Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Machismo]

I think what we should focus on over the next few months, is how motivated voters are. I'm not so concerned about how enthusiastic they are for Biden and Trump, but how angry, determined, and resolute they are to get to the polls on Election Day. I think there's far more motivation on the side of the Democrats, than there is actual enthusiasm for Biden.

On the flip side of that, Trump's cultists are very enthusiastic about their fuhrer, but I don't see as much determination. This seems especially true with the moderate Republicans, who just aren't stepping up to bat for Trump like they used to.

As for the independents, I expect to see high voter turnout, and that will likely be bad for Trump.

In the end, I think the Democrats understand they have far more to lose in all of this.

[Endus]

I think what we should focus on over the next few months, is how motivated voters are.

This is, ultimately, what the "both sides are bad!" trolls are exploiting. They're trying to convince Democratic voters to stay home, so that Trump can win in 2020, because if Democrats stay energized, it's gonna be a landslide against Trump.

They have no other points. Every single "Biden is as bad as Trump" poster is pushing for a Trump victory in 2020. By encouraging Democrats to stay home.

After all, it worked in 2016.

[Shadowferal]

I think what we should focus on over the next few months, is how motivated voters are

Good call.
Low voter registration poses a threat to American democracy

[Scyclone]

I had a Bernie Bro on my timeline tweet this in horror, because Kasich is anti-abortion. This is the tweet he was quoting: https://twitter.com/jordanzakarin/st...24252908752899

"John Kasich is going to speak at the DNC, Democrats are fawning at the war criminals running @ProjectLincoln, and I’m beginning to get concerned that Condi Rice is going to be Biden’s VP pick."

He ended his tweet by saying: "But yes, continue to yell at me about not supporting Joe Biden leading up to this election."

Not that I would ever consider voting for Trumplestiltzken as a republican anyway, but I'll DEFINITELY vote Biden if he brings Condi on board.

[Milchshake]

I had a Bernie Bro on my timeline tweet this in horror, because Kasich is anti-abortion. This is the tweet he was quoting: https://twitter.com/jordanzakarin/st...24252908752899

"John Kasich is going to speak at the DNC, Democrats are fawning at the war criminals running @ProjectLincoln, and I’m beginning to get concerned that Condi Rice is going to be Biden’s VP pick."

He ended his tweet by saying: "But yes, continue to yell at me about not supporting Joe Biden leading up to this election."

They're also being incredibly silent on the passing of John Lewis. I still remember the Bros booing him in 2016.

[Felya]

Or ... it could just be that they're pointing out that Biden is a pretty horrible presidential candidate too.

Nope... next to Trump, Biden is a saint... sorry... bitch to me about his criminal justice reform, as storm troopers are attacking protestors in Portland.

[Thekri]

Or ... it could just be that they're pointing out that Biden is a pretty horrible presidential candidate too.

His track record (the only thing that matters if you wish to take a scientific approach to voting) is purely conservative, sadly enough.

And while it might be better to vote Biden, it still doesn't change the fact that this is the horrible choice voters get presented with... and then they wonder why people are losing their faith in democracy and/or distance themselves from voting.

Yes we know. You have made your point. If your house was on fire, you would probably get into an arguement with the firefighter that went in to rescue you, arguing that the house shouldn't be on fire, and what a terrible state of affairs it was.

"Well it might be preferable to leave this burning building rather then staying, it doesn't change the fact the building shouldn't be on fire, and I shouldn't have to leave"

Well no kidding. But reality doesn't care, reality is what it is, and we deal with the situation we have.

[Felya]

Well no kidding. But reality doesn't care, reality is what it is, and we deal with the situation we have.

It’s worse when you consider:

Biden-Sanders unity task forces release proposals to overhaul criminal justice, immigration
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...te/5401048002/

Most of all, instead arguing that Biden is like a gateway for conservatives to support progressive issues, it’s dig in your heels tribalism. Can’t support Biden, he seems too much like that conservative tribe...

[cubby]

Apparently John Kasich--AKA one of the few tolerable GOP candidates from 2016--is going to be speaking at the Democratic National Convention in favor of Biden next month. There are so many rats leaving that sinking ship there can't be much of a structure even holding that ship together at this point.

That is VERY interesting. Could be the path back on the long trail to party's working together and healing the country.

[cubby]

I had a Bernie Bro on my timeline tweet this in horror, because Kasich is anti-abortion. This is the tweet he was quoting: https://twitter.com/jordanzakarin/st...24252908752899

"John Kasich is going to speak at the DNC, Democrats are fawning at the war criminals running @ProjectLincoln, and I’m beginning to get concerned that Condi Rice is going to be Biden’s VP pick."

He ended his tweet by saying: "But yes, continue to yell at me about not supporting Joe Biden leading up to this election."

Even I know not to support Condi for Biden's VP pick, even if she is awesome overall (don't hate me).

War criminals are Lincoln Project? Holy fuck - that tweet if fucked up. People need to remember that even some democrats are anti-abortion.

[Thekri]

Sure, I get that, but people shouldn't really act all surprised when a good part of the population might feel that Biden and Trump are too alike.

I despise Trump, he is the quick highway to fascism and erosion of all sorts of good principles of a modern western society.

Biden is better, but his track record, is just a slower slide down that same end goal of fascism.

Maybe there is just no escaping the end goal...

So do what I am going to do. Vote Biden, urge people to vote Biden, then if he is elected, criticize him relentlessly for the next 4 years for all the decisions he makes that I don't like. That is what democracy is. It isn't the right to always get your perfect candidate in office, it is about compromise with the majority to get something we can all live with and tolerate. You are still perfectly allowed to have your own goals and agendas, and express your opinions about them freely.

Unless you get drug into an unmarked van by non-specific law enforcement. In which case you might want to reflect on where taking hard line tribalist positions has gotten us so far.

[Edge-]

Sure, I get that, but people shouldn't really act all surprised when a good part of the population might feel that Biden and Trump are too alike.

Then I'd say that they're not paying much attention. They are far more unlike than they are alike.

Biden is better, but his track record, is just a slower slide down that same end goal of fascism

What in his record, especially this millenia, speaks to fascism? He didn't actually write the Patriot Act, only the 1994 crime bill that he's rightly been criticized quite a bit about and has clearly moved to a more progressive position on since.

And if we want to go with an analogy it would be: "From the fire into the frying pan."

No, from a burning house on fire into the street with no home but hopes of rebuilding it better. That's where we're at now.

[cubby]

It doesn’t even make sense... Biden put out a plan with Bernie just last week and this week he has a Republican supporting him. It seems to me that Biden is trying to reach out to all sorts, while tribalist are digging in their heels, demanding tribal purity.

That's how I read it too - Biden building consensus and support on both sides, is how we do it RIGHT.

Something for everyone to consider, in order for the GOP to walk away from Trump, they need a place to walk towards. Biden could be that person. He spent 40 years building consensus and working with everyone to get shit done. The ultimate irony is that a total insider might be just the cure to a toxic and insane "outsider".

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Not that I would ever consider voting for Trumplestiltzken as a republican anyway, but I'll DEFINITELY vote Biden if he brings Condi on board.

You need to vote for Biden even if the Cookie Monster is his VP pick. Condi might come on board somewhere, and I'm a big fan of hers, but her social policies are too far right...Biden is the moderate, the VP pick will be someone from the left.

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Or ... it could just be that they're pointing out that Biden is a pretty horrible presidential candidate too.

His track record (the only thing that matters if you wish to take a scientific approach to voting) is purely conservative, sadly enough.

And while it might be better to vote Biden, it still doesn't change the fact that this is the horrible choice voters get presented with... and then they wonder why people are losing their faith in democracy and/or distance themselves from voting.

God it's adorable how much you shrill for Trump - you charlatans need to try MUCH harder to make any headway. Biden is a terrific candidate for what we need right now. You saying he's "almost as bad as Trump" just shows that you're a clown in sheeps clothing.

[Endus]

Or ... it could just be that they're pointing out that Biden is a pretty horrible presidential candidate too.

His track record (the only thing that matters if you wish to take a scientific approach to voting) is purely conservative, sadly enough.

And while it might be better to vote Biden, it still doesn't change the fact that this is the horrible choice voters get presented with... and then they wonder why people are losing their faith in democracy and/or distance themselves from voting.

Voters are not "presented" with this choice.

This is the voters' choice. Biden was selected through a primary election.

And again; if you are in any way suggesting that "both sides are bad", you're trying to demoralize Democratic voters into not voting, and hoping for a Trump victory. I don't care how left-wing you claim to be, that's what you're pushing for. I guess you could argue that you're so completely unaware of political realities that you don't understand basic principles, but honestly, that seems worse.

Biden wouldn't have been my first pick in the primary, but in a general? Easy damn choice. And "not voting" isn't really an option, if you give any kind of shits about politics at all.

[Antiganon]

That's how I read it too - Biden building consensus and support on both sides, is how we do it RIGHT.

Something for everyone to consider, in order for the GOP to walk away from Trump, they need a place to walk towards. Biden could be that person. He spent 40 years building consensus and working with everyone to get shit done. The ultimate irony is that a total insider might be just the cure to a toxic and insane "outsider".

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You need to vote for Biden even if the Cookie Monster is his VP pick. Condi might come on board somewhere, and I'm a big fan of hers, but her social policies are too far right...Biden is the moderate, the VP pick will be someone from the left.

I don't really have any interest in making common cause with Republicans at this point.

The entire party has supported a law breaking tyrant for the last 4 years. Even absent Trump, their entire policy platform is based on eliminating anything considered socially objectionable by the religious right (such as trans people existing, gay people getting married and having the same rights as straight people, abortion, etc), anything that might reduce economic inequality, anything that might expand education, and anything that might help the average person stay alive without becoming destitute.

In my view, Democrats need to take (and hold) ALL the levers of power, then drag the aging GOP base into the 21st century kicking and screaming.

Our children (and theirs) will thank us later when they can afford to go to college, have a family, and own a house, all without holding down 3 jobs and while living on a planet that remains habitable by humans for more than the next 20 years.

[cubby]

I don't really have any interest in making common cause with Republicans at this point.

The entire party has supported a law breaking tyrant for the last 4 years. Even absent Trump, their entire policy platform is based on eliminating anything considered socially objectionable by the religious right (such as trans people existing, gay people getting married and having the same rights as straight people, abortion, etc), anything that might reduce economic inequality, anything that might expand education, and anything that might help the average person stay alive without becoming destitute.

In my view, Democrats need to take (and hold) ALL the levers of power, then drag the aging GOP base into the 21st century kicking and screaming.

Our children (and theirs) will thank us later when they can afford to go to college, have a family, and own a house, all without holding down 3 jobs and while living on a planet that remains habitable by humans for more than the next 20 years.

I agree that bringing Republicans into the fold right now is not a good idea, HOWEVER, at the same time letting them wallow without some kind of leadership is just waiting for them to find another fascist to follow. An absence of any leadership will be bad for everyone.

That being said...

The Democrats, if they can get Biden in and flip the Senate, need to go full bore nuclear on all legislation. Drag, as you said, the aging GOP into the 21st century.

[Endus]

That's how I read it too - Biden building consensus and support on both sides, is how we do it RIGHT.

Something for everyone to consider, in order for the GOP to walk away from Trump, they need a place to walk towards. Biden could be that person. He spent 40 years building consensus and working with everyone to get shit done. The ultimate irony is that a total insider might be just the cure to a toxic and insane "outsider".

I'm gonna hard disagree, here, with some context.

If Republican representatives are willing to admit error and work to bring their views and platform back to the center-right by an objective external measure, rather than the far-right they currently stand for, then we can have some discussions about cooperation and consensus.

Their current radicalization makes that impossible. It's like telling a guy to stop beating his wife. And he seeks compromise; can we agree that he gets to beat his wife only on weekends? You can't compromise with that kind of shit. They need to stop beating their wife. Hard stop. If they won't agree, then we need to wield every legislative weapon we have to force them into compliance.

For the sake of his wife.

I don't see the GOP doing this. I can see some current GOP representatives doing it, but the GOP itself is, I presume, about to head the same direction as the Whig Party; collapsing and becoming a non-element in national elections. Some new, less extremist right-wing party will emerge to fill that void, likely spearheaded by those few ex-GOP members willing to play ball with the Democrats.

If they're not willing to reform or allow a new party to emerge? Compromise cannot be accepted, not when that middle ground is itself extremist in nature. There's a term for that kind of seeking of "compromise"; appeasement. And its historical legacy is not laudable.

[Machismo]

Good call.
Low voter registration poses a threat to American democracy

This pandemic will certainly make it more difficult for people to vote. It's a shame the GOP wants to suppress voters.

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This is, ultimately, what the "both sides are bad!" trolls are exploiting. They're trying to convince Democratic voters to stay home, so that Trump can win in 2020, because if Democrats stay energized, it's gonna be a landslide against Trump.

They have no other points. Every single "Biden is as bad as Trump" poster is pushing for a Trump victory in 2020. By encouraging Democrats to stay home.

After all, it worked in 2016.

I think one thing people keep wrongfully harping on, is the low enthusiasm for Biden. This election was never going to be about how much people liked Biden, it's always been about how sick and tired people are of Trump.

That false narrative has long been pushed by the fake Bernie supporters and Trumpster concern trolls... especially on sites like this.

[cubby]

I'm gonna hard disagree, here, with some context.

If Republican representatives are willing to admit error and work to bring their views and platform back to the center-right by an objective external measure, rather than the far-right they currently stand for, then we can have some discussions about cooperation and consensus.

Their current radicalization makes that impossible. It's like telling a guy to stop beating his wife. And he seeks compromise; can we agree that he gets to beat his wife only on weekends? You can't compromise with that kind of shit. They need to stop beating their wife. Hard stop. If they won't agree, then we need to wield every legislative weapon we have to force them into compliance.

For the sake of his wife.

I don't see the GOP doing this. I can see some current GOP representatives doing it, but the GOP itself is, I presume, about to head the same direction as the Whig Party; collapsing and becoming a non-element in national elections. Some new, less extremist right-wing party will emerge to fill that void, likely spearheaded by those few ex-GOP members willing to play ball with the Democrats.

If they're not willing to reform or allow a new party to emerge? Compromise cannot be accepted, not when that middle ground is itself extremist in nature. There's a term for that kind of seeking of "compromise"; appeasement. And its historical legacy is not laudable.

I hear you saying that you're disagreeing, but as I'm reading your response, I'm nodding my head. I agree with what you're saying - membership in the "consensus party" isn't open without contrition and some obvious "I'm ready to change and open to new information".

But if they are willing to do that, we almost need to open that dialogue, because on the long term front, we need them to help heal the country.

[Antiganon]

I agree that bringing Republicans into the fold right now is not a good idea, HOWEVER, at the same time letting them wallow without some kind of leadership is just waiting for them to find another fascist to follow. An absence of any leadership will be bad for everyone.

That being said...

The Democrats, if they can get Biden in and flip the Senate, need to go full bore nuclear on all legislation. Drag, as you said, the aging GOP into the 21st century.

I agree on the solution, and have grown far more willing to see legislative nuclear options used than I was in say 2014.

I'd be 100% fine with the Senate abolishing the filibuster entirely, passing all the key policy planks of the Sanders wing of the party, with some concessions to the Biden wing of the party (and absolutely ZERO "bipartisanship" like we saw with ACA conference committees, where GOP amendments were taken up, weakened the bill, and the GOP still opposed it 100% even after getting almost everything they wanted), then reinstating the filibuster for legislation, judicial nominees, and SCOTUS nominees, with a 60 vote threshold to change the rules again in the future, before the term is up.

If you asked me in 2014 I would have said that kind of political gamesmanship is bad for the country overall and reduces public confidence in our most critical institutions.

Today I say it is a necessary corrective action to right the ship and delaying past Day 1 of the 2021 legislative session would be a grave error.

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I hear you saying that you're disagreeing, but as I'm reading your response, I'm nodding my head. I agree with what you're saying - membership in the "consensus party" isn't open without contrition and some obvious "I'm ready to change and open to new information".

But if they are willing to do that, we almost need to open that dialogue, because on the long term front, we need them to help heal the country.

How did that dialogue go in 2010, when Democratic supermajorities in both House and Senate accepted hundreds of GOP amendments to the ACA? Note that absent those amendments, we would already have "Medicare for all who want it" as the law of the land.

How did that dialogue go in 2016, when McConnell held a SCOTUS seat open for 11 months without even holding hearings on Garland, a milquetoast moderate if ever I've seen one?

How did that dialogue go in 2019, when Republicans refused to review any evidence or testimony beyond what the House had already done before voting to acquit?

How did that dialogue go in 2020, when Republicans refused to eliminate or even consider eliminating controversial PATRIOT Act provisions from the NDAA when it was up for renewal?

How is that dialogue going right now, when Democrats want to extend Federal unemployment benefits for the 20% of Americans on unemployment, and the GOP wants to tell everyone to grab their bootstraps and get back to work?