I guess she is bragging about that number, plus they lie is it even 8%?

I wanted to post in Trump thread, but sorta relevant in this post.

138,847,000 - rough estimate of people who voted in 2016.


Let's just apply census data to that number

16,661,640 is the total number of black votes. Trump says he got 8%.

1,332,931.2 aka 0.9% of the votes cast in 2016.

This clown lost the popular vote by twice that number.

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again, it's not about "compromise", it's about the messaging.
you think the protestors themselves will be enough? no, you also need the people at home, clutching their pearls, listening to sirens and gunshots and hoping their neighborhood isn't targeted next.
they might very well be on board with police reform, reducing budgets, all that jazz.
don't drive them away.
you wonder why there hasn't been radical reform?
people didn't vote for it.

You convinced me.

Black Lives Matters is hence forth All Lives Matter so Karen with the MAGA Hat can feel good about voting for Biden.

[Edge-]

you think the protestors themselves will be enough? no, you also need the people at home, clutching their pearls, listening to sirens and gunshots and hoping their neighborhood isn't targeted next.

Given that the only people we've really seen targeting neighborhoods for any reason are law enforcement shooting people with pepper balls for being on their front porch, or dragging people off the streets while walking home at night after curfew, if these people ain't already on board, they're not gonna be on board.

And if they're worried about black and brown people coming to rape and murder them during this time, that's probably because they're racist garbage to begin with, because that shit ain't happenin right now.

they might very well be on board with police reform, reducing budgets, all that jazz.

Where the fuck they been for the past decade+ then?

you wonder why there hasn't been radical reform?
people didn't vote for it.

A great many have. But believe it or not, voting doesn't always solve every issue.

[starlord]

Man it's almost like the people saying "pursue reform through the proper channels" know that the proper channels are controlled by the people who are opposed to reform.

lets look at los angeles;

http://www.laalmanac.com/election/el02.php

[Elegiac]

You convinced me.

Black Lives Matters is hence forth All Lives Matter so Karen with the MAGA Hat can feel good about voting for Biden.

I dunno man I think Karen is getting pretty shot of police brutality too:

[Felya]

Black Lives Matters is hence forth All Lives Matter so Karen with the MAGA Hat can feel good about voting for Biden.

That’s not what he is saying. Black Lives Matter is a completely benign statement. There is nothing about it that’s sensational or in any way extraordinary. Anyone who thinks it’s somehow offensive or sensational, is racist prick. The problem, defund the police is not the same... what he is saying, is that defund the police, needs something that is as basic as Black Lives Matter... police reform is exactly that and can be exactly the same as what people call defunding the police in its execution.

[Elegiac]

That’s not what he is saying. Black Lives Matter is a completely benign statement. There is nothing about it that’s sensational or in any way extraordinary. Anyone who thinks it’s somehow offensive or sensational, is racist prick. The problem, defund the police is not the same... what he is saying, is that defund the police, needs something that is as basic as Black Lives Matter... police reform is exactly that and can be exactly the same as what people call defunding the police in its execution.

You have it backwards.

"Defund the police" is a clear and concise message. "Reform the police" is vague as all hell.

[starlord]

You have it backwards.

"Defund the police" is a clear and concise message. "Reform the police" is vague as all hell.

if i google "defund the police" what pops up is essentially articles saying "but what does it *really* mean?" which is not a great sign for getting your message across.

[kaelleria]

You have it backwards.

"Defund the police" is a clear and concise message. "Reform the police" is vague as all hell.

And defund the police had 16% support in the last available public polling.

When people say defund the majority of people believe you mean completely cut off and get rid of law enforcement...

[Felya]

You have it backwards.

"Defund the police" is a clear and concise message. "Reform the police" is vague as all hell.

Yes, the vagueness is the point... the action needs to be in the details, the same as it would be under defund the police, but without the implication of lawlessness... one that doesn’t exist in reality, but requires explanation. Reform the police opens the door, while defund the police shuts it. You cannot let bad actors exploit misunderstanding... this isn’t about Karen, it’s alt right, Fox News and all of conservative media, pushing a narrative. You may say they don’t mater, but they vote... including locally.

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if i google "defund the police" what pops up is essentially articles saying "but what does it *really* mean?" which is not a great sign for getting your message across.

Note, my point is that it’s benign, not that it’s concise or clear. It simply doesn’t have a stigma to exploit...

[Elegiac]

And defund the police had 16% support in the last available public polling.

When people say defund the majority of people believe you mean completely cut off and get rid of law enforcement...

Thanks to people like you, no doubt. But I've already said my piece on why it's the message of choice and why nitpicking of this sort is bordering on offensive coming as it does from primarily white moderates and liberal who are the among the least impacted demographics by this issue:

We are arguing that those names represent the same nonsense reform packages that have done exactly fuck all to address this issue and betray a stance that, even now, the main concern is looking presentable. And we're arguing that those names betray an internalisation of the belief that tone is more important than content, which is something that is deliberately buttressed in our culture precisely because it's a convenient cudgel against actual reform.

At some point the alternative to playing the name game is going to be actually burning shit down. Perhaps you can think of a politically correct way to rebrand arson while you're at it?

[starlord]

Thanks to people like you, no doubt. But I've already said my piece on why it's the message of choice and why nitpicking of this sort is bordering on offensive coming as it does from primarily white moderates and liberal who are the among the least impacted demographics by this issue.

At some point the alternative to playing the name game is going to be actually burning shit down. Perhaps you can think of a politically correct way to rebrand arson while you're at it?

some of the most conservative and religious people i've met are minorities. do not dismiss any criticism as moderate "white liberals."

[Elegiac]

some of the most conservative and religious people i've met are minorities. do not dismiss any criticism as moderate "white liberals."

Yeah? Name one.

[Felya]

Thanks to people like you, no doubt. But I've already said my piece on why it's the message of choice and why nitpicking of this sort is bordering on offensive coming as it does from primarily white moderates and liberal who are the among the least impacted demographics by this issue.

At some point the alternative to playing the name game is going to be actually burning shit down. Perhaps you can think of a politically correct way to rebrand arson while you're at it?

Wouldn’t it be worse if some white person fucked it up, by threatening arson? How would a white arsonist screaming Black Lives Matter actually work?

[Elegiac]

Wouldn’t it be worse if some white person fucked it up, by threatening arson? How would a white arsonist screaming Black Lives Matter actually work?

Why don't we listen what an actual Black woman has to say on the subject, shall we?

"Why do you burn down the community? Why do you burn down your own neighborhood?" IT'S NOT OURS! We don't OWN anything! We don't own ANYTHING! There is - Trevor Noah said it so beautifully last night - there's a social contract that we all have, that if you steal or if I steal, then the person who is in authority comes in and they fix the situation, but the person who fixes the situation is KILLING US! So the social contract is BROKEN. And if the social contract is broken, when why the fuck do I give a shit about burning the fucking Football Hall of Fame, about burning a fucking Target? You BROKE the contract.

When you killed us in the streets and didn't give a FUCK! You broke the contract when for 400 years we played your game and built your wealth. You broke the contract when we built our wealth again, on our own, by our bootstraps, in Tulsa and you dropped BOMBS on us! When we built it in Rosewood and you came in and you SLAUGHTERED us! YOU broke the contract so FUCK your Target. FUCK your Hall of Fame. Far as I'm concerned they can burn this bitch to the ground.

And it still wouldn't be enough, and they are LUCKY that what Black people are looking for is equality and not revenge.