Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Noxx79]

I like liberal arts just fine, but framing $100K in debt for the sake of having a deep grasp of Renaissance sculpture as being something someone couldn't reasonably be expected to avoid in basically the same way as needing a heart stent is the kind of dopey shit that only an academic at heart could love.

Great. What about the doctors in debt?

[Draco-Onis]

Yes, that was a bad precedent. Is this supposed to be a gotcha? One of the critiques of bailouts is indeed that perverse incentives are implied by the federal government going forward. I've been pretty consistent in being concerned about that. For both corporate bailouts and student loan bailouts, if you're going to do it you need to do something to prevent that implicit perverse incentive. If we're going to do forgiveness, it needs to come with a massive reform to who's on the hook for future accumulated debt.

While I agree there needs to be standards and it shouldn't be blanketed there is no doubt it should be done, that is a different and more nuanced argument than what you were putting up before. I would support a program that would forgive loans for those qualified and reduce the interest to zero for the rest.

[Noxx79]

You're continuing to make the same mistake and it's getting dopey. Yes, do better than your ancestors going forward. No, don't reward your ancestors for bad behavior. People that made sacrifices to pay off loans should be in a better financial position going forward than people that did not pay their loans - the inverse outcome is perverse.

So parents who took on debt to made their children’s lives better should force their children to take on debt, because they did it too?

[Lenonis]

You are being picky when you understand exactly what I mean you wouldn't call Joe Manchin a democrat just because he is part of the party, having a D next to your name doesn't mean you are left wing. I think the problem is being a republican is rather meaningless at the moment since they have no values to speak of.

Yes, I know what you mean, however we're in an era where there is a real push to try to paint Biden and Trump as the same. I'm going to push back on that whereever I see it because it's so dangerous.

But yes -- especially in the Democratic party the party label doesn't automatically mean you support XYZ. The Republicans are much more lockstep with their ideology.

[Zaktar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqRNnIMDkUY

Straight from a guy that worked for them... I'd argue the simple answer is that the (voting) public is not educated enough and it keeps falling into this "at least our guy is not as bad as theirs" trap instead of actually picking someone that will actually represent their best interest (reform, healthcare, worker rights, etc.).

So the actor/TV writer and European are explaining to me that the problem is Americans are just too stupid. Shocked. I'm shocked I tell you.

Ignorance is a factor, as it is in any election worldwide. When I have to make voting decisions, my own ignorance scares the shit out of me. This doesn't make it the DNC's fault; they didn't set the conditions for that ignorance (I'd argue that industrialists 100ish years ago have more to do with American ignorance than anyone), and the voters still made the call. They had a lot of options on the table, many I wish they'd taken instead.

[TigTone]

-snip-

Biden would just be replaced by a competent VP vs trumps VP who spends most of his energy on his knees praying for change....

[TigTone]

Not to the spectacular degree it is in the US. You do not get the driveling idiocy of Trump supporters or the Maddow-inspired Democrat lunatics anywhere in London, Paris or Berlin. There are people with ugly, twisted views certainly but very few of them are just plain stupid.

Another big problem in the US was the spread of the propaganda of “votes don’t count” heard from adults and teens when I was growing up all in the 90s and early 2000s.

My older cousins heard the same all their youth in the 80s.

[Draco-Onis]

-snip-

Oh spare me you have Boris Johnson.

[JohnBrown1917]

Oh spare me you have Boris Johnson.

And a labour party that would rather have Boris(or May) win than have Corbyn get in power.

[cubby]

Oh spare me you have Boris Johnson.

Who's banned account do we think this is?

I love that everyone on the DNC side is coming out unanimously and soundly for Biden.

[Zaktar]

-snip-

I'm supposed to feel chastised by someone who can't even string together a coherent rant, and has extremely poor reading comprehension?

What's stupid is people who have no practical experience with the system here trying to tell locals why it is screwed up. You barely know how it works but you think because you see the highlight reel on BBC that you're a specialist in American politics. Your special insight that Trump and Biden are poor candidates was not required.

[cubby]

The continual slide to more Corporatism in the United States has been paved by "Well they are better than X", at both the state and federal level. There are 22 Million+ people on unemployment and that number will grow until we can properly test for this virus. A lot of people will still be unemployed come November and they will be looking for real solutions. The platitudes both sides seem to be spewing won't cut it.

Lol - more of the Trump supporter bullshit. Biden and the Democrats are the ONLY solution forward for this country. Trump is the cheap used car salesman con artist that people like you believe.

[JohnBrown1917]

The continual slide to more Corporatism in the United States has been paved by "Well they are better than X", at both the state and federal level. There are 22 Million+ people on unemployment and that number will grow until we can properly test for this virus. A lot of people will still be unemployed come November and they will be looking for real solutions. The platitudes both sides seem to be spewing won't cut it.

Even putting aside how much they suck up to big corporations, the biggest problem is how pro-war both of them are, and how much suffering they will cause in the world.

I'm betting that Biden will be worse than Obama on this, due to his history on the Iraq war.

[Zaktar]

-snip-

That's hilarious, vast knowledge and your first post was the best you could come up with. An angry non-sequitur expressing the most universal, basic opinion possible - one which I'd already included in the post you were replying to without actually reading. Which of the two books did you get that from? I mildly tease a poster for being European and you explode with rage while trying to explain how easily triggered Americans are. You're almost caught up to the conversation we were actually happening, which for reference was about whether the DNC or voters were more to blame for selecting Biden. The structure of the constitution and an argument for why it has some of its numerous flaws is an interesting discussion to have, but see if you can take the next step of connecting it to the conversation. It's close!

[ati87]

Even putting aside how much they suck up to big corporations, the biggest problem is how pro-war both of them are, and how much suffering they will cause in the world.

I'm betting that Biden will be worse than Obama on this, due to his history on the Iraq war.

Obama was kind of tame and only took action when other countries joined, in other words, when he had a broad coalition. Biden will be no different.
Republicans on the other hand alienate any kind of ally the US has.
Republicans as a whole are the cheerleaders of continues stupid war.

So not hard to see any difference.

[Zaktar]

-snip-

Oh no, the first post was the explosion with rage, though really they are all colored with anger. Do try to keep up.

I'm narcissistically fascinated by the argument that I'm a small minded racist, please PM me with support for that one (no one else cares). You're veering off course again though, we're supposed to be discussing the election, and in this particular exchange you foolishly inserted yourself into, we're talking specifically about apportionment of blame for poor candidates. If you can actually stick to the topic, I'll consider continuing to talk to you.

[JohnBrown1917]

Obama was kind of tame and only took action when other countries joined, in other words, when he had a broad coalition. Biden will be no different.
Republicans on the other hand alienate any kind of ally the US has.
Republicans as a whole are the cheerleaders of continues stupid war.

So not hard to see any difference.

So are the dems, Biden is one of the big names behind the Iraq war.
Only took action when other countries did? What a joke, that does not excuse all the drone strikes that kill tons of innocent people.

[ati87]

So are the dems, Biden is one of the big names behind the Iraq war.
Only took action when other countries did? What a joke, that does not excuse all the drone strikes that kill tons of innocent people.

No Bush was fully responsible any support after the war started is neither here nor there

And who is making an excuse regarding drone strikes? Can you please point out exactly where I said that the drone strikes where a good thing? I'm sure you would never try to put words in my mouth.

Again, unless you are dishonest there is a clear difference between Republicans and Democrats. Republicans have literately pushed us in a major conflict only just recently that could have created an crisis that would have made the fallout of Iraq war an joke.
The Democratic president on the other hand made an actually deal that worked.

[Draco-Onis]

-snip-

You mean the guy who advocated for herd immunity, was shaking hands with COVID patient and got it while his wife is pregnant isn't stupid? he also did jack shit to get the UK ready for the virus only Trump handled this worse than him.

[JohnBrown1917]

No Bush was fully responsible any support after the war started is neither here nor there

Oh, if only it was so easy to just put it all on 1 scapegoat.
Sorry, but that does not stop Biden's involvement in it.


https://theintercept.com/2020/01/07/...q-war-history/

And who is making an excuse regarding drone strikes? Can you please point out exactly where I said that the drone strikes where a good thing? I'm sure you would never try to put words in my mouth.

The drone strikes are a big part of the problem.

Again, unless you are dishonest there is a clear difference between Republicans and Democrats. Republicans have literately pushed us in a major conflict only just recently that could have created an crisis that would have made the fallout of Iraq war an joke.
The Democratic president on the other hand made an actually deal that worked.

The same president that destroyed Libya? That one?