1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by CommunismWillWin View Post
    Oh, if only it was so easy to just put it all on 1 scapegoat.
    Sorry, but that does not stop Biden's involvement in it.


    https://theintercept.com/2020/01/07/...q-war-history/

    The drone strikes are a big part of the problem.


    The same president that destroyed Libya? That one?
    Libya was getting destroyed because of a civil war.

  2. #642
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    If you want to push for deep systemic change in the DNC, the time for that starts in 2021, aiming at 2024. It's too late, now, because Biden's the candidate; the push for progressivism has already failed to gain ground this election. Bernie isn't the candidate not because there's some grand kleptocorporate bureaucratic conspiracy going on, but because Bernie Sanders does not inspire the kind of confidence and support you wish he did. So Democratic voters are going with the "safe" option, because Sanders didn't speak to their interests and concerns.

    I'm not gonna suggest you have to like this, but Bernie lost because Bernie was a worse candidate, and campaigned more poorly. Nothing more. America's just not that into Bernie Sanders.

    And if you're pulling "Biden's as bad as Trump", then I'm gonna clearly state that you're posting here to disrupt and misinform, not to engage in good faith discussion. There is no planet where they're equally bad. Speaking as someone who's always thought Biden was a greasy empty suit.


  3. #643
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    Biden is better than trump. Orders of magnitude better. He may not be better than Warren or Sanders, but even a turd is better than the orange in chief.
    being better than something isn't a reason for me to vote for them. i have higher standards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Who's banned account do we think this is?

    I love that everyone on the DNC side is coming out unanimously and soundly for Biden.
    its not surprising. they want political favors. one hand washes the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Lol - more of the Trump supporter bullshit. Biden and the Democrats are the ONLY solution forward for this country. Trump is the cheap used car salesman con artist that people like you believe.
    oh yes because anyone who doesn't support biden is a trump supporter obviously. you USED to be a REASONABLE poster. now you just went the same way as skroe. completely off the rails bananas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If you want to push for deep systemic change in the DNC, the time for that starts in 2021, aiming at 2024. It's too late, now, because Biden's the candidate; the push for progressivism has already failed to gain ground this election. Bernie isn't the candidate not because there's some grand kleptocorporate bureaucratic conspiracy going on, but because Bernie Sanders does not inspire the kind of confidence and support you wish he did. So Democratic voters are going with the "safe" option, because Sanders didn't speak to their interests and concerns.

    I'm not gonna suggest you have to like this, but Bernie lost because Bernie was a worse candidate, and campaigned more poorly. Nothing more. America's just not that into Bernie Sanders.
    also i think the uncertainty from both covid 19 and initially the fact that bernie lost the 2016 primary in what was a pretty shady set of circumstances lead a lot of voters to go with the "safe" option that they feel would be more likely to win rather than the one they actually wanted to avoid another trump win. i don't blame them for that that is their choice.
    r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
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  4. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post

    And if you're pulling "Biden's as bad as Trump", then I'm gonna clearly state that you're posting here to disrupt and misinform, not to engage in good faith discussion. There is no planet where they're equally bad. Speaking as someone who's always thought Biden was a greasy empty suit.
    Yeah but that seems to be the only good thing anyone has to say about Biden. He's not as bad as Trump! I just find it astonishing that he is the guy the dems chose.

  5. #645
    Banned cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    oh yes because anyone who doesn't support biden is a trump supporter obviously. you USED to be a REASONABLE poster. now you just went the same way as skroe. completely off the rails bananas.
    That's actually NOT what I said. But it's adorable that you think that's what I meant. Hit the Wiki for a few minutes, learn the difference between voting for someone and supporting someone, and then come back to the adult table.

    Comparing my posts and analysis to Skroe is a compliment - thank you - the fact that you don't understand that is just more evidence of the deep pool of ignorance you swim within.

  6. #646
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    Yeah but that seems to be the only good thing anyone has to say about Biden. He's not as bad as Trump! I just find it astonishing that he is the guy the dems chose.
    That's just how conservatives are framing it who want a reason not to vote for Trump. There is plenty of good shit to like about Biden. He's not Trump is the cherry on top.

  7. #647
    Banned cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    Yeah but that seems to be the only good thing anyone has to say about Biden. He's not as bad as Trump! I just find it astonishing that he is the guy the dems chose.
    At the end of the day, all that matters is that Biden gets your vote. He's light years better than Trump, and has the competence to start righting the ship:
    • Executive Branch revived. Bring State Department back online. Get actual experts in the field to head up the Departments.
    • Truth and Reconciliation Committee - headed by Senator (Majority Leader?) Warren and Pelosi - to root out Trump's crimes and corruption.
    • Carry the country through this COVID-19 storm. Even if you don't think he has the capacity to do it himself, we know that he can appoint good people to do it for him.
    • Sign anything Pelosi and Warren put in front of him.
    • Start the repairs on our international image.

    Regardless of who was chosen by the Democratic voters, he's the guy we MUST back. Even if you don't like him, we have to vote for him.

  8. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    At the end of the day, all that matters is that Biden gets your vote. He's light years better than Trump, and has the competence to start righting the ship:
    • Executive Branch revived. Bring State Department back online. Get actual experts in the field to head up the Departments.
    • Truth and Reconciliation Committee - headed by Senator (Majority Leader?) Warren and Pelosi - to root out Trump's crimes and corruption.
    • Carry the country through this COVID-19 storm. Even if you don't think he has the capacity to do it himself, we know that he can appoint good people to do it for him.
    • Sign anything Pelosi and Warren put in front of him.
    • Start the repairs on our international image.

    Regardless of who was chosen by the Democratic voters, he's the guy we MUST back. Even if you don't like him, we have to vote for him.
    Start the healthcare reform with health deputy Sanders would be great though.
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  9. #649
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    There is is the same BS i heard in 2010 an onward and being told not to be critical of Obama because it wasn't the time.. It's magically never the time.

    That is until we have the lesser of two evils scenario in 2024. If the choice is between perhaps Pence vs Bloomberg? I expect the same disdain from people who think not voting is equivalent to a vote for the candidate you don't like.
    Dem vs GoP has been about picking the lesser evil for ages, its just what happens in a 2 party system. Anybody that makes it past the GoP primary will be equally as horrible as Trump. Has everybody forgotten about Bush? That they put up McCain?
    Last edited by JohnBrown1917; 2020-04-16 at 10:40 PM.

  10. #650
    The Democrats are going to swap out Biden.

    Somehow, someway, they'll find a way to swap him out. My bet's still on Cuomo.

    His political record is SO BAD that he'll get shredded. And the elephant in the room is always that he's CLEARLY mentally deteriorating infront of our eyes. He's going senile, and he's going quick. If you compare videos of him now to even a few years ago the difference is staggering.

    He CAN'T debate Trump live. Trump will eat him alive.

    He couldn't even do a friendly chat with Bernie without having to clearly be reading from auto-cue.. FOR A CONVERSATION with his ally. The Democrats can work with the MSM to put it off as much as they can but sooner or later he'll have to debate Trump live, and if he's still deteriorating even more in November he'll get destroyed so badly it will be cruel to watch.

    They all know this. They can't let him run. Something will happen...
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  11. #651
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    The Democrats are going to swap out Biden.
    Somehow, someway, they'll find a way to swap him out. My bet's still on Cuomo.
    If I could, I'd take that bet.

  12. #652
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    The Democrats are going to swap out Biden.

    Somehow, someway, they'll find a way to swap him out. My bet's still on Cuomo.

    His political record is SO BAD that he'll get shredded. And the elephant in the room is always that he's CLEARLY mentally deteriorating infront of our eyes. He's going senile, and he's going quick. If you compare videos of him now to even a few years ago the difference is staggering.

    He CAN'T debate Trump live. Trump will eat him alive.

    He couldn't even do a friendly chat with Bernie without having to clearly be reading from auto-cue.. FOR A CONVERSATION with his ally. The Democrats can work with the MSM to put it off as much as they can but sooner or later he'll have to debate Trump live, and if he's still deteriorating even more in November he'll get destroyed so badly it will be cruel to watch.

    They all know this. They can't let him run. Something will happen...
    Is this really the conspiracy theory you guys are pushing?

    Trump is listed as one of the WORST presidents in history... by actual historians. He's not a good debater, and Biden's actually pretty decent.

    You Trumpsters are adorable.

  13. #653
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    The Democrats are going to swap out Biden.

    Somehow, someway, they'll find a way to swap him out. My bet's still on Cuomo.

    His political record is SO BAD that he'll get shredded. And the elephant in the room is always that he's CLEARLY mentally deteriorating infront of our eyes. He's going senile, and he's going quick. If you compare videos of him now to even a few years ago the difference is staggering.

    He CAN'T debate Trump live. Trump will eat him alive.

    He couldn't even do a friendly chat with Bernie without having to clearly be reading from auto-cue.. FOR A CONVERSATION with his ally. The Democrats can work with the MSM to put it off as much as they can but sooner or later he'll have to debate Trump live, and if he's still deteriorating even more in November he'll get destroyed so badly it will be cruel to watch.

    They all know this. They can't let him run. Something will happen...
    Exactly like how Bernie ate him alive.

    Wait, at the very best for Bernie it was a draw, at the worst Bernie got nothing done while Biden instilled confidence among those who were worried about his performance.... was it because Bernie is horrible at debating, because he doesn't care enough about his cause to fight for it, or because Biden isn't close to as bad off as all these empathetic concerned citizens who only want what's best for him think he is?

  14. #654
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    He CAN'T debate Trump live. Trump will eat him alive.
    Have you seen Trump debate? He is an incompetent baboon... Biden can fall asleep half way through and Trump will start talking about the hidden wealthy people supporting him... like he did vs Hillary... Trump digs his own grave during the debates, his support just doesn’t care...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  15. #655
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    There is is the same BS i heard in 2010 an onward and being told not to be critical of Obama because it wasn't the time.. It's magically never the time.

    That is until we have the lesser of two evils scenario in 2024. If the choice is between perhaps Pence vs Bloomberg? I expect the same disdain from people who think not voting is equivalent to a vote for the candidate you don't like.
    Every cycle it's 'fight for change the next cycle'. Then pundits be like "why can't we get people to come out to the pools???"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Have you seen Trump debate? He is an incompetent baboon... Biden can fall asleep half way through and Trump will start talking about the hidden wealthy people supporting him... like he did vs Hillary... Trump digs his own grave during the debates, his support just doesn’t care...
    Trump couldn't actually debate a two year old. Trump also made a name for himself during debates. If ones scholarly performance actually matured we'd be looking at a very different election.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CommunismWillWin View Post
    So are the dems, Biden is one of the big names behind the Iraq war.
    Only took action when other countries did? What a joke, that does not excuse all the drone strikes that kill tons of innocent people.
    But Biden did it to compromise and cross party lines!

    Why are both candidates so often on the wrong side of history?

  16. #656
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Have you seen Trump debate? He is an incompetent baboon... Biden can fall asleep half way through and Trump will start talking about the hidden wealthy people supporting him... like he did vs Hillary... Trump digs his own grave during the debates, his support just doesn’t care...
    It's funny that in a way this election might come down to which candidate more people think is senile. At least Biden's gaffes are generally harmlessly weird and don't involve hitting on his children. Also he has a valid, longstanding excuse. Trump's best excuse is affluenza.

  17. #657
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Why are both candidates so often on the wrong side of history?
    Because hindsight is 20/20... no blames the public for overwhelming support for the war. Nor is anyone crying for people who had their political careers ruined, due to not supporting the war. We just get to act indignant and pretend it wasn’t fear of retaliation from the public, that lead them to support the war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    It's funny that in a way this election might come down to which candidate more people think is senile. At least Biden's gaffes are generally harmlessly weird and don't involve hitting on his children. Also he has a valid, longstanding excuse. Trump's best excuse is affluenza.
    It is funny, but in reality, the election will come down to voter turn out. If a couple more percent of the public votes, the odds swing to Biden. The fewer people vote, the more likely Trump wins.

    Edit: I know that this part has all, but been removed from the story of 9/11 and US reaction to it... but, the public was blood thirsty. I bet at the hight, if people were set to vote to permit quartering of terrorists in time square, it would have overwhelmingly passed. The shit Trump does now with Taliban and Saudi Arabia, would have him shot out of a cannon by GOP... he would have been strapped to the first bomb dropped on Iraq.
    Last edited by Felya; 2020-04-17 at 12:00 AM.
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  18. #658
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Because hindsight is 20/20... no blames the public for overwhelming support for the war. Nor is anyone crying for people who had their political careers ruined, due to not supporting the war. We just get to act indignant and pretend it wasn’t fear of retaliation from the public, that lead them to support the war.
    That's not good enough. It's okay for the general public to buy into fear. We're talking about a bunch of lay people with limited perspectives/resources whose jobs aren't to be responsible for the lives of hundreds of millions of people. To make well informed and well educated decisions, especially when it comes to something as serious as war.

    The appropriate thing for Biden would to point out how he learned from his mistakes, not to make excuses for them. He is job is to show the voter that he would do something stupid like drag us into another forever war, more now than ever.

    "Returning to 2015“ is just going to give us 2015 problems, many of the same problems with still have today. Multiple economic bubbles ready to burst. A very broken healthcare system. Stagnant wages, poor social infrastructure, and a looming climate crisis. Can a man whose entire career has been making deals with devils or getting out of their way be trusted. Hell, I don't even know which candidate that last sentence applies to.

  19. #659
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    That's not good enough. It's okay for the general public to buy into fear. We're talking about a bunch of lay people with limited perspectives/resources whose jobs aren't to be responsible for the lives of hundreds of millions of people. To make well informed and well educated decisions, especially when it comes to something as serious as war.

    The appropriate thing for Biden would to point out how he learned from his mistakes, not to make excuses for them. He is job is to show the voter that he would do something stupid like drag us into another forever war, more now than ever.

    "Returning to 2015“ is just going to give us 2015 problems, many of the same problems with still have today. Multiple economic bubbles ready to burst. A very broken healthcare system. Stagnant wages, poor social infrastructure, and a looming climate crisis. Can a man whose entire career has been making deals with devils or getting out of their way be trusted. Hell, I don't even know which candidate that last sentence applies to.
    You don't have a career in politics without either sitting off to the side not contributing, or compromising to move the needle more in your direction than it was before. It's just how politics is.

    Also, 2015 is looking really, really good right now, all things considered. Not to mention the bull market really took off in early-mid 2017, so the multiple economic bubbles about to burst doesn't quite follow for the time frame you're representing.

  20. #660
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    That's not good enough. It's okay for the general public to buy into fear. We're talking about a bunch of lay people with limited perspectives/resources whose jobs aren't to be responsible for the lives of hundreds of millions of people. To make well informed and well educated decisions, especially when it comes to something as serious as war.
    While their life long careers depend on support of these people. I doubt we would know who Biden is, if he didn’t vote to support the war. He would have been black listed, before the tide turned against the war. I don’t think you remember the severity of it, but everyone against the war was branded anti American and ran out of Washington... look at what they did to a mother of dead soldier:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cindy_Sheehan

    The appropriate thing for Biden would to point out how he learned from his mistakes, not to make excuses for them. He is job is to show the voter that he would do something stupid like drag us into another forever war, more now than ever.
    He devoted an entire chapter of his book to calling it a mistake:
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/17/polit...ile/index.html

    "Returning to 2015“ is just going to give us 2015 problems, many of the same problems with still have today. Multiple economic bubbles ready to burst. A very broken healthcare system. Stagnant wages, poor social infrastructure, and a looming climate crisis. Can a man whose entire career has been making deals with devils or getting out of their way be trusted. Hell, I don't even know which candidate that last sentence applies to.
    Depends on the context... most of the stuff I want to return to, is farther back than that. From glass steagal economically to patriot act judicially, it didn’t start in 2015...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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