Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Flower Milk]

You guys should chat... I’m interested in watching...

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Yes, but it’s also republicans that are selling Biden as supporting BLM and demanding Medicare for All... We have a fun dichotomy of the far left demanding, what Trump is convincing Biden already is. It’s like they both think it’s a winning strategy, but disagree for whom...

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Why should Biden waste his campaigning time, saying that he supports BLM and Medicare for All, when that’s exactly what Trump is doing? Since Trump and RNC just spent 5 days telling America that Biden is in the pocket of far left and supports riots, as well as Medicare for all... why should Biden spend any capital on it?

Because Trump is going to call Biden a radical left socialist that supports BLM and Medicare for All regardless if he does or not, which is literally happening right now. Why not support a policy that 70% of Americans support (80% Democrats, 60% Independents, and 40% Republicans) that could win over the left leaning Independents he needs to win the election? Why continue to try to court Republican voters when the polls show it isn't working? Why is he not trying to win over the Independent voters he needs to win the election by supporting policies that appeal to them? Can anyone answer that for me instead of just replying with "if they don't support Biden then they're awful people"? I feel like Democrats just throwing their hands up and saying "oh well we tried to win over Republicans and we tried nothing to win over Independents guess that's that" isn't a good explanation at all. Like, do you guys even want Biden to win the election at all? Because winning over Independents is the key to doing that, and just saying "those Independent voters are bad for not supporting Biden" doesn't win Biden the election, you know? He's gotta actually offer them something to win over their vote, that's how politics works, that's why campaigns fucking exist.

[Theodarzna]

Because Trump is going to call Biden a radical left socialist that supports BLM and Medicare for All regardless if he does or not, which is literally happening right now. Why not support a policy that 70% of Americans support (80% Democrats, 60% Independents, and 40% Republicans) that could win over the left leaning Independents he needs to win the election? Why continue to try to court Republican voters when the polls show it isn't working? Why is he not trying to win over the Independent voters he needs to win the election by supporting policies that appeal to him? Can anyone answer that for me instead of just replying with "if they don't support Biden instead of Trump then they're awful people"? I feel like Democrats just throwing their hands up and saying "oh well we tried to win with Republicans and we tried nothing to win over Independents guess that's that" isn't a good explanation at all.

I'd unironically vote for the version of Biden that Charlie Kirk and Trump describe.

The fact that they aren't hitching their entire wagon to the Health Care Issue, something so manifestly popular to the general public is down right intentional.

[Flower Milk]

I'd unironically vote for the version of Biden that Charlie Kirk and Trump describe.

The fact that they aren't hitching their entire wagon to the Health Care Issue, something so manifestly popular to the general public is down right intentional.

Same here. I'm literally one of those left leaning Independents that he needs to win over, and I feel like I'm screaming into the wind at liberals that Biden is going to lose the election if he doesn't even PRETEND to support Medicare for All. But whoops I guess I just don't know anything about politics or what people like, you know, myself actually want from Biden.

Like if Democrats aren't alarmed by polls like this they are absolutely stupid:

https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/...91820898537473

National Poll Among Independents:

Trump 44% (+10)
Biden 34%

@YouGovAmerica
/@YahooNews
, (8/27-28)

There are more left leaning Independents than right leaning Independents, 60% of them support Medicare for All, which lines up with that poll of around 40% of Independents supporting Trump. That's literally the other 30% of Independent voters right there for Biden to pick up to win the election by supporting Medicare for All. Why do people refuse to see this right in front of them? He is not going to win by continuing to court Republicans and only get 5% of them, he needs those Independents.

[Elegiac]

Same here. I'm literally one of those left leaning Independents that he needs to win over, and I feel like I'm screaming into the wind at liberals that Biden is going to lose the election if he doesn't even PRETEND to support Medicare for All. But whoops I guess I just don't know anything about politics or what people like, you know, myself actually want from Biden.

Like if Democrats aren't alarmed by polls like this they are absolutely stupid:

https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/...91820898537473


There are more left leaning Independents than right leaning Independents, 60% of them support Medicare for All, which lines up with that poll of around 40% of Independents supporting Trump. That's literally the other 30% of Independent voters right there for Biden to pick up to win the election by supporting Medicare for All. Why do people refuse to see this right in front of them?

All this poll proves is the existence of shy Republicans, lol.

M4A isn't the holy grail for every goddamn social and economic woe in this country and y'all need to stop acting like it is. It didn't help progressive Democrats in 2018, it didn't help Bernie or Warren in the primary, and it's pointless to talk about universal healthcare when the very instruments of democracy are at stake.

Climb down and procure some perspective. You are not as valuable a vote or representative of the general electorate as you think you are, and the primary proved that.

[Flower Milk]

All this poll proves is the existence of shy Republicans, lol.

M4A isn't the holy grail for every goddamn social and economic woe in this country and y'all need to stop acting like it is. It didn't help progressive Democrats in 2016, it didn't help Bernie or Warren in the primary, and it's pointless to talk about universal healthcare when the very instruments of democracy are at stake.

Climb down and procure some perspective. You are not as valuable a vote or representative of the general electorate as you think you are, and the primary proved that.

If you think those ~30% of Independents are actually going to vote for Trump and won't be won over to Biden by supporting him Medicare for All, then you're saying that Trump has already won the election and there is nothing Biden could have done.

Now if you think that's not true and Biden could still win over those ~30% of Independents to win the election, how do you suggest he do so? What steps do you think he needs to take to win them over, if not by supporting Medicare for All? What numbers do you have to back it up?

[Elegiac]

If you think those ~30% of Independents are actually going to vote for Trump and won't be won over to Biden by supporting him Medicare for All, then you're saying that Trump has already won the election and there is nothing Biden could have done.

No, I'm saying that it's likely you got a lot of poll respondents that are in fact Trump supporters claiming to be 'independent' to skew the numbers.

Something which is a known practice because it happens constantly on this very forum.

Now if you think that's not true and Biden could still win over those ~30% of Independents to win the election, how do you suggest he do so? What steps do you think he needs to take to win them over, if not by supporting Medicare for All? What numbers do you have to back it up?

Polling aggregates don't support the existence of this mythical 30% of left leaning independents nor does any actual electoral data. Citation needed for your "M4A is the only way to win" nonsense first, hun.

The amount of residual salt leftover from Bernie failing to win the primary is absolutely insane, Christ and Allah.

[Flower Milk]

No, I'm saying that it's likely you got a lot of poll respondents that are in fact Trump supporters claiming to be 'independent' to skew the numbers.

Something which is a known practice because it happens constantly on this very forum.



Polling aggregates don't support the existence of this mythical 30% of left leaning independents nor does any actual electoral data. Citation needed for your "M4A is the only way to win" nonsense first, hun.

The amount of residual salt leftover from Bernie failing to win the primary is absolutely insane, Christ and Allah.

I don't even know why I bother. I'll be back to check this thread after the election to specifically respond to this and tell you "I told you so". If you don't want to listen to the very demographic that Biden needs to win the election on how to win over their votes and just pretend like they don't actually exist and are "secret Trump supporters" pretending to be Independents, well good luck with that. Whatever you need to tell yourself, "hun".

[Elegiac]

If you don't want to listen to the very demographic that Biden needs to win the election

It's not that I don't "want" to listen to the demographic you claim to represent - I'm disputing that Biden needs you to win the election, at all.

There aren't undecided people at this point in the game, and the people that claim to be are either irredeemably ignorant or outright concern trolls and should be regarded as such because there continues to be no evidence such people represent an appreciable real world presence.

The actual question is whether or not electoral suppression can be overcome.

[Theodarzna]

All this poll proves is the existence of shy Republicans, lol.

M4A isn't the holy grail for every goddamn social and economic woe in this country and y'all need to stop acting like it is. It didn't help progressive Democrats in 2018, it didn't help Bernie or Warren in the primary, and it's pointless to talk about universal healthcare when the very instruments of democracy are at stake.

Climb down and procure some perspective. You are not as valuable a vote or representative of the general electorate as you think you are, and the primary proved that.

This sounds like a 2016 Hillary Clinton "But will giving people health care end racism?" type of stance.

[Zan15]

Uhm... Is cancelling the NFL, NBA, NASCAR and Goodyear count as cancel culture? Trump can bitch about MSM and all our ban Tik Tok in US, but you want the liberal reaction? Yeah... it exists... it’s not liberals pretending it doesn’t...

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Trump called for a boycott of Goodyear just last week... It sucks that Kathy Griffin didn’t have a better career so I don’t feel like I am stretching the word “Star”, but how is her career going?

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It’s also punching down... it’s defending the elite, from the unwashed masses of twitter...

i am sure the dixie chicks would love back all that lost revenue from republican cancel culture over decades ago. as if liberals started this mess, i just give up with these nuts and 40% of the country believing them.

[Elegiac]

This sounds like a 2016 Hillary Clinton "But will giving people health care end racism?" type of stance.

And it's a valid question to ask since giving people health care clearly doesn't address the full extent of concerns within a big tent party despite some people's insistence to the contrary, as seen in this thread. Once again: playing "Medicare Para Todos" on repeat didn't help Bernie in the primary.

"If the Democrats just addressed my pet issues they would easily win the election" has to be one of the more navel gazing takes of this electoral cycle.

[Themius]

shipity snip

This is a whole lot of "but people will react a certain way"

You mean people have reactions to things? Well that isn't new now is it? Ever shifting code of conduct? Goodness gracious I should hope fucking to heaven people following ever shifting codes of conduct. Else it seems we would be stuck in the olden days for fuck sakes...

[beanman12345]

I don't even know why I bother. I'll be back to check this thread after the election to specifically respond to this and tell you "I told you so". If you don't want to listen to the very demographic that Biden needs to win the election on how to win over their votes and just pretend like they don't actually exist and are "secret Trump supporters" pretending to be Independents, well good luck with that. Whatever you need to tell yourself, "hun".

So what exactly are you doing to fight fascism?

[Theodarzna]

This is a whole lot of "but people will react a certain way"

You mean people have reactions to things? Well that isn't new now is it? Ever shifting code of conduct? Goodness gracious I should hope fucking to heaven people following ever shifting codes of conduct. Else it seems we would be stuck in the olden days for fuck sakes...

You've completely ignored the core substance of the general public and their feelings.

Repeating:
The findings are more consistent with what the critics of cancel culture are saying. The line of unacceptability is constantly, rapidly and unpredictably shifting; sanctions for crossing it are applied arbitrarily but sometimes harshly.

The issue isn't that it changes, but that it changes in unpredictable, rapid, and constantly changing ways, and that the punishments are arbitrary and harsh in way that are hard to predict.

And again, you have fit the rubric perfectly. You state its a good thing. Well you are against public perception and also grossly mischaracterizing the public's perception.

[Themius]

.

Is something real because Americans have a problem with some shit that isn't new? I mean for fuck sakes, half of Americans don't believe masks work because their god told them so, does that mean now that masks don't work? If 30% of Americans believe the earth is flat does that then mean in fact the earth is now flat?

Unpredictable? I haven't seen this rapid unpredictable change instead what I have seen is people who generally have gotten away with shit for you know... years suddenly find themselves not able to call people slurs, or make rape jokes or jokes about gender and sex. And when I say jokes... I mean jokes at someone's expense by punching down... (which HAS NEVER BEEN ACCEPTABLE FOR COMEDY SINCE LIKE IDK THE 80S)

You got videos, I got videos:



Public perception doesn't mean fucking shit for god damn facts. Do you think I gave a fuck when public perception was "global warming isn't a big deal Al Gore is being over the top" yet here we are with things getting worst faster than scientist thought with the cut off for catastrophe being too close and now we are looking at best case being we get out of it badly, but not too badly.

"See but you call it a good thing"

Cancel culture doesn't exist... canceling is the act of people don't wanting to listen to you or pay patronage.

Is Shawn being cancelled because he's a fucking paedophile fucking creepy piece of shit??? Or is it just idk... people don't want to watch or care to watch or be entertained by a weird fucking rapey paedophile piece of shit?

As noted in that video, so many of the people bitching and moaning about cancel culture are the very people who somehow magically have a fucking platform with tons of people to bitch to

[Theodarzna]

[...]

You argue it doesn't exist, but then give it a definition, thus it is a thing. You are still arguing it is a thing that is real and can be given a name, you just quibble over the public having a negative perception of it.

Hopefully the case of "It doesn't exist, but also its a good thing and you are stupid for thinking otherwise" works as a response. I suspect it won't because I was able to predict your entire response and every response to it. I think Trump is banking on that being your response.

[Themius]

You argue it doesn't exist, but then give it a definition, thus it is a thing. You are still arguing it is a thing that is real and can be given a name, you just quibble over the public having a negative perception of it.

Cancel culture is not a thing because cancel culture says "it is a new phenomenon"that's a problem of "today" and it fucking isn't.

Did you forget Wollstonecraft? Did you forget idk... the Harlem rannaisance? or the civil rights movement? or the French Revolution? or the civil rights laws of Persia in about 300 BC?

I mean to say that the act of not listening to paying for something because you don't like it is "cancel culture and new" is stupid... it would require you to have never known shit about anything in the world to believe such a thing.

Cancel Culture is what right wing people call everyone who doesn't' like a thing...

"I'm not buying Nivea because of homophobic remarks"

right wing - "omg bro, what the cancel culture what's wrong with you!!! you leftist and cancel culture! What are you leftist doing this now it was never never never ever like this before!"

Right so boycotts apparently are new things... or people not buying something because it doesn't match there values has never happened before in history.

Meanwhile idk why I'm even taking to you about anything that requires more than 5 seconds thought. You are voting for Trump while "so concerned" like you're fucking Senator Collins or some shit.

[Theodarzna]

Cancel culture is not a thing because cancel culture says "it is a new phenomenon"that's a problem of "today" and it fucking isn't.

Did you forget Wollstonecraft? Did you forget idk... the Harlem rannaisance? or the civil rights movement? or the French Revolution? or the civil rights laws of Persia in about 300 BC?

I mean to say that the act of not listening to paying for something because you don't like it is "cancel culture and new" is stupid... it would require you to have never known shit about anything in the world to believe such a thing.

Cancel Culture is what right wing people call everyone who doesn't' like a thing...

"I'm not buying Nivea because of homophobic remarks"

right wing - "omg bro, what the cancel culture what's wrong with you!!! you leftist and cancel culture! What are you leftist doing this now it was never never never ever like this before!"

Right so boycotts apparently are new things... or people not buying something because it doesn't match there values has never happened before in history.

Meanwhile idk why I'm even taking to you about anything that requires more than 5 seconds thought. You are voting for Trump while "so concerned" like you're fucking Senator Collins or some shit.

I cited an actual Marxist to describe what it is and what is wrong with it. You're insistence on a confused narrative of "It doesn't exist, but also is this wonderful good thing that I endorse, but also isn't real and only dumb people mention it", I mean is Ben Burgis dumb?

[Flower Milk]

So what exactly are you doing to fight fascism?

I'm in the streets fighting back against Nazis. What are you doing? Portland is my hometown, and I've been fighting back against Nazis and skinheads for decades.

[Themius]

I cited an actual Marxist to describe what it is and what is wrong with it. You're insistence on a confused narrative of "It doesn't exist, but also is this wonderful good thing that I endorse, but also isn't real and only dumb people mention it", I mean is Ben Burgis dumb?

You seem incapable of... hmm thinking through what I am saying.

I am defining cancel culture as a basic thing that humans have done forever and therefore defining that as suddenly a new culture is fucking ridiculous.

Do we have feet culture because we have feet we walk on? If I start saying you're so into feet culture because you don't use a wheelchair or rollerblades, does this now mean that feet culture is a thing?

What about sore-finger culture from using your fingers a lot is that new?