Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[starlord]

I think that regardless of whether or not he does it the Republicans are going to attach the label to him regardless and your efforts at not ruffling the feathers of white moderates will have ended up being for naught as you end up not getting any additional support while alienating your base.

Sounds about Democrat. The Third Way has basically become an exercise in pathological defeatism.

that's kind of a non answer.
surely he wouldn't want to be labeled as a white supremacist for not taking up this cause so close to his base's heart? white moderates be damned.

[Elegiac]

that's kind of a non answer.

I mean, you didn't address any of it so I'll continue to give further "non answers".

I've already said my piece earlier in the thread about why "Defund" is the term of choice, and it's because we don't trust you to do the right thing unless you are forced into it. If you are given "reform" you will do the absolute bare minimum, which is as good as nothing.

The issue is not the word. The issue is that we don't believe any word you say, and maybe you should be asking yourself why that is.

[Thelxi]

You literally said it’s too aggressive and can be taken too many ways, from a POLITICAL standpoint. What do you think that means?

I literally did not. What I did do, is simply note that it is aggressive wording, which feel free to disagree with lol, and I indeed said that it can be interpreted in too many ways. Pretty simple and clear stuff.

Now, what do I think your interpretation of my words means? Idk, maybe you are trying to stick up for someone you like on these forums? maybe your reading comprehension is also not great? maybe you are also eager to unleash a spiel about political correctness on a random person on the internet? really the only person that can answer that is you.

[starlord]

I mean, you didn't address any of it so I'll continue to give further "non answers".

I've already said my piece earlier in the thread about why "Defund" is the term of choice, and it's because we don't trust you to do the right thing unless you are forced into it. If you are given "reform" you will do the absolute bare minimum, which is as good as nothing.

The issue is not the word. The issue is that we don't believe any word you say, and maybe you should be asking yourself why that is.

who is "you"? do i suddenly speak for... whoever your enemy of choice is today?
idk seemed like a pretty straightforward question.
yes/no, and why. republicans will throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. thats what they always do.

[eschatological]

I'm all for defunding the police. I don't think it's a great political strategy to adopt, though, atm. All you need to do is look at the confusion it causes even in this thread of people who are far more informed than the general public.

There's a difference between policy and politics. It's why politicians literally divide their staff by policy wonks vs. political operatives.

Perhaps "rebuild the police" is the better turn of phrase. It implies the initial defunding, and makes clear the ultimate goal of defunding, which is to create a police department which is more invested in equity and justice. The main danger of "rebuild the police" is the actual politicians watering it down to, in practice, "reform" instead of "rebuild" the police. There is a massive need for for police departments to be torn down and rebuilt.....and mere reform won't accomplish it.

[Edge-]

Unrelated to the whole "defund" discussion which isn't really directly related to presidential elections...

https://www.businessinsider.com/new-...t-biden-2020-6

Researchers studying the massive protests catalyzed by the brutal death of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis police uncovered surprising findings on the 2020 race — unanimous support for former Vice President Joe Biden among protesters who responded when asked who they would vote for if the election were held tomorrow.

"I never have a survey question where every single person answers the same way," Dana Fisher, a University of Maryland sociologist who specializes in researching activism, told Insider. Fisher coordinated the study alongside University of Michigan political scientist Michael Heaney.

Sorta an expected outcome that protesters would be uniformly against Trump, but what's interesting is the uniform "Biden" answers rather than "neither".

Yes, small sample size (255), difficult to control demographics etc. but if this bears out and these protests are galvanizing people against Trump and for Biden (or whoever else would be the Democratic nominee), that's a good thing no matter what.

[starlord]

Unrelated to the whole "defund" discussion which isn't really directly related to presidential elections...

https://www.businessinsider.com/new-...t-biden-2020-6



Sorta an expected outcome that protesters would be uniformly against Trump, but what's interesting is the uniform "Biden" answers rather than "neither".

Yes, small sample size (255), difficult to control demographics etc. but if this bears out and these protests are galvanizing people against Trump and for Biden (or whoever else would be the Democratic nominee), that's a good thing no matter what.

probably due to biden showing his support for the protests.
conversely, he's losing support among police.

Support from law enforcement groups for Joe Biden is beginning to wither as the former vice president’s remarks about the protests that have erupted nationwide over the killing of George Floyd have convinced a number of police officers that he’s moving too far left, according to a report on Thursday.
Biden, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, has focused on police reform and oversight issues, creating the perception that he isn’t in solidarity with the police, who have been targeted in the violence that has erupted during some of the protests, Politico reported.

“Clearly, he’s made a lot of changes the way candidates do during the primary process, but he kept moving left and fell off the deep end,” Bill Johnson, executive director of the National Association of Police Organizations, the umbrella organization for Police Benevolent Association chapters, told Politico.
“For Joe Biden, police are shaking their heads because he used to be a stand-up guy who backed law enforcement,” he said. “But it seems in his old age, for whatever reason, he’s writing a sad final chapter when it comes to supporting law enforcement.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost....s-support/amp/
something something no fundamental change, white moderates.

[Sunseeker]

Except that it explicitly frickin' does.

You folks are seriously in the same territory as "black lives matter? I think all lives matter!" territory for missing the point.

You literally acknowledge that "defund the police" translates into "reduce police funding". Yes. You then start talking about why you would do so, and that's moving beyond the purpose of a slogan.

No, I quite literally did not. You on the other hand, quite literally acknowledged that it does meant "defunding the police to the point that they are no longer a thing" when you responded with:

That's a major component of what's being proposed, yes. And?

to this:

Defund: prevent from continuing to receive funds.

If that's not what you're proposing... stop using defund.

I had to do a substantial amount of legwork and asking people WTF they actually meant by it. And it's nowhere fucking close to "all lives matter". To top it off, SOME people who are shouting it are saying that we should completely eliminate the police as a thing.

Also, I'm a highly educated political scientist and at first I was confused. I mean, if you're gonna make a slogan that is confusing to the people who should be on the ball about this, you've got a bad slogan.

[Zan15]

Which is exactly why the Dems are still so inept at messaging.

Here's what people will remember:

Disband ICE
Defund the police
Open borders
Race based policing


Not saying those are all necessarily current Democratic views, but the attack ads write themselves. And if the economy continues to slowly but surely recover....then it's GG.

Ya they should just send messages like MAGA...which has no real meaning or details behind it!!!

Seems in this election all you need to do is scream out a bunch of usless slogans and run with it to get them to vote republican

[Endus]

Which is exactly why the Dems are still so inept at messaging.

Here's what people will remember:

Disband ICE
Defund the police
Open borders
Race based policing


Not saying those are all necessarily current Democratic views, but the attack ads write themselves. And if the economy continues to slowly but surely recover....then it's GG.

That empty fearmongering about delusional nonsense is so successful with Republican voters is not the winning argument you think; it's a condemnation of those so gullible as to fall for it.

[Thepersona]

Which is exactly why the Dems are still so inept at messaging.

Here's what people will remember:

Disband ICE
Defund the police
Open borders
Race based policing


Not saying those are all necessarily current Democratic views, but the attack ads write themselves. And if the economy continues to slowly but surely recover....then it's GG.

The economy is not recovering. The government is pumping billions of dollars just to stop part of the bleeding, while stockbrokers are gambling on riskier and riskier gambits.
And the second wave of covid is coming in 1-2 months. Enjoy it.

[Greyvax]

The economy is not recovering. The government is pumping billions of dollars just to stop part of the bleeding, while stockbrokers are gambling on riskier and riskier gambits.

Sure it is. The only reason people can see it still being down, is because of unemployment, but thats only due to said jobs being at a location closed down due to safety measures. Most everything will be re-opened within the next month or two.

And the second wave of covid is coming in 1-2 months. Enjoy it.

No its not.

[Machismo]

Sure it is. The only reason people can see it still being down, is because of unemployment, but thats only due to said jobs being at a location closed down due to safety measures. Most everything will be re-opened within the next month or two.



No its not.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...in-a-recession

I think people may be under the assumption that all will be right in a month or two, and that's simply not the case. You are going to see a surprising number of commercial space that never opens back up.

Let's not forget, the government pushed by far the biggest stimulus in history, so we will also have to deal with that monstrosity.

[Daelak]

Which is exactly why the Dems are still so inept at messaging.

Here's what people will remember:

Disband ICE
Defund the police
Open borders
Race based policing


Not saying those are all necessarily current Democratic views, but the attack ads write themselves. And if the economy continues to slowly but surely recover....then it's GG.

Yeah, with Biden within one point of being tied in Texas, I am sure you have no idea what you are talking about.

Your doing down that republicans supporters/voters are wholly deluded by conservative propaganda, an observation that has been known by people paying attention for centuries.

[Ghostpanther]

Which is exactly why the Dems are still so inept at messaging.

Here's what people will remember:

Disband ICE
Defund the police
Open borders
Race based policing


Not saying those are all necessarily current Democratic views, but the attack ads write themselves. And if the economy continues to slowly but surely recover....then it's GG.

With some established Democrat party members, this is not something new. And the economy will recover. Maybe not to the point it was before the corona virus hit, ( that will take until next year ) but it will be more robust by Nov then the Democratic party wants I think.

[Felya]

With some established Democrat party members, this is not something new. And the economy will recover. Maybe not to the point it was before the corona virus hit, ( that will take until next year ) but it will be more robust by Nov then the Democratic party wants I think.

Are you saying that unlike Trump, democrats won’t claim unemployment is up to 45%? Oh wait... I see Trump’s argument... now that Trump is president with double digit unemployment, it’s that democrats want 45% unemployment? Is that the plan?

[Machismo]

Yeah, with Biden within one point of being tied in Texas, I am sure you have no idea what you are talking about.

Your doing down that republicans supporters/voters are wholly deluded by conservative propaganda, an observation that has been known by people paying attention for centuries.

That poster also got caught lying about who he supports. It's all fake "concern" from a shill.

[Endus]

Are you saying that unlike Trump, democrats won’t claim unemployment is up to 45%? Oh wait... I see Trump’s argument... now that Trump is president with double digit unemployment, it’s that democrats want 45% unemployment? Is that the plan?

We should also point out that the one thing economies want most is stability.

See-sawing from highs to bottomless lows and then back to highs all within a single term? Opposite of stable. It's a boom-bust cycle unlike anything we've seen since before the Great Depression, because the measures put in place to prevent such usually aren't being handled by morons who do not understand economics.

Reaching that second high after this collapse is no indication that the economy won't collapse again. This isn't a "hiccup", it's an utter failure of economic policy. Pretty much anyone with more than a toddler's understanding of macroeconomics at the reins, and it wouldn't have been this bad. My evidence for that? Every other developed nation on the planet, which didn't crash as hard as the USA did.

[PfeffermintShake]

Polling in the shadow of Biden’s “10 to 15 percent of people are not good” gaffe.

Political Polls
@Politics_Polls
National GE:
Biden 49% (+8)
Trump 41%

Generic Congressional Ballot:
Democrats 47% (+8)
Republicans 39%


Pretty much as I expected. The bed wetters are wrong again.

[Edge-]

Didn't we learn last election that national polls, while likely reflective of the overall popular vote, aren't reflective of electoral college votes, and consequently of not a whole lot of value?