Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[cubby]

But it seems like you could make that argument about any political divide these days. Where everything that is left-wing or right-wing and opposed to liberalism must be a result of geopolitical brainwashing and not because lefties legitimately don't want to support someone who could entrench the economic status quo just to make sure that gay people feel safe for the next 4-8 years.

No, you really couldn't. You can't generalize any of those things you suggest. Your summary of the situation isn't correct, but you know that, you just won't accept it. In the case of Sanders supporters sliding over to Trump, it's a "beyond ridiculous" idea to even consider - the worst case Sanders' peeps would do is not vote. Which is a de facto vote for Trump, but not a direct one.

[Felya]

What I guess is the mistaken thinking of the new reply guy, is that the Dem primary contains the entire electorate that isn't Republicans. For the most part the Dem primary is a narrow contest; dominated by party brand partisans, far more influenced by machine politics and patronage networks (See Jim Clyburn) and Sanders appeal was in the General Electorate, so he won big with non-Democrats. But non-Democrats aren't fanatically invested in the Dem primary or even necessarily able to vote in it.

Your arguing that republicans would have voted more for Bernie? Based on what? Trump literally telling them to, to stop Biden?

[Machismo]

What I guess is the mistaken thinking of the new reply guy, is that the Dem primary contains the entire electorate that isn't Republicans. For the most part the Dem primary is a narrow contest; dominated by party brand partisans, far more influenced by machine politics and patronage networks (See Jim Clyburn) and Sanders appeal was in the General Electorate, so he won big with non-Democrats. But non-Democrats aren't fanatically invested in the Dem primary or even necessarily able to vote in it.

Well, when you keep getting caught lying, plagiarizing, and pushing disingenuous bullshit, don't be surprised when people call you out for it.

[Machismo]

But we let you do it all the time.

You all keep deflecting about Biden's faults at your own peril. This is 2016 all over again, and the one hope is that more Boomers will vote for Biden then those who stayed home with Hillary. It's clear Biden doesn't give a damn about the Youth or Hispanic vote at this point. Good luck with the Suburban vote and hoping that to cerry Biden into Office. It didn't work 4 years ago, but it might be enough in 2020.

Biden is a creepy old dude, and represents almost none of the political stances I want. I will not be voting for the guy. Then again, I'm also not a liberal or a Democrat, so there's no reason for me to vote for the guy. Theo is a proven Trumpster who is concern trolling, and pretending to totes be a Bernie supporter to muddy the waters.

Bernie lost, because he is simply not what Democrats want. His plans would cost a shit ton of other people's money, which is something moderates pretend to not want (even though they actually do). In the end, bernie supporters will have to decide what they truly care about. If they want Trump out, they will vote for Biden. If they want to piss off the Democrats, they will stay home, or they will vote for Trump... making them true Trumpsters. Now, if they are not Democrats, then they need to stop bitching and moaning that the Democrats aren't listening to them. Bernie voters are clearly unreliable, so it seems foolish to bet your future on them.

I'm not lying, I'm not plagiarizing, and I'm not pushing disingenuous bullshit.

[Felya]

You all keep deflecting about Biden's faults at your own peril. This is 2016 all over again, and the one hope is that more Boomers will vote for Biden then those who stayed home with Hillary. It's clear Biden doesn't give a damn about the Youth or Hispanic vote at this point. Good luck with the Suburban vote and hoping that to carry Biden into Office. It didn't work 4 years ago, but it might be enough in 2020.

Why was Hilary a bad candidate? ...without the word “feelings”... Do you think Trump will be the first President to lose the popular vote twice?

[Felya]

We are now in talks about bailing out the oil giants because the cost of oil went below 0.

Can you explain how not voting Hilary, was supposed to prevent this? Not voting or voting Trump, is what leads to this. Pushing divisions amongst democrats, is only going to make these worse.

[Felya]

The fact so many are already looking to blame others shows no one has any real confident Biden as a strong candidate. Which isn't surprising at all. Even now Biden isn't being a Leader and he is the presumptive nominee. I don't know what Biden is doing, but it isn't being a leader.

Bullshit! Trump is literally trolling Biden supporters to not vote. You expect people to ignore that? You expect people to believe those supporting Trump for 3 years, to suddenly become Bernie supporters? How?

Lastly I don't care what you believe or any of the Democratic cronies, but a Vote not for Biden isn't a Vote for Trump. It is the height of self aggrandizement to belief your candidate deserves every Non-vote or 3rd party vote. That's not how elections work, and it never has been.

Does Trump winning as result, is how elections work? Is you going farther away from your ideology, based on personal indignation justified? Because my guess the reason why Trump is encouraging trolls to seed this conflict, isn’t because he doesn’t understand how politics works.

I know we are supposed to supposed help the poor in spirit, but would you mind actually voting for Biden, so Trump doesn’t remove more of their social nets? I know your ego and principles are important, but it might be time to think about someone other than your self.

[Felya]

Honestly, there a decent chance Biden could lose both the Popular Vote and the Electoral vote, but the fact you even brought it up the popular vote says a lot.

Yes, will of the people versus the establishment vote... it should say a lot, while you complain about candidates not being virtuous enough.

Hillary was a bad candidate because she had no enthusiasm.

I see... issues don’t mater... it’s feelings of enthusiasm. Fictional lack of enthusiasm, since she did garner 3 million more votes...

[Felya]

Perhaps if you took what I said in context of what I replying to you wouldn't have to ask such fruitless questions. I won't reply to that, because it has nothing to do with why it was even mentioned.

I think the fact that you responded to nothing, including the thing you needed to tell me is nothing, is exactly my point. This is all based on emotion... not helping people... not any altruistic claims candidates you will vote for support. You don’t actually care... this is a facade...

- - - Updated - - -

Oh please we are on a Sub-forum for a declining MMO. This isn't' some grand conspiracy from Trump. What is it is Trump a moron or is he an evil mastermind. He can't be both. You all act as if Trump is capable of Playing Chess when I think he'd struggle with Tic-Tac-Toe.

What conspiracy? He tells people to do it on his Twitter... you can go check... wtf? Oh and yeah... you can’t defend your principles even on a stupid gaming forum... I’d hate to see how you do with a more sophisticated or establishment crowed than us... the stupid serfs...

[Felya]

That not how the popular vote vs electoral college works. The Electoral College was made specifically to fight against popular vote mob mentality. People don't want to see Rural Americans as a Minority because most of them are white, but by definition Rural America is a Minority and the Electoral College is meant to help balance the scales of those who live in the cities with those who live in the fields that support the cities. Hell even now Rural America is disregarded by the Media, and the DNC and you all stay shocked they continue to support the one party that pretends to give a damn.

That’s fantastic... having troubles dealing with Hilary getting more votes and establishment voting Trump? Where is your will of the people? Where is your democratic socialism? I thought your bullshit was all about people fighting the establishment, now you need to defend Trump’s win, even though I am talking about enthusiasm you claim Hilary lacked? Electoral vote doesn’t measure that... what happened? Where did you anti establishment go?

- - - Updated - - -

Twitter isn't real life, and never will be. It is a cesspool of people screaming into the void who do nothing but try and own one another with memes.

Great defense... we went from it being a conspiracy theory, to the president of US using his twitter to encourage fracturing his opponents, isn’t real life... 2/10...

[Theodarzna]

Oh please we are on a Sub-forum for a declining MMO. This isn't' some grand conspiracy from Trump. What is it is Trump a moron or is he an evil mastermind. He can't be both. You all act as if Trump is capable of Playing Chess when I think he'd struggle with Tic-Tac-Toe.

In the end, what these people want is as I described earlier, they are arguing two conflicting positions.

Position One: The Democratic Party is of course an incrementalist, centrist, and Neo-Liberal party and Universal Healthcare is just too radical and you are being a purist for expecting your policy goals to ever get enacted in your own lifetime.

Position Two: You must be as excited and enthusiastic about the Democratic Party as if it WERE enacting these policies and to point out that the Democratic Party is essentially a centrist, market oriented, Neo-Liberalism is evil divisive psyops by Putin or Trump, or Voldemort.

On the one hand Socialists are being ridiculous for expecting actual policy programs, but also its evil that Socialists aren't enthusiastic and fanatically loyal to the Democratic Party as if it were giving those policies; OH! And don't point out yourself anything said in position one because that is what is stoking divisions!

Nothing about their position makes any sense. It is gaslighting and akin to an abusive boyfriend demanding you not expect much of him, but also love him as if he were Gods gift to you.

[Themius]

Yes, will of the people versus the establishment vote... it should say a lot, while you complain about candidates not being virtuous enough.



I see... issues don’t mater... it’s feelings of enthusiasm. Fictional lack of enthusiasm, since she did garner 3 million more votes...

People who say that her enthusiasm was a problem, are themselves a problem. They have the mentality of a Trump voter. "I like his personality!" I want policies... it seems like Americans are concerned with policies as a secondary issue.

[cubby]

What Establishment are you talking about voted for Trump?. Are the people in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin "Establishment".


Defending Trump win, is a matter of Principle, because Trump played the game and won the Electoral College. The Democrats are the ones who constantly cry about the Electoral College after they lose. Perhaps Democrats should stop running their Presidential Campaigns as if they are reliant on the popular vote and play within the rules outlined in the Constitution.

Wow, more of your lies - the people of america, who appreciate the idea that one person should have one vote in deciding our leaders, have always pushed to get rid of the Electoral College, regardless of who wins the election (yes, even when Obama won, both times, we wanted the EC gone).

Interestingly, the only way the GOP wins the White House, at least over the past 30ish years (Bush2 reelection is the only asterix), is through the EC.

But please, keep on with your misinformation campaign - it's adorable watching you flail around in a sea of falsehoods.

[unfilteredJW]

In the end, what these people want is as I described earlier, they are arguing two conflicting positions.

Position One: The Democratic Party is of course an incrementalist, centrist, and Neo-Liberal party and Universal Healthcare is just too radical and you are being a purist for expecting your policy goals to ever get enacted in your own lifetime.

Position Two: You must be as excited and enthusiastic about the Democratic Party as if it WERE enacting these policies and to point out that the Democratic Party is essentially a centrist, market oriented, Neo-Liberalism is evil divisive psyops by Putin or Trump, or Voldemort.

On the one hand Socialists are being ridiculous for expecting actual policy programs, but also its evil that Socialists aren't enthusiastic and fanatically loyal to the Democratic Party as if it were giving those policies; OH! And don't point out yourself anything said in position one because that is what is stoking divisions!

Nothing about their position makes any sense. It is gaslighting and akin to an abusive boyfriend demanding you not expect much of him, but also love him as if he were Gods gift to you.

I'll take "Things happening only in Theo's head" for 1000 Alex.

[Machismo]

You are extremely disingenuous in your name calling has no bearing on anything. You lash out and name call anyone who seems to disagree with your preconceived notions. .

We have been spending Trillions of dollars including nearly 5 trillion dollar slush fund for the treasury. (bUt HoW ArE We gOinG tO PaY fOr iT?)
We've had the money for decades, but we lack the political will from people who live comfortable and don't see the benefits of Universal Health Care, College, and more. We are now in talks about bailing out the oil giants because the cost of oil went below 0.

People who go into a fight expected to lose will come up with excuses before the fight. The fact so many are already looking to blame others shows no one has any real confident Biden as a strong candidate. Which isn't surprising at all. Even now Biden isn't being a Leader and he is the presumptive nominee. I don't know what Biden is doing, but it isn't being a leader.

Lastly I don't care what you believe or any of the Democratic cronies, but a Vote not for Biden isn't a Vote for Trump. It is the height of self aggrandizement to belief your candidate deserves every Non-vote or 3rd party vote. That's not how elections work, and it never has been.

You think I care if your feelings are hurt? I don't. I have no problem insulting people, that doesn't make me disingenuous. Hell, that makes me more genuine, because I don't try and pander to your fucking feelers.

Trump has been spending a shit ton of money, which is why no fiscal conservative should ever support him. it's why his supporters are blatant hypocrites. Here's the thing, they don't care if they are hypocrites, because it was never actually about spending with them... it was always racism, sexism, or simply wanting to piss off the libs.

I'm not the one saying that choosing to not vote for Biden is a vote for Trump. What it is, is a statement that you are not really a Democrat, and that's fine. But, as we've seen, there's quite a few Bernie supporters who are currently shilling for Trump. That doesn't just make them "not Democrats," that makes them Trumpsters. As for people like Theo, they are proven Trumpsters, and are doing nothing more than shitposting to try and get Trump to win. And make no mistake, that is EXACTLY what she wants.

- - - Updated - - -

In the end, what these people want is as I described earlier, they are arguing two conflicting positions.

Position One: The Democratic Party is of course an incrementalist, centrist, and Neo-Liberal party and Universal Healthcare is just too radical and you are being a purist for expecting your policy goals to ever get enacted in your own lifetime.

Position Two: You must be as excited and enthusiastic about the Democratic Party as if it WERE enacting these policies and to point out that the Democratic Party is essentially a centrist, market oriented, Neo-Liberalism is evil divisive psyops by Putin or Trump, or Voldemort.

On the one hand Socialists are being ridiculous for expecting actual policy programs, but also its evil that Socialists aren't enthusiastic and fanatically loyal to the Democratic Party as if it were giving those policies; OH! And don't point out yourself anything said in position one because that is what is stoking divisions!

Nothing about their position makes any sense. It is gaslighting and akin to an abusive boyfriend demanding you not expect much of him, but also love him as if he were Gods gift to you.

Then, why are you a Trumpster?

[Felya]

What Establishment are you talking about voted for Trump?. Are the people in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin "Establishment".

No, that’s the popular vote. The electoral vote is made by people selected by politicians. As in, the establishment selection. The popular selection, was Hilary. When you talk Americans, we voted Hilary as a whole. When you talk about establishment officials voting on behalf of the state, they voted Trump. In fact, at lest 3 in WA alone, went against popular vote and voted someone other than Hilary... strange be that... how many did that against Trump?

Defending Trump win, is a matter of Principle, because Trump played the game and won the Electoral College. The Democrats are the ones who constantly cry about the Electoral College after they lose. Perhaps Democrats should stop running their Presidential Campaigns as if they are reliant on the popular vote and play within the rules outlined in the Constitution.

Yeah, defending Trump’s is a mater of principle... what happened to that democratic socialism?

- - - Updated - - -

You act is if those two are mutually exclusive when they clearly don't have to be.

They don’t have to be... so stop acting like you support Bernie.

Hillary lacked enthusiasm. I don't see how that is even debatable. Her winning the popular vote doesn't mean the lack of enthusiasm meant less people voting in 2016. People stayed home, because they didn't want to vote for Trump or Hillary.

You don’t see the 3 million more that voted for her? Is that bias?

Also if you all would stop bring 2016 up, and even Bernie, as this is a thread about the 2020 General Election. If someone brings up something bad about Biden, going after Bernie or how good Hillary was *wasn't* in 2016 adds nothing.

I’m sorry, your unsubstantiated claims will not be going ignored. No matter how much you demand it...

[xenogear3]

Why was Hilary a bad candidate? ...without the word “feelings”... Do you think Trump will be the first President to lose the popular vote twice?

She is a typical politician. She say anything to get elected. She will not do anything after elected.
If you are happy with the current state, vote her.

Lots of people are not happy with the current state, especially the globalization and jobless recovery, etc.

We really don't know the true motivation of Trump.
He doesn't hate globalization. He just wants to get a good deal from China.

[Machismo]

It is less genuine because you don't even acknowledge opinions other than your own can be legitimate. I know people have nothing to meaningfully add when all they do is deflect by calling people supporters of the bad boogeyman. You can try and shame and fear people into voting for a preferred candidate. It didn't work in 2016, but hey it could work.

Except, I have back up that claim on multiple occasions, with her own posts and threads. The same goes for her plagiarism.

I'm calling her out for being a fucking liar, and I have proven it time and time again.

Also, since you don't seem to grasp this very simple concept, I'l lay it out for you:

I. AM. NOT. A. DEMOCRAT.

It didn't work out for me in 2016, nor in 2012, nor in 2008. But, then again, I'm a libertarian, so it will never work out for us. I'm fine with that, because I'd rather be right, than win.

[Felya]

It is less genuine because you don't even acknowledge opinions other than your own can be legitimate. I know people have nothing to meaningfully add when all they do is deflect by calling people supporters of the bad boogeyman. You can try and shame and fear people into voting for a preferred candidate. It didn't work in 2016, but hey it could work.

Stop... the goals are different between you and him. The options present is not the issue. He believes that 4 more years of Trump, will only hurt the people you claim to care about, while you prefer to vote with your indignation. If both of your goals was to help those you and Bernie claim to care about, there is only one voting option.

[Theodarzna]

It is less genuine because you don't even acknowledge opinions other than your own can be legitimate. I know people have nothing to meaningfully add when all they do is deflect by calling people supporters of the bad boogeyman. You can try and shame and fear people into voting for a preferred candidate. It didn't work in 2016, but hey it could work.

I'd ask Machismo for citations on that claim, but humiliating him a second time seems cruel.