Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Thepersona]

I mean he can't force mayors to accept help if they refuse it.

He's not offering help. He's not trying to solve the problem (the underlying problem, the real problem, the one that started 400+ years ago). Instead he's trying to make these undesirables (as he would love to say) to fall back in line and dont question dear leader.

[Felya]

MANY MORE WILL BE HURT AND/OR DIE UNDER TRUMP.

Even without hyperbole, how is 4 more years of Trump building a red scare around medicare for all, set us further back than we ever were? The payroll tax deferment starts tomorrow... in 4 years, it might be progressive to have social security and Medicare for some, because it will be defunded by 2023...

Edit: These people are bitching about Medicare for all, when funding for social security and Medicare starts to be deferred tomorrow.

Trump’s Payroll Tax Deferment Plan Goes Into Effect
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielc.../#1ff5e1775e8b

Trump's August 8 executive action temporarily suspending payroll tax collections came as negotiations in Congress deadlocked over a new coronavirus stimulus package. Earlier this month Trump said if he was reelected, he would get rid of the payroll taxes permanently, though White House officials said afterward such a plan isn’t currently under consideration. If Trump were able to permanently cut payroll taxes, and if such a law went into effect on January 1, 2021, Social Security payments would run out by mid 2023, according to Social Security Chief Actuary Stephen Goss.

Edit 2: “New New Deal” is funny... 4 more years of Trump and we will need the “Old New Deal”...

[Sunseeker]

The roommate that shits, because you believe in 4 years, the landlord will have to replace everything. Savings!

As stupid as the above sounds, that is the logic...

Ah yes, the magic sky landlord, who rents us this apartment and commanded us to burn everything to the ground because the sooner we do, the sooner we can murder the guys in the flat next door and then all be given a penthouse suite.

[Felya]

Ah yes, the magic sky landlord, who rents us this apartment and commanded us to burn everything to the ground because the sooner we do, the sooner we can murder the guys in the flat next door and then all be given a penthouse suite.

The landlord is the government... we will be covered in shit, so will have no choice. Let’s just ignore that by the time we are clean from the shit, we will be ready to start the cycle over again.

[Omega10]

Bloomberg is doing his part.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/data-firm...143620130.html

Title: Data firm predicts election 'chaos' as Trump seems to win in a landslide before losing as more votes are counted

Excerpts:

Hawkfish, the political data agency funded largely by Michael Bloomberg and contracting with Democratic candidates in the 2020 election, is predicting "chaos in America" once this year's presidential votes are in, Axios reports. "We believe that on Election Night, we are going to see Donald Trump in a stronger position than the reality actually is," Hawkfish CEO Josh Mendelsohn said, calling the phenomenon a "red mirage."

That's presumably because Trump will win — "potentially in a landslide" — Election Day's more quickly tallied in-person votes, "but lose a week later" as absentee ballots are counted, Axios describes. Trump is already stoking mistrust surrounding absentee and mail-in ballots, adding fuel to this potentially chaotic fire.

This pretty much summarizes the whole article. Republicans will vote in person, democrats by mail.

On election night, Trump will have much better numbers. Each day this numbers will look worse and worse, and after a week or two he will be behind and lose.

This happened in Seattle several times with lefty councilwomen having fairly large deficits on election day, and with each succeeding day the deficit would diminish until they passed their opponents and won by substantial margins.

In Seattle, this happened regularly and was never an issue.

In the US with Trump for 2020, this will not be so benign.

Bloomberg has done the research and is sending out the alarm. This is a most valuable contribution from him.

[Endus]

Because no M4A means watching 68,000 people die needlessly every year for the crime of being too poor to afford healthcare. I can't accept that no matter who wins the election. I can't accept just letting thousands of people die every year in the name of incremental progress. I don't give up on supporting Medicare for All and argue with people against it just because Biden is the nominee.

And I know you probably disagree, but I still think Biden will lose the election due to left leaning Independents/younger voters not showing up for him because he doesn't support Medicare for All. I guess we'll find out in November.

And this is cutting off your political nose to spite your face.

The time for pushing for the "right" candidate is during the primary race. Once that race is over, as it is now, you have essentially two options on the table. You can vote for Trump, vote for Biden, or say "fuck it, I don't care, I'm somewhere in the middle".

Pushing against Biden at this stage is support for Trump's election. That's the practical outcome you're pushing for. You're attempting to convince voters to step away from Biden, which can only help bring about a Trump re-election. It cannot possibly give you a more-progressive canadidate for 2020.

Who do you think will be better for health coverage through 2024? Biden, or fucking Trump? Even if you're a single-issue voter on this, the answer should be bleedingly obvious, but it's also the answer you're spending all your time working against.

When your options are "two steps forward, one step back" or "three steps back", or even "stand here and twiddle our thumbs", trying to shut down any option but "three steps back" means you're not interested in forward progress at all, in any practical terms.

[Blur4stuff]

Assuming the US doesn't become a fascist hellhole, M4A will likely happen at some point. That point is most certainly closer with a Biden presidency. M4A is a top issue for me, but this is a fact I accept. The next generation of dems will be more progressive. We already see it happening. We just aren't there yet.

[Gestopft]

Because no M4A means watching 68,000 people die needlessly every year for the crime of being too poor to afford healthcare. I can't accept that no matter who wins the election. I can't accept just letting thousands of people die every year in the name of incremental progress. I don't give up on supporting Medicare for All and argue with people against it just because Biden is the nominee.

And I know you probably disagree, but I still think Biden will lose the election due to left leaning Independents/younger voters not showing up for him because he doesn't support Medicare for All. I guess we'll find out in November.

M4A is one of my top issues too. And it's not happening in the next four years. It sucks.

But if you EVER want it to happen, Trump and McConnell replacing RBG (or Breyer) is pretty much the worst thing that can happen. Same goes for any number of Progressive issues: Joe Biden won't drive us to the promised land, but he also won't actively set up a roadblock to stop us from getting there the way the G.O.trumP will.

[eschatological]

You'd think that Libel/Slander could protect some of this. I guess the main problem would be proving that it did any actual damage since the main yahoos that throw it around wouldn't have voted for him anyways.

Libel and slander has a much higher bar against public figures. They're supposed to "just take it" in re: to lies and rumors and shit made up about them. These crimes are basically around as redress for the private citizen to seek damages when their life is ruined by false statements....celebrities rarely have shit ruined, even if their press is bad.

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https://twitter.com/wagatwe/status/1300116819798183938

Well, I'm not white, and I'm a progressive, and I've attended my fair share of protests this summer, both as a participant and as a legal observer. My issue with antifa is that the optics suck, and the more violent tactics are not acceptable to the vast majority of people in this country. You want to know why Trump's numbers among blacks are going up? It ain't because of Biden, who black people literally made the nominee. It's because those older, landline-using black folk are tired of young white kids from the Red Rose brigade co-opting the BLM movement, causing violence, burning shit down in their neighborhood, and then going home to their safe, undisturbed suburbs.

And optics matter for an election, because our electorate is fucking dumb as shit. And supposedly, antifa are social media savvy, and should FUCKING KNOW THIS. The pretty orange flames and the knocking down of statues - those are the visceral video clips which A) the media craves (which you should know) because they generate clicks with outrage, and B) ultimately what most people will see instead of the vast majority of peacefulness at protests. Even when CNN has a chyron that says "protests mostly peaceful" while their reporter stands in front of something on fire, it becomes a meme.

When I asked you if you thought rioting was helping fight fascists, you linked me a history of fascism in Portland. Sure. That's happened. But you never answered the question, which leads me to think that your mindset is "fuck the election/optics, this is the only acceptable response." And while that's not entirely wrong (fascists only understand force, after all), your shortsightedness is detrimental to long term goals.

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Liberals are not my ally, they've made that increasingly clear they don't give a shit about leftists and have given us a big fat middle finger. Do you think we're allies? Be honest. Just admit it already, you fucking hate us.

Liberals are your allies.

They just recognize that you can't drag fully one half of the American public kicking and screaming towards progress, because that one half tends to be uneducated and violent, and it'll cause massive unrest. They take it one step at a time.

The U.S. is more progressive right now than it ever has been in any moment of its history, because of liberals. There's still a lot to do, especially on the economic side (which is where I'd put health care as well), because only in the past decade have "normal" people realized that Reaganomics is bullshit phantom economics. People loved Bush's economic policies.....until it caused the 2008 financial crisis.

[starlord]

Well, I'm not white, and I'm a progressive, and I've attended my fair share of protests this summer, both as a participant and as a legal observer. My issue with antifa is that the optics suck, and the more violent tactics are not acceptable to the vast majority of people in this country. You want to know why Trump's numbers among blacks are going up? It ain't because of Biden, who black people literally made the nominee. It's because those older, landline-using black folk are tired of young white kids from the Red Rose brigade co-opting the BLM movement, causing violence, burning shit down in their neighborhood, and then going home to their safe, undisturbed suburbs.

And optics matter for an election, because our electorate is fucking dumb as shit. And supposedly, antifa are social media savvy, and should FUCKING KNOW THIS. The pretty orange flames and the knocking down of statues - those are the visceral video clips which A) the media craves (which you should know) because they generate clicks with outrage, and B) ultimately what most people will see instead of the vast majority of peacefulness at protests. Even when CNN has a chyron that says "protests mostly peaceful" while their reporter stands in front of something on fire, it becomes a meme.

When I asked you if you thought rioting was helping fight fascists, you linked me a history of fascism in Portland. Sure. That's happened. But you never answered the question, which leads me to think that your mindset is "fuck the election/optics, this is the only acceptable response." And while that's not entirely wrong (fascists only understand force, after all), your shortsightedness is detrimental to long term goals.

careful now, that kind of talk gets you called a "white supremacist" around here.

[Shalcker]

Biden ain't great, but he's the bus. Get on the goddamned bus and get into town.

Why would people get on the bus that doesn't stop on their bus stop?

When the driver even said that if by some miracle bus will be driving past it he will never stop there?

[starlord]

Why would people get on the bus that doesn't stop on their bus stop?

When the driver even said that if by some miracle bus will be driving past it he will never stop there?

thats an excellent question, why does putin keep getting elected?

[Elegiac]

Why would people get on the bus that doesn't stop on their bus stop?

At least it gets you into town.

Y'all try to twist these analogies without understanding them lol.

[Shalcker]

Who do you think will be better for health coverage through 2024? Biden, or fucking Trump? Even if you're a single-issue voter on this, the answer should be bleedingly obvious, but it's also the answer you're spending all your time working against.

Wouldn't increasing weight of this particular political point work better long-term though? Why do you need to confine it to just one presidential term? Striving for local wins can rob you of greater gains in the future.

If it will prove to be critical in swaying voters (or not having it resulting in them not voting), it seems much more likely that Democrat candidates will actually put it as their policy next time in 2024.

[Elegiac]

If it will prove to be critical in swaying voters

This is assumed based on...something Shaun King said, I guess.

Medicare for All is not currently a winning issue.

[zealo]

Why would people get on the bus that doesn't stop on their bus stop?

When the driver even said that if by some miracle bus will be driving past it he will never stop there?

Because the other bus available is offering a trip out from a cliff edge, as opposed to a stop a bit further away than you'd have liked.

[Shalcker]

At least it gets you into town.

Y'all try to twist these analogies without understanding them lol.

Hoping to get where you want when there is no infrastructure for getting there and the closest declared stop is behind busy high-speed highway you have no way of crossing? When even things that are actually declared as bus stops sometimes don't get bus stopped there, and you cannot be sure it'll actually get you any closer to your destination despite vaguely driving in that direction?

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Because the other bus available is offering a trip out from a cliff edge, as opposed to a stop a bit further away than you'd have liked.

Well, maybe the right way is then waiting for the right bus rather then getting on "cliff edge" one. You'll avoid unnecessary bus fare that way too.

[zealo]

Hoping to get where you want when there is no infrastructure for getting there and the closest declared stop is behind busy high-speed highway you have no way of crossing? When even things that are actually declared as bus stops sometimes don't get bus stopped there, and you cannot be sure it'll actually get you any closer to your destination despite vaguely driving in that direction?

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Well, maybe the right way is then waiting for the right bus rather then getting on "cliff edge" one. You'll avoid unnecessary bus fare that way too.

Anyone living in the US will have to deal with the consequences of the outcome regardless of whether they care enough to vote.

The "wait for the right bus", in practice, does not exist at this juncture.

[Shalcker]

This is assumed based on...something Shaun King said, I guess.

Medicare for All is not currently a winning issue.

Which policy is more universally supported overall?

[Dontrike]

I honestly can't see trump losing this election nor the Democrats doing well in the senate... the past three months have been pretty disastrous with cities being burned and local mayors simply watching it happen and when they are offered aid they refuse it out of some bizzare political principle.

That "aid" has only been force. If Trump's intent was to actually stop this he'd try opening a dialogue and not be divisive nor blame everyone else. Instead he only offers brute force because that's all he understands, thanks to him having the emotional and intellectual range of an eleven year old boy. We saw what that "aid" was and it did not make things any better but instead escalated the issue. His cops dragging people into vans didn't do shit and when it was seen it was unhelpful and made things worse of course other cities/states would turn that "aid" down.

Trump could easily solve this if he was the "greatest dealmaker ever" like he touts himself as he could talk to people out of their anger, and also if he had even a dash of human empathy.

This would be like saying "Well I tried helping my meth addicted friend to give up meth by giving him cocaine, but he didn't want the help, so now it's his fault."