Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[JohnBrown1917]

I'm surprised. I thought their nonsense was easily-identifiable regardless of whatever cosplay they're wearing at the time.

It's not surprising, however, that most of the vocal opponents of voting for Biden over Trump are non-Americans just enjoying stirring up shit constantly in this thread, though.

But this is About Harris, not Biden. can't you guys even kee up with that? I though the US justice system was in a bad place, now you suddenly like it?

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You'll notice I didn't defend anything there

Then what is the problem with calling out Harris for her shitty past?

[Felya]

But this is About Harris, not Biden. can't you guys even kee up with that? I though the US justice system was in a bad place, now you suddenly like it?

Nice dichotomy bro... If someone disagrees with you for any reason, they instantly like US justice system. After all... you are the real victim here...

Then what is the problem with calling out Harris for her shitty past?

As an attempt to keep a black woman from being VP? From someone who has as much experience with US justice system, as Trump does having a middle class job? Let me think on that one...

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Just like the police are claiming they're doing right now in the USA?

You mean the ones Trump sent out?

Or ICE ?

It wasn’t... until people elected Trump.

Come on, there must be someone better you can appoint rather than trying to stir the beehive and upsetting the black community by appointing someone who has been the champion of enforcing anti-black laws and legislation in court her entire life?

By electing someone that experienced being black in America? Sounds like you are trying to stir shit up... while not being black... nor American...

Don't you think BLM is going to have a field day protesting against her and Biden if she becomes the VP pick?

No... because they will be protesting the guy that enacted the laws you just complained about. As the BLM activist you claimed to be, how are you protesting a black woman, instead of Trump?

Edit: Attacking Harris, based on laws Trump enacted... stay classy...

[cubby]

Nah, never; poor white Republicans will continue to blame everything but themselves for their circumstances while they cling to dying industries in dying towns. They lost their jobs from the Democrat hoax, they couldn't find another one because of Mexicans, and they died because of Obamacare.

Pretty good summary of the voting population for the GOP. They are the own-goal voters of the world.

[Felya]

What’s a name for people demanding a catch 22, that ultimately keeps others from reaching positions of power. I don’t mean based on race... that’s a no no word... Is there a word that describes these people in general? Anyone speak German?

[eschatological]

Just like the police are claiming they're doing right now in the USA?

Or ICE ?

Come on, there must be someone better you can appoint rather than trying to stir the beehive and upsetting the black community by appointing someone who has been the champion of enforcing anti-black laws and legislation in court her entire life?

Don't you think BLM is going to have a field day protesting against her and Biden if she becomes the VP pick?

The difference is, since she's been a lawmaker, she's been a strong proponent of reforming the justice system.

And the whole point of the BLM movement is that THE COPS AREN'T ENFORCING THE LAW. They're violating it.

Jesus.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

The difference is, since she's been a lawmaker, she's been a strong proponent of reforming the justice system.

And the whole point of the BLM movement is that THE COPS AREN'T ENFORCING THE LAW. They're violating it.

Jesus.

Are the two European class reductionists going to try and talk social issues in the US again? Pretty funny given how the whole "The white working class should be allies with the LGBTQ community" discussion went a while back.

[JohnBrown1917]

No the problem is bigger than that and includes the many of the laws were written and in enforced in a racist way. It's more than just about the ones who break the law, but the entire judicial system having a clear bias against certain people of color.

Jesus.

Funny how quickly the liberals are to defend other liberals if it turns out that said liberals are part of the racist system.

[Felya]

Funny how quickly the liberals are to defend other liberals if it turns out that said liberals are part of the racist system.

It’s funny how you support a catch 22 that keep people from enacting systematic change.

[Endus]

Yeah, by keeing clearly innocent men in prison. Doing your job is no excuse if the system is terrible. Its like democrats are holy to you lot or something. They can do whatever they want, but oh don't you dare point out she did some horrible stuff.


Her being good at it only made it worse.

The American legal system is antagonistic, by design. Prosecutors have the sole goal of convicting the accused. Defense attorneys have the sole goal of protecting them from that conviction. Prosecutors will have to attempt to convict a likely innocent person in exactly the same manner that a defense attorney may have to defend a probably-guilty client. That's how the system works. It's expected that the judge and jury can compare and contrast the two accounts presented by those sides, and determine which side has the truth of it, or if the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Trying to accuse Harris of malfeasance for serving her role as a prosecutor, because she may have prosecuted people who were not, in fact, guilty, that's malicious garbage. It wasn't her responsibility to defend those people; there were other professionals with that role. It wasn't her job to determine guilt or innocence at all; that's the judge and jury's jobs. She's not the one who kept anyone in prison unfairly; the judge and jury were. She simply made her case.

The whole argument is in complete ignorance as to the ideological structure of the American legal system. If the problem is that convictions are occurring too often, that's a problem with the judges and jury, not prosecutors. Possibly also with underfunding of public defenders' offices, but that's not something that the prosecutorial team is responsible for either. Blaming the prosecutor for these things misses the actual, justifiable target.

And when you're aiming at a target to try and shut down the potential for a black woman to be a strong VP candidate, on this kind of misrepresentation, we really have to wonder if your issue is her success as a prosecutor, or that she's a black woman who will be a strong VP candidate and you're desperate to find something, anything, to shut that down.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

The American legal system is antagonistic, by design. Prosecutors have the sole goal of convicting the accused. Defense attorneys have the sole goal of protecting them from that conviction. Prosecutors will have to attempt to convict a likely innocent person in exactly the same manner that a defense attorney may have to defend a probably-guilty client. That's how the system works. It's expected that the judge and jury can compare and contrast the two accounts presented by those sides, and determine which side has the truth of it, or if the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Trying to accuse Harris of malfeasance for serving her role as a prosecutor, because she may have prosecuted people who were not, in fact, guilty, that's malicious garbage. It wasn't her responsibility to defend those people; there were other professionals with that role. It wasn't her job to determine guilt or innocence at all; that's the judge and jury's jobs. She's not the one who kept anyone in prison unfairly; the judge and jury were. She simply made her case.

The whole argument is in complete ignorance as to the ideological structure of the American legal system. If the problem is that convictions are occurring too often, that's a problem with the judges and jury, not prosecutors. Possibly also with underfunding of public defenders' offices, but that's not something that the prosecutorial team is responsible for either. Blaming the prosecutor for these things misses the actual, justifiable target.

And when you're aiming at a target to try and shut down the potential for a black woman to be a strong VP candidate, on this kind of misrepresentation, we really have to wonder if your issue is her success as a prosecutor, or that she's a black woman who will be a strong VP candidate and you're desperate to find something, anything, to shut that down.

You'd think these guys might want to actually work on the problem with, say, the direct election of prosecutors -- which creates incentives to aggressively pursue convictions -- instead of worrying about a VP pick.

That'd mean actually doing something, though.

[Endus]

IMO it has little to do with liberal and more to do with "my team rocks" mentality. If only GOP and DEM held their own elected officials to account the same way they do the opposite party we'd be a lot better off. :P

I'm a liberal market socialist and a Canadian.

What "team" do you think I'm batting for, here? I'm not even playing the same sport.

[AntiFascistVoter]

Are the two European class reductionists going to try and talk social issues in the US again? Pretty funny given how the whole "The white working class should be allies with the LGBTQ community" discussion went a while back.

Except now they're using BLM as cover for their personal biases. Next week, it will be First Nations.
These are the same bad faith jerks that claimed to support MeToo. Claimed Biden was senile... Claimed Biden was hiding.

Basically Trump/Putin supporter fantasizing every which way to discredit Biden.

Voters have been comfortable with Biden for decades. He was vetted in 2008.

We see through their malarkey.



Arguing with the 3 AntiBiden stooges is like watching the Trump interview. These posters are looking at charts all wrong, lying about their lies....

[Endus]

You'd think these guys might want to actually work on the problem with, say, the direct election of prosecutors -- which creates incentives to aggressively pursue convictions -- instead of worrying about a VP pick.

That'd mean actually doing something, though.

I mean, there's plenty to criticize in the American legal system.

I'm just making the point that "prosecutors aggressively pursued convictions in an intentionally adversarial legal system" is just a "well, duh" kind of thing. That's literally their role in the system. As much as defense attorneys stand for the principle that everyone, no matter how obviously guilty, deserves as solid a defense as can be given, prosecutors stand for the opposite; that any case must be prosecuted as thoroughly as possible if there's any chance the accused is guilty. If they aren't, then the defense team will be able to provide that defense and the jury will see that. That's how the system is supposed to work.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Except now they're using BLM as cover for their personal biases. Next week, it will be First Nations.
These are the same bad faith jerks that claimed to support MeToo. Claimed Biden was senile... Claimed Biden was hiding.

I think we should push them to actually do something. I mean, I don't think they get the Democratic Party is an actual political party that is built around functioning internal party and external organizations and expertise on a variety of issues.

For most minority issues policy is the key, and without a grasp of that policy it's really a pretty pointless discussion. That's why I framed this issue as a problem with how prosecutors in the US are often elected to office instead of appointed.

[eschatological]

Funny how quickly the liberals are to defend other liberals if it turns out that said liberals are part of the racist system.

It's funny, I spent 5 years as a public defender trying to fight that system.

And yet I can clearly see that the ADAs across the table from me weren't my enemies, but people who were caught between lawmakers trying to look tough on crime, and the police who held them hostage to what they thought justice was.

What the fuck have you done besides spout nonsense from Russia for the past 9 years on these forums?

[GreenGoldSharpie]

I mean, there's plenty to criticize in the American legal system.

I'm just making the point that "prosecutors aggressively pursued convictions in an intentionally adversarial legal system" is just a "well, duh" kind of thing. That's literally their role in the system. As much as defense attorneys stand for the principle that everyone, no matter how obviously guilty, deserves as solid a defense as can be given, prosecutors stand for the opposite; that any case must be prosecuted as thoroughly as possible if there's any chance the accused is guilty. If they aren't, then the defense team will be able to provide that defense and the jury will see that. That's how the system is supposed to work.

Oh, I agree. I just wish they would actually discuss the issue of problematic prosecutors instead of wielding it as a cudgel against a candidate they don't like. They should get involved in addressing this actual issue if they're so concerned about it.

[Edge-]

You don’t speak for the black community... You are trying to blame a black woman, for laws she had not part in writing. Why are you putting a ceiling on a black woman that made it, because of laws white men wrote? WTF?

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/1...rs-2020-075651

No, the black community made their feelings on Harris pretty clear during the primary.

[cubby]

I mean, there's plenty to criticize in the American legal system.

I'm just making the point that "prosecutors aggressively pursued convictions in an intentionally adversarial legal system" is just a "well, duh" kind of thing. That's literally their role in the system. As much as defense attorneys stand for the principle that everyone, no matter how obviously guilty, deserves as solid a defense as can be given, prosecutors stand for the opposite; that any case must be prosecuted as thoroughly as possible if there's any chance the accused is guilty. If they aren't, then the defense team will be able to provide that defense and the jury will see that. That's how the system is supposed to work.

The problem, and this is for another thread, is that people who are only marginally guilty get caught up in the system, and some people who aren't guilty, end up going to jail - because of what you just described. I'm not criticizing your description, because it's pretty accurate, just the overall problem that needs addressing.

Which is something a hard charging VP might be able to do.

[cubby]

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/1...rs-2020-075651

No, the black community made their feelings on Harris pretty clear during the primary.

That is a very interesting phenomenon - and black voters are typically very well informed.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

Dude, you've been protecting neo-liberalism and capitalist democrat decisions whenever it suits you. Fuck do I know why you're all of a sudden waving your flag in support of a conservative prosecutor and friend of police brutality.

So, what are you going to do about how prosecutors function in the US?