Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[PhaelixWW]

Not really, you claim Myopia but have yet to justify yourself, even agreeing that my take encompasses millions of people but then just constantly call it "Narrow visioned". Sorry, you can't both agree with me and then say its short sighted without justification.

I mean, I absolutely can, but...

So for example 2018 article:
Half of America hasn't recovered from the recession

Also from 2018:
5 groups still recovering from the financial crisis

The implication you're giving here is that the length and difficulty of the recovery is due to the policies overseeing said recovery. But that belies the reality of the nature of the recession to begin with, as well as presupposing that alternative policies would have been necessarily more effective.

But it's intellectual dishonesty to equate the 2008 recession which was caused by a massive financial sector crisis and the current economic downturn caused in large part by the pandemic and its handling in this country.

Because a recession for whom a vast number never even recovered from a full decade after it happened and even if you did you've had maybe a couple of years to build anything up in time for something that surpasses the Great Depression, yeah I wouldn't say I'm myopic, I'd say you are drumbeater for the administration that oversaw that.

The nature of the 2008 recession is such that a full 1:1 recovery is not really meaningfully possible. With that much economic rebuilding required, the wealth was never going to perfectly go right back to where it was, unfortunately. Despite the fact that the recovery has been "done" for years, the lasting effect of the 2008 recession will be increased wealth inequality, but the view that this is the "fault" of those who oversaw the recovery is a myopic one.

The other harsh truth is that the policies that will combat wealth inequality are wholly on the side of Democratic lawmakers. Trump has proven, time and time again, to champion policies that will (and have) only increase what you view as the "recovery" of the 2008 recession, let alone the current pandemic economic reaction.

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Right....

I cannot stress this enough. As a chilean i have no choice in the matter. But nevertheless, i'm begging you americans, The future of our planet, our species and our chance to forge our destiny amongst the stars is at stake. That's how fucking important is to throw Dotard Tang out

Uh, that's not calling Biden a savior; it's calling Trump the devil. Those are not the same thing at all.

[Elegiac]

Yeah, I am a hard leftist and will defend the person that brought the US out of WW2, ended a Thee Great Depression, ended prohibition, promoted one the most popular government programs in US History, and was elected 4 times based of his own popularity. He managed all of that while suffering from Polio and other health problems. He literally gave his life and health for this country.

Franklin was known as a class traitor, and he "welcomed their hatred". Biden and the Democrats just welcomes them into their conventions. FDR wasn't perfect and far from it. From what I had read Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt hardly knew each other personally, and there was an on going feud between houses within the Roosevelt Family. I am also unsure why people consider a 2 year president as Royalty, but it is laughable and only a media narrative pushed when they first took office.

Was FDR or even Teddy perfect? Of course not. The Japanese interment camps are a huge problem, but given the time of Jim Crow laws not all too surprising giving America's racist history. They both did far more for this country then has been seen in the past few decades.

Clearly you're willing to sacrifice some of your principles or beliefs for a manifest good, and not signing the death warrant of American democracy by being facile in re-electing Trump should be one of them. QED.

[Felya]

Right...

There is no mention of Biden in that quote... how exactly do you reconcile you claiming both, Biden being seen as a savior and democrats lacking enthusiasm about Biden? Because I know the answer that explains both... not only is Biden not seem as the savior, he is simply the anyone, in anyone other than Trump...

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Clearly you're willing to sacrifice some of your principles or beliefs for a manifest good, and not signing the death warrant of American democracy by being facile in re-electing Trump should be one of them. QED.

“We keep attacking Biden and everyone is so blind, they refuse to acknowledge it...” is a ridiculous comment after 4 years of “anyone, but Trump”... How fucking deaf can one be?

Edit: That Avante lawyer of Stormy Daniels had more support for president on this forum, than Biden ever did. Biden is a solution to a very simple problem... Trump...

[Bodakane]

Right....

Why the fuck did you cut off the part that qualified what i said if you weren't trying foment discord? if you were honestly trying to have a good faith discussion you wouldn't;t have done that.

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I'm arguing that I'm likely going to live my entire adult life, as are most people of my generation, and for all others for twenty some odd years in a state of economic depression. I'm being told and constantly gaslighted about how important this election is (You know like every other election we are told the stakes are apocalyptic) and its so nakedly farcical now. A man who plans to do nothing, versus another man who will do nothing. All the old Bush era neo-cons and republicans are now uber-democrats on Biden's side, Bush being a president whom any rational person would know was way worse than Trump is but maybe I have that insight because I can remember a time before 2016 and I've not been steadily watching cable news 24/7.

The only thing that seems certain to change in a Biden presidency is a news media culture that won't report on problems as much, and late night comedy shows will need new material but maybe Stephen Colbert's blood pressure can go down. In short, Nothing Will Fundamentally Change.

My point is all the outrage, all the cheerleading, is all fake, but accepted and played along with because its normalized. Two things come to mind, first that its very depressing to see people play along, people on the media watch what was a cringy Tim and Eric show skit / Marriott Hotel Commercial of a political convention that is entirely vapid and empty of anything and act as if it was a transcendental religious experience for them. What is perhaps more troubling is the reaction of people when you point this out, they either acknowledge what you say is a fair description, but call you a PoS for pointing it out, as if its wrong to out loud state the obvious OR people are accusing you of being the devil trying to shake their faith because they really want to believe this is some transcendent moment and that Biden's presidency heralds mankinds ascension into a new age.

You could distill then entire DNC to one image:

My hatred Trump is not fake. It is not manufactured. It is 100% based on the things he's done. W was a terrible president, but he had his moments. Trump? Has never once been presidential, a leader, honest, intelligent or above board. You have made the same claim numerous times, almost verbatim, about rational people not thinking Trump is worse than W, which based on your past, is likely because you've copied and pasted it from talking point. It is asinine.

[arandomuser]

ramsumsen has trump as +4 approval
and minnesota dead even in a poll

and this comes on the week qanon became an official republican platform


so i guess ive never felt so hopeless for our country

[Edge-]

So...I guess Elizabeth Warren was invited to speak during the Native American Caucus's time and...conservatives are absolutely losing their shit over it?

Apparently chat blew up with trolling, but pretty much the only news coverage of this I'm seeing is from Daily Caller and The Blaze and those kinds of sites, mostly focused on the trolling.

I'm not actually seeing much else about it, and not really seeing anything about native groups having an issue with this. Man I hate manufactured outrage from the party that endorses racism.

[Blur4stuff]

rasmussen is a very low rated poll that almost always puts republicans several points higher than they actually are

also, as bad as GW Bush was, Trump is significantly worse

I'm not looking forward to seeing which evil sack of shit gets the republican nomination next time around if this trend continues. I'll try to be optimistic and imagine them snapping out of this and becoming sane again. Well, their version of sane.

[D Luniz]

Why isn't Biden running ads about Trump's botched response to a pandemic, his mishandling of Hurricane Maria, and how all of his 2016 campaign managers have faced criminal charges?

He's got Project Lincoln and the Midas to run the negative ads. He can stick to the positive stuff. Help show a difference between him and Trump's spiteful raging

[PhaelixWW]

ramsumsen has trump as +4 approval
and minnesota dead even in a poll

and this comes on the week qanon became an official republican platform


so i guess ive never felt so hopeless for our country

I just talked earlier about Rasmussen's GoP skew. The Minnesota poll was actually Trafalgar, not Rasmussen, though, but they have a similar skew.

But from earlier today:



...including a Biden +2 from Texas.

[beanman12345]

ramsumsen has trump as +4 approval
and minnesota dead even in a poll

and this comes on the week qanon became an official republican platform


so i guess ive never felt so hopeless for our country

I know it's hard to have any hope right now, but let me try to give you some. The last time someone polled this well against an incumbent was 1992.

[Theodarzna]

He's got Project Lincoln and the Midas to run the negative ads. He can stick to the positive stuff. Help show a difference between him and Trump's spiteful raging

Being backed by the NeoCons at the Lincoln project is the ultimate black mark against ones campaign.

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So...I guess Elizabeth Warren was invited to speak during the Native American Caucus's time and...conservatives are absolutely losing their shit over it?

Apparently chat blew up with trolling, but pretty much the only news coverage of this I'm seeing is from Daily Caller and The Blaze and those kinds of sites, mostly focused on the trolling.

I'm not actually seeing much else about it, and not really seeing anything about native groups having an issue with this. Man I hate manufactured outrage from the party that endorses racism.

Are you unaware of the Elizabeth Warren DNA test and how this might look to like, someone who isn't an uber Democrat. Like I get Markos Moulitsas not seeing how that looks, but plenty of Leftists rightly pointed out that that is bad optics and freaking hilarious.

[Machismo]

Well, I recall a time right after the elections in which there was some strong daily attention in the media to figure out why people voted against Hillary and the Democratic Party.

Considering that Biden has become the Democratic Party nominee is just a sign that after 4 years people have forgotten those self-reflection lessons from 2016-2017.


Sure, you can attribute it all to racism, misinformation etc, but the real reason behind all that is anger, anger that the Democratic Party and the old guard Republican Party politicians created.

Getting rid of Trump isn't going to change that sentiment among the populace. They'll just make sure an even harsher / more aggressive Trump-like president will get his way afterwards.

You don't want to get rid of Trump, you want him to win.

Thats a bit disingenuous.

[Edge-]

Are you unaware of the Elizabeth Warren DNA test and how this might look to like, someone who isn't an uber Democrat. Like I get Markos Moulitsas not seeing how that looks, but plenty of Leftists rightly pointed out that that is bad optics and freaking hilarious.

I'm aware of that.

I'm also aware that outside of conservatives looking to troll and some Native American groups/progressives, nobody much gives a fuck.

Hence why, as I posted, the only people who seem to give a shit about this are right wing news sites who want to make it a thing. Because nobody else fuckin gives a shit if the Native American Caucus invites Warren to speak, and the only people I much care about who may give a shit would be Native Americans.

[Theodarzna]

I'm aware of that.

I'm also aware that outside of conservatives looking to troll and some Native American groups/progressives, nobody much gives a fuck.

Hence why, as I posted, the only people who seem to give a shit about this are right wing news sites who want to make it a thing. Because nobody else fuckin gives a shit if the Native American Caucus invites Warren to speak, and the only people I much care about who may give a shit would be Native Americans.

I hate to tell you this but if you tell the Elizabeth Warren story to any normal person, and get the DNA test results bit, anyone except for the most die hard partisan for the Democratic Party is going to bust out laughing at Warren.

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Clearly you're willing to sacrifice some of your principles or beliefs for a manifest good, and not signing the death warrant of American democracy by being facile in re-electing Trump should be one of them. QED.

Hard to sign a death warrant for something that's been dead for decades upon decades. I'm curious how one carries out the death penalty on a corpse.

[Edge-]

I hate to tell you this but if you tell the Elizabeth Warren story to any normal person, and get the DNA test results bit, anyone except for the most die hard partisan for the Democratic Party is going to bust out laughing at Warren.

I hate to tell you this, but most people will probably laugh and then proceed to immediately forget about it because it really, really, really doesn't fuckin matter to them.

Joe Everyman and Jill Everwoman don't much give a shit if she claimed to be a Native American decades ago on a form somewhere or that she entered a plagiarized recipe into a Native American cookbook.

You're dramatically overstating the significance of what is, in reality, a pretty minor issue to all but the most woke of woke lefties. And Native American groups who are, really, the only ones that have any standing to take offense to this and give a shit.

[PhaelixWW]

Sure, you can attribute it all to racism, misinformation etc, but the real reason behind all that is anger, anger that the Democratic Party and the old guard Republican Party politicians created.

Oh, you're here to tell us the "real reason"?

Pardon me if I don't believe someone who has so thoroughly proven how their bias clouds their judgment.

[Theodarzna]

I hate to tell you this, but most people will probably laugh and then proceed to immediately forget about it because it really, really, really doesn't fuckin matter to them.

Joe Everyman and Jill Everwoman don't much give a shit if she claimed to be a Native American decades ago on a form somewhere or that she entered a plagiarized recipe into a Native American cookbook.

You're dramatically overstating the significance of what is, in reality, a pretty minor issue to all but the most woke of woke lefties. And Native American groups who are, really, the only ones that have any standing to take offense to this and give a shit.

I grant nobody cares enough to look into it, but anyone who knows of her, unless they are an Elizabeth Warren supporter (If such people exist that is), will know that one simple fact about her. Most people don't know who she is and if reminded of her existence, likely know only about her humiliating DNA test incident.

Nobody is offended, except maybe Native Americans because she did use that claim to materially enrich herself and get jobs, but most people just laugh at her for it. You mistake mocking for offense. Most Leftists mock her because she is a great example of a typical Neo-Liberal. A snake, and hilariously duplicitous. The Wokies actually love her because she is so hip to the intersectional lingo.

[Elegiac]

Hard to sign a death warrant for something that's been dead for decades upon decades. I'm curious how one carries out the death penalty on a corpse.

Simple; plutocracy with the veneer of a democratic republic backslides fully into authoritarianism resulting in actual harm to actual people, not hypothetical "my tax break for sitting at home and pumping out kids for my FIRE sector husband not being sufficiently large is oppression" harm.

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I hate to tell you this but if you tell the Elizabeth Warren story to any normal person, and get the DNA test results bit, anyone except for the most die hard partisan for the Democratic Party is going to bust out laughing at Warren.

Hate to tell you this, but your opinion is not generalisable despite your insistence that it's representative of some silent majority.

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I grant nobody cares enough to look into it, but anyone who knows of her, unless they are an Elizabeth Warren supporter (If such people exist that is), will know that one simple fact about her. Most people don't know who she is and if reminded of her existence, likely know only about her humiliating DNA test incident.

Nobody is offended, except maybe Native Americans because she did use that claim to materially enrich herself and get jobs, but most people just laugh at her for it. You mistake mocking for offense. Most Leftists mock her because she is a great example of a typical Neo-Liberal. A snake, and hilariously duplicitous. The Wokies actually love her because she is so hip to the intersectional lingo.

Look, we get the source of the criticism:

People that complain the most about PMCs. Possess both an underutilized graduate degree and well-off parents.
They're mad PMCs used their degrees to build a career and get a mortgage.

While they're trying to explain to Nanna why they spent so much much on their hobbyist degrees.

• "I'm writing a book", is code for I post a lot on gaming forums.
• "I'm getting into teaching" is code for I part-time at Kaplan or as substitute teacher who hates the children of strangers.

But that's not what's under discussion. Once again, you have this consistent problem with believing that you feeling a way about a particular person means that viewpoint is held generally.

[Blur4stuff]

The American people didn't vote for Trump over Hillary. Important to remember that Trump didn't have a majority to begin with and has only alienated voters since.

I would agree the democratic party has room for improvement. These are things we can certainly change. The republican party, on the other hand, has become thoroughly rotten.

I would really fucking love the option of voting between multiple candidates and just picking the one I think will do the best job. I hate having to immediately exclude the entire republican party because of how corrupt most of them have become. Even when the rare, good and honest republican is running I still can't vote for them because I know their party will absolutely wreck shit when they have power.

[Edge-]

So the Native Americans caring should be ignored?

Let me know where I wrote that, because like, I've literally said the opposite in this thread on multiple occasions.