1. #10801
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Let's be honest. Most voters are not doing that kind of candidate research so it doesn't matter how many policies he has on his website.

    Y'all have to remember the electorate does not operate like people on debating politics on the internet.
    You have to remember that the person claiming they can’t find Biden’s policy, had no issues finding conspiracy theories about Israel and Americans turning to Islam, destroying the western world. The fact that he watches nothing, but alt right bullshit outside of US, isn’t an indication of anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    To build a little further on this. The same thing was brought out in 2016 when folks banged on endlessly about how Clinton had no platform and no policies. Folks like Endus, Didactic, and Edge must have known those policies by heart with the number of times they linked to her policy page. The folks arguing against it, continued to claim she lacked one.
    In this case, the fact that Biden hasn’t gotten his message out in Belgium, isn’t an actual problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Angel of Riots View Post
    Or you can just admit that you were proven absolutely fucking wrong. Like Ben Shapiro couldn't even have rekt you so hard with facts and logic as I just did on these past few pages. These last few pages can be summarized as follows:
    Did you just use Ben Shapiro as someone “rekt” with facts and logic? You might want to change your username again...

    The actual summery, is that Tim Pool and Ben Shapiro don’t tell you Biden’s policy... while it’s absolutely true, Biden hasn’t done well getting his message out in Brussels...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Trump’s platform is to negate everything he’s done for the last 4 years and then do it again.
    RNC does not have a platform, it’s part of their strategy.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
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  2. #10802
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Since there has been a lot of comparisons between Hillary polling and Biden’s against Trump, here is something that is different:

    Trump continues to break the polling
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/30/polit...sis/index.html
    Yet, the same poll found that Americans believed by a 51% to 46% margin that Trump would defeat Biden in the election. (Among voters, it was a tighter 50% to 48% spread in favor of Trump.)
    The polling on who voters think is going to win is a marked reversal of what was happening at this point four years ago. Voters believed that Clinton was going to win by a 62% to 28% margin in a mid-August Quinnipiac University poll.
    Even though the polling seems similar... there are far fewer Democrat voters that think the election is over, before he vote.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  3. #10803
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Since there has been a lot of comparisons between Hillary polling and Biden’s against Trump, here is something that is different:

    Trump continues to break the polling
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/30/polit...sis/index.html



    Even though the polling seems similar... there are far fewer Democrat voters that think the election is over, before he vote.
    Yeah, I read this. And felt...good. Dems being afraid of voting means turnout will be higher. Same way that Moore is going on a rampage saying Trump could win. That needs to happen. This isn’t over till Trump is dragged out kicking and screaming with Biden actually in office as President.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Angel of Riots View Post
    Or you can just admit that you were proven absolutely fucking wrong. Like Ben Shapiro couldn't even have rekt you so hard with facts and logic as I just did on these past few pages. These last few pages can be summarized as follows:


    > Me: "Biden is not doing a good job at messaging his main campaign policies."
    > You: "Biden's main policies are so easy to find, LOL! Everyone knows them, lmao, just go to his site!"
    > Some guy in the background: "lol goalposts moved!"
    > Me: "Okay, you've read his site, list them for us then."
    > Some guy in the background: "Gas lighting and may-mays!"
    > You: "Uhhhhhhh.......... <10 minute pause> you can go read the site yourself, lmao, I don't know man!"
    > Me: ...............


    And the sad part is, you guys had to put 4-5 of your heads together to try and come up with that some weak-ass defense and still couldn't bring forth any rational arguments.

    As far as I'm concerned I just won the Battle of Thermopylae here as a spartan army of one against an enemy that tried to outnumber me, but in the end, just didn't have what it takes to come out heroically.
    [Infraction]
    When folk think Ben Shapiro is an inspiration, you know something is deeply wrong.

  4. #10804
    Aww. You guys broke Anarch.

  5. #10805
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Angel of Riots View Post
    Wrong.

    If someone has to go to someone's campaign website to find a candidate's policies, then they are hard to find. It's like having to go to ground zero to find out that 9/11 happened.
    That tends to happen when you're a conspiracy theorist that dismisses legitimate newspapers as trash not worth wiping one's ass with.

  6. #10806
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    That tends to happen when you're a conspiracy theorist that dismisses legitimate newspapers as trash not worth wiping one's ass with.
    It’s so much worse... 9/11 was how terrorist got their message out, because they were ignored. My guess is that 9/11 pooped into his head, as the only example of getting your message out, but he realized the problem and ended up posting nonsense. It’s as if people don’t know his motive is watching America burn...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  7. #10807
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    It’s so much worse... 9/11 was how terrorist got their message out, because they were ignored. My guess is that 9/11 pooped into his head, as the only example of getting your message out, but he realized the problem and ended up posting nonsense. It’s as if people don’t know his motive is watching America burn...
    I more or less rest assured that the opinions of these begging-the-question type non-Americans going into this election don’t amount to more than half the length of the crack of a rats ass.

    Who the fuck cares if someone in Belgium or wherever doesn’t see fit to educate themselves on Biden’s policies or have an understanding of the actual political climate. Especially if their only insight into how Americans feel about the election are derived from shit they read from conservative hack sources, instead of... you know, actually living in the United States. And far from admitting that they don’t know or have an appreciation of these things... they just lean full into it.

    Those people’s opinions can safely be dismissed as nonsense. Though I hope for their country’s sake their aren’t too many people there like them. People like that in America is how we got stuck with Trump.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2020-08-30 at 05:28 PM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  8. #10808
    If you really think about it - the terrorists actually did win on 9/11, and we're seeing the results of their victory, 20 years later.

    Anyways, every day I have to remember that Twitter doesn't mean anything, left or right. After a Patriot Prayer guy was shot and killed last night, conservative Twitter was literally calling for a Civil War, ignoring that the dude is 1) from Patriot Prayer and thus a far right shitbag, and 2) he was part of a caravan of hundreds of Trump supporters who literally invaded Portland and shot paintballs at protesters and sprayed them with bear mace.

    That being said, having seen some video of the murder, it's a straight up murder, and whoever did it should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Maybe they can mitigate it by saying it was a "heat of the moment" thing because of the prior incitement, but at the time the guy was just standing on the street, as if he was waiting for his ride when a dude just came up behind him and shot and killed him. I'd say 2nd degree, easily, maybe 1st degree.

    As someone who has been a practicing pacifist my entire life, I'm growing to worry about the effect events like this will have on the election. For years we've been saying "We have to be better than them," and I can understand why people are frustrated by that...because it simply hasn't worked fast enough or at all in certain policy issues. I'm just not sure violence like this (and a rather damning video going around of protesters celebrating the death) is going to help. What it certainly WILL do is rile up the enthusiasm of Trump's base, when we want them as morose and defeatist as possible.

  9. #10809
    ironic these rioters helping re elect trump will set back social justice probably id say 100 years in relative terms, and probably indefinitely because there wont be any future elections, atleast ones that arent rigged like belarus if hes re elected which everyday seems more likely as americans seem to forget things like covid 19 and russian interference. In fact i know for a fact the average person is fine living in a country like russia so our argument of "authoritarianism bad" dosent land
    https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/201...-fascism-trump heres a good vox article priming us for our future government sure you wont have lots of liberties, but it wont be literally nazi germany, unless you are actually a real threat to the new powers. for example you can protest,, but gain an actual following and large amount of people calling out the government corruption like navalny, and you end up mysteriously poisoned, the fact is this is the future most working class people support
    Last edited by arandomuser; 2020-08-30 at 06:29 PM.

  10. #10810
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    If you really think about it - the terrorists actually did win on 9/11, and we're seeing the results of their victory, 20 years later.

    Anyways, every day I have to remember that Twitter doesn't mean anything, left or right. After a Patriot Prayer guy was shot and killed last night, conservative Twitter was literally calling for a Civil War, ignoring that the dude is 1) from Patriot Prayer and thus a far right shitbag, and 2) he was part of a caravan of hundreds of Trump supporters who literally invaded Portland and shot paintballs at protesters and sprayed them with bear mace.

    That being said, having seen some video of the murder, it's a straight up murder, and whoever did it should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Maybe they can mitigate it by saying it was a "heat of the moment" thing because of the prior incitement, but at the time the guy was just standing on the street, as if he was waiting for his ride when a dude just came up behind him and shot and killed him. I'd say 2nd degree, easily, maybe 1st degree.

    As someone who has been a practicing pacifist my entire life, I'm growing to worry about the effect events like this will have on the election. For years we've been saying "We have to be better than them," and I can understand why people are frustrated by that...because it simply hasn't worked fast enough or at all in certain policy issues. I'm just not sure violence like this (and a rather damning video going around of protesters celebrating the death) is going to help. What it certainly WILL do is rile up the enthusiasm of Trump's base, when we want them as morose and defeatist as possible.
    It also doesn't help when there are agents on the right who also purposefully go to the rallies to stir shit up. I've been saying this for a while now, but the "tolerance of the left" has limits and Trump and his fucking goons have been pushing people to the edge for years now. It says something about just how tolerant the left is that there haven't been any assassination attempts by now given how many lives he has destroyed. If he's reelected in November, though, I'm not sure how much longer that tolerance is going to hold. Especially when armed gangs of Trump's thugs are "proudly" marching through the streets already.

    Trump's base is always riled. That's why his approval rating has barely moved the past few years. They are mindlessly loyal and constantly frenzied. Even if Trump loses in November they'll still be as sure as ever that he'll stay in the White House forever. I would worry less about his base and more about conservative voters being turned off by the violence and blaming Biden for "reasons" even though Trump is the one pouring fuel on the fire.

  11. #10811
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    If you really think about it - the terrorists actually did win on 9/11, and we're seeing the results of their victory, 20 years later.

    Anyways, every day I have to remember that Twitter doesn't mean anything, left or right. After a Patriot Prayer guy was shot and killed last night, conservative Twitter was literally calling for a Civil War, ignoring that the dude is 1) from Patriot Prayer and thus a far right shitbag, and 2) he was part of a caravan of hundreds of Trump supporters who literally invaded Portland and shot paintballs at protesters and sprayed them with bear mace.

    That being said, having seen some video of the murder, it's a straight up murder, and whoever did it should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Maybe they can mitigate it by saying it was a "heat of the moment" thing because of the prior incitement, but at the time the guy was just standing on the street, as if he was waiting for his ride when a dude just came up behind him and shot and killed him. I'd say 2nd degree, easily, maybe 1st degree.

    As someone who has been a practicing pacifist my entire life, I'm growing to worry about the effect events like this will have on the election. For years we've been saying "We have to be better than them," and I can understand why people are frustrated by that...because it simply hasn't worked fast enough or at all in certain policy issues. I'm just not sure violence like this (and a rather damning video going around of protesters celebrating the death) is going to help. What it certainly WILL do is rile up the enthusiasm of Trump's base, when we want them as morose and defeatist as possible.
    America 2020 doesn't care about the high road. If the high road was still effective, Hillary would be going for re-election.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  12. #10812
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    If you really think about it - the terrorists actually did win on 9/11, and we're seeing the results of their victory, 20 years later.

    Anyways, every day I have to remember that Twitter doesn't mean anything, left or right. After a Patriot Prayer guy was shot and killed last night, conservative Twitter was literally calling for a Civil War, ignoring that the dude is 1) from Patriot Prayer and thus a far right shitbag, and 2) he was part of a caravan of hundreds of Trump supporters who literally invaded Portland and shot paintballs at protesters and sprayed them with bear mace.

    That being said, having seen some video of the murder, it's a straight up murder, and whoever did it should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Maybe they can mitigate it by saying it was a "heat of the moment" thing because of the prior incitement, but at the time the guy was just standing on the street, as if he was waiting for his ride when a dude just came up behind him and shot and killed him. I'd say 2nd degree, easily, maybe 1st degree. but lets say in 2024 assuming elections matter, i dont think they will when trump wins, but if it was theoritically a trump republican vs someone like jamaaal bowman, they probably wouldnt intefere as much becaause theyd win either way

    As someone who has been a practicing pacifist my entire life, I'm growing to worry about the effect events like this will have on the election. For years we've been saying "We have to be better than them," and I can understand why people are frustrated by that...because it simply hasn't worked fast enough or at all in certain policy issues. I'm just not sure violence like this (and a rather damning video going around of protesters celebrating the death) is going to help. What it certainly WILL do is rile up the enthusiasm of Trump's base, when we want them as morose and defeatist as possible.
    its not the 9/11 terrorist its the active measures led by putins kgb continuing while hes in power
    its all in the mueller report, they want to disband the military industrial complex which has checked russian agression, and by infiltrating the US culture war on both sides, in the mueller report he details how russians targeted and got both BLM protestors and trump supporters to protest in the same area leading to confrontation, but they know they win no matter who wins eventually, russia would be happy too if a progressive gained power and cut the military and left syria and was weaker on iran, but right now they are all in on trump because he has a track record of helping them out
    thats why its so important for joe biden to win, hes our last chance no matter what to hold russia accountable
    Last edited by arandomuser; 2020-08-30 at 06:43 PM.

  13. #10813
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Trump's base is always riled. That's why his approval rating has barely moved the past few years. They are mindlessly loyal and constantly frenzied. Even if Trump loses in November they'll still be as sure as ever that he'll stay in the White House forever. I would worry less about his base and more about conservative voters being turned off by the violence and blaming Biden for "reasons" even though Trump is the one pouring fuel on the fire.
    That's why it's so important for Biden and the Dems to keep pounding the message into people's heads that this is all happening under Trump's watch. He is the one who has sown all of this division and chaos and is continuing to do so.
    “Leadership: Whatever happens, you’re responsible. If it doesn’t happen, you’re responsible.” -- Donald J. Trump, 2013

    "I don't take responsibility at all."
    -- Donald J. Trump, 2020

  14. #10814
    I don't believe for a second that someone wanting to vote for Biden would suddenly vote Trump because of some protests and riots.

    If someone manages to pull off the mental gymnastics of not voting for Biden because of protests/riots that might happen under his presidency based on protests/riots that are happening during Trump's presidency was going to vote Trump regardless.

  15. #10815
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    As someone who has been a practicing pacifist my entire life, I'm growing to worry about the effect events like this will have on the election. For years we've been saying "We have to be better than them," and I can understand why people are frustrated by that...because it simply hasn't worked fast enough or at all in certain policy issues. I'm just not sure violence like this (and a rather damning video going around of protesters celebrating the death) is going to help. What it certainly WILL do is rile up the enthusiasm of Trump's base, when we want them as morose and defeatist as possible.
    There's a sad historical truth that people are having to re-learn, right now, and that truth is that you can't mix a free society with massive systemic inequalities. You can have those inequalities if you have a strongly authoritarian police state, who'll step on the necks of the disadvantaged at a moment's notice; fear and enforced weakness can last a surprisingly long time. But you can't have such inequalities in a free society, where those disadvantages can speak out and organize.

    Because they will. And if their protests go unheard, they'll get louder. They'll start to take stronger action. And that's a cycle that will, necessarily, continue until they are listened to, and their issues addressed.

    You can try becoming an authoritarian police state, but they've already organized and they know what freedom should be, so it's a hard sell and you're essentially creating the grounds for a revolution. This is basically where the USA is at, right now, FWIW. This can't be successful without mass deaths, to break the spirits of the downtrodden. So don't be surprised when that builds up, unless we change the path.

    And that kind of revolutionary outcome ends in one of two ways. Death camps, or guillotines, basically. Once you dig those trenches and set those battle lines, it's a question of who gets slaughtered and defeated. The only peace left is the peace of a cemetary.

    This is really fucking shitty. I'm not encouraging violence, here. I'm noting that, historically, this is the path these things take, unless the needs of those disadvantaged protesters are listened to and changes are made to address those issues. That's the only way out that doesn't involve mass killing.

    The problem here isn't the protesters. It's that the federal administration's response to them has been to tell them to fuck off, and many state admins are supporting that as well. Shit has to change, or the riots aren't going to stop. Fighting it like this just turns the country into an oppressive, authoritarian police state.

    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    its not the 9/11 terrorist its the active measures led by putins kgb continuing while hes in power
    its all in the mueller report, they want to disband the military industrial complex which has checked russian agression, and by infiltrating the US culture war on both sides, in the mueller report he details how russians targeted and got both BLM protestors and trump supporters to protest in the same area leading to confrontation, but they know they win no matter who wins eventually, russia would be happy too if a progressive gained power and cut the military and left syria and was weaker on iran, but right now they are all in on trump because he has a track record of helping them out
    thats why its so important for joe biden to win, hes our last chance no matter what to hold russia accountable
    Putin's the latest to take advantage of the USA's ideological and spiritual collapse, but they weren't the originators. I think eschatological's right; 9/11 terrorists killed America. It's just taking a while to bleed out.


  16. #10816
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There's a sad historical truth that people are having to re-learn, right now, and that truth is that you can't mix a free society with massive systemic inequalities. You can have those inequalities if you have a strongly authoritarian police state, who'll step on the necks of the disadvantaged at a moment's notice; fear and enforced weakness can last a surprisingly long time. But you can't have such inequalities in a free society, where those disadvantages can speak out and organize.

    Because they will. And if their protests go unheard, they'll get louder. They'll start to take stronger action. And that's a cycle that will, necessarily, continue until they are listened to, and their issues addressed.

    You can try becoming an authoritarian police state, but they've already organized and they know what freedom should be, so it's a hard sell and you're essentially creating the grounds for a revolution. This is basically where the USA is at, right now, FWIW. This can't be successful without mass deaths, to break the spirits of the downtrodden. So don't be surprised when that builds up, unless we change the path.

    And that kind of revolutionary outcome ends in one of two ways. Death camps, or guillotines, basically. Once you dig those trenches and set those battle lines, it's a question of who gets slaughtered and defeated. The only peace left is the peace of a cemetary.

    This is really fucking shitty. I'm not encouraging violence, here. I'm noting that, historically, this is the path these things take, unless the needs of those disadvantaged protesters are listened to and changes are made to address those issues. That's the only way out that doesn't involve mass killing.

    The problem here isn't the protesters. It's that the federal administration's response to them has been to tell them to fuck off, and many state admins are supporting that as well. Shit has to change, or the riots aren't going to stop. Fighting it like this just turns the country into an oppressive, authoritarian police state.



    Putin's the latest to take advantage of the USA's ideological and spiritual collapse, but they weren't the originators. I think eschatological's right; 9/11 terrorists killed America. It's just taking a while to bleed out.
    I was speaking recently with a professor about this issue and basically... nothing looks good... the issues of this country require such drastic change in beliefs, and drastic change in government and it doesn't seem likely without some major violent event going by history.

    For instance, we know that the FBI and DHS notes issues of police who are working either with hate groups or are in hate groups themselves. By that same token the FBI doesn't do much besides track them and say "but free speech" so any conversation about reform, and changing the police or retraining them is entirely fucking stupid as we are not addressing the very real problem that police themselves are very close with groups that the FBI themselves consider to be terror threats. How the fuck do we change that? How can it change, will it change? I have zero hope in this country to change that so what will happen?

  17. #10817
    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    I don't believe for a second that someone wanting to vote for Biden would suddenly vote Trump because of some protests and riots.

    If someone manages to pull off the mental gymnastics of not voting for Biden because of protests/riots that might happen under his presidency based on protests/riots that are happening during Trump's presidency was going to vote Trump regardless.
    You don't think that it could sway some undecided voter who doesn't pay much attention to anything except the "crazy" things they eventually hear about from other people, like riots?

  18. #10818
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    You don't think that it could sway some undecided voter who doesn't pay much attention to anything except the "crazy" things they eventually hear about from other people, like riots?
    I just don't think there's that many undecided voters and if there is, if they are going to hold riots happening on Trump's watch against Biden, what is the actual course fo action for Dems then?

    WADR, this exact type of worry is why the Dems struggle getting elected and struggled making real change when they do.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  19. #10819
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    You don't think that it could sway some undecided voter who doesn't pay much attention to anything except the "crazy" things they eventually hear about from other people, like riots?
    Maybe undecided, bur not anyone who had made up their mind to vote for Biden before then.

    And even then, I don't factor those that are so ignorant to current events as "undecided". These types of people generally vote Republican most of the time, since they're easily emotionally manipulated.

  20. #10820
    This shit is unbelievable. All Biden had to do was support literally any progressive policy like Medicare for All or even legalizing weed to win over left leaning independents, he didn't even need to get it done, just lie about it and say he supports it, and he couldn't even do that. And now he's going to lose the election and they're gonna blame it on Bernie supporters and BLM protesters. But he was the "most electable" guys!

    https://twitter.com/WalkerBragman/st...22482528129028
    RCP averages:

    AUGUST 30, 2016

    WI: Clinton +9.3
    PA: Clinton +7.6
    NC: Clinton +1.3
    FL: Clinton +3.6
    MI: Clinton +8.6
    OH: Clinton +3.2

    AUGUST 30, 2020

    WI: Biden +3.5
    PA: Biden +4.7
    NC: Trump +0.3
    FL: Biden +3.7
    MI: Biden +2.6 (Latest from 8/28)
    OH: Biden +2.3 (Latest from 8/24)
    Also lol let's keep going after Republicans guys what could go wrong?

    https://twitter.com/_waleedshahid/st...67744865902601

    An interesting dynamic in latest CBS poll:

    Only 5% of Republicans say they’re voting for Joe Biden.

    Right now that’s lower than the 8% of Republicans who voted for Obama in 2008, 6% of Republicans who voted for Obama in 2012, and 7% of Republicans who voted for Hillary Clinton.

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