1. #1121
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    57,655
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Saying you will vote for someone is hardly an endorsement.
    Trying to convince liberals that helping Trump is the progressive thing to do, is getting harder and harder.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  2. #1122
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    31,064
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Trying to convince liberals that helping Trump is the progressive thing to do, is getting harder and harder.
    Thank you. That's going to keep going for awhile.

    The Russian Troll Farm attempts to convince people that Bernie fucking Sanders supporters would rather vote for Trump than Biden will be a hysterical footnote in the otherwise brutal annals of this time period of history.

  3. #1123
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    Ocasio-Cortez, who said she would like to see the former vice president take a more progressive stance on certain issues, was reluctant to say in an interview whether she planned to back Biden in the coming election.

    “We’ll see,” Ocasio-Cortez said when pressed about endorsing the former vice president then.



    Which is pretty much what most Sanders supporters have been doing, and for which we get these hilarious outraged comments on mmoc by the cookie-cutter liberals.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Yeah that's because they know if there's free expression and open-debate their ideas won't be able to win. What do you do when your policy ideas fail?
    Sanders' policies remain the most popular policies among americans to this day.

    Which is why Biden should be pulled more to the left before the elections begin. It would mean more people voting for him.
    - The One and Only, the Legendary, the Mighty - You might recognize me from the forum signatures of lesser mortals obsessed with me. -
    Vexing little man-babies and normies on the internet since before you were born.

  4. #1124
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    57,655
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    Ocasio-Cortez, who said she would like to see the former vice president take a more progressive stance on certain issues, was reluctant to say in an interview whether she planned to back Biden in the coming election.

    “We’ll see,” Ocasio-Cortez said when pressed about endorsing the former vice president then.



    Which is pretty much what most Sanders supporters have been doing, and for which we get these hilarious outraged comments on mmoc by the cookie-cutter liberals.
    Try this, from the article:

    ”In November, I’m going to be voting for Joe Biden,” she responded. “But that’s what I’m going to be doing.”

    “So, is this the first time you said you voting for Biden?” Fat Joe asked.

    “I mean, I’ve been saying this whole time that we got to support the Democratic nominee,” she said, but she added: “This is the time where I’m saying it declaratively like this.
    The question is... why the need to downplay it? This is normal Theo, you haven’t seen outraged... lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    Sanders' policies remain the most popular policies among americans to this day.

    Which is why Biden should be pulled more to the left before the elections begin. It would mean more people voting for him.
    Why didn’t more people vote Sanders in two primaries in a row? What is your measuring tool for popularity?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  5. #1125
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Why didn’t more people vote Sanders in two primaries in a row? What is your measuring tool for popularity?
    From what I recall when americans are polled about policies they'll majorly end up preferring Sanders' policies.

    There has always been a huge discrepancy between the policies people prefer and the politicians they elect.

    This gets reported on ad nauseum: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/majo...e-college.html

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    The question is... why the need to downplay it?
    There is nothing to downplay. I don't particularly understand people's objections either when we are asking for Biden to take on some more progressive and popular policies.

    Progressives endorsing Biden isn't an issue for me.

    I only have one remark to that: Don't ignore the anger of the common man. People's dissatisfaction with centrist policies is at an all time high and it doesn't look like it'll improve anytime soon.

    And anger is irrational, which makes it very easy to understand why someone would vote Trump over Biden - even as a center-left voter.
    Last edited by Yas-Queen Rochana; 2020-04-24 at 07:55 AM.
    - The One and Only, the Legendary, the Mighty - You might recognize me from the forum signatures of lesser mortals obsessed with me. -
    Vexing little man-babies and normies on the internet since before you were born.

  6. #1126
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    California
    Posts
    19,857
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Thank you. That's going to keep going for awhile.

    The Russian Troll Farm attempts to convince people that Bernie fucking Sanders supporters would rather vote for Trump than Biden will be a hysterical footnote in the otherwise brutal annals of this time period of history.
    But it seems like you could make that argument about any political divide these days. Where everything that is left-wing or right-wing and opposed to liberalism must be a result of geopolitical brainwashing and not because lefties legitimately don't want to support someone who could entrench the economic status quo just to make sure that gay people feel safe for the next 4-8 years.
    Optimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  7. #1127
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    But it seems like you could make that argument about any political divide these days. Where everything that is left-wing or right-wing and opposed to liberalism must be a result of geopolitical brainwashing and not because lefties legitimately don't want to support someone who could entrench the economic status quo just to make sure that gay people feel safe for the next 4-8 years.
    If anything I'd argue that the push for a more progressive agenda wouldn't be caused by the Russian government, but simply by the european people who tend to take to the internet and continue to be boggled by how americans vote or approach issues. If Trump had been a west-european politician he'd been removed from office by now, no matter if he controlled the majority of the government or not.

    The protests would've been so persistent that his entire government would end up cock-blocked by the people.

    So this 'outrage' by Democrats against Trump rings hollow to me. If they're not willing to protest as loudly as they complain about it in the media (old media or social media) then... what's the point?
    - The One and Only, the Legendary, the Mighty - You might recognize me from the forum signatures of lesser mortals obsessed with me. -
    Vexing little man-babies and normies on the internet since before you were born.

  8. #1128
    Quote Originally Posted by Fandistol View Post
    Corporate Democrats have billions of dollars of free money behind them from corporations and billions of dollars of free advertising from the media. Sanders had to raise every penny himself.

    If this were a race between two competing products in the business world then that financial advantage would be decisive. Few would even consider the possibility that a start-up could beat a gigantic corporation.

    The Democrat establishment has to be spectacularly useless to let an insurgent like Sanders into the race in the first place. It shouldn't be surprising that they eventually managed to win that contest.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Your political understanding is very unsophisticated.

    Trump is the result of a generation of Democrats abandoning the working-class and voting for corporate candidates.

    It is reasonable to ask whether voting for the least worst candidate is a sane way to continue, given that strategy has worked against the Democrats and the nation for decades now.
    If Trump is the result of a generation of Democrats abandoning the working class, for corporate candidates, which is FUCKING IRONIC BTW, why did he lose the popular vote?

  9. #1129
    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    If Trump is the result of a generation of Democrats abandoning the working class, for corporate candidates, which is FUCKING IRONIC BTW, why did he lose the popular vote?
    Well a better description is the white ''working'' class rednecks.
    Reason why I wrote working like that is because I'm not sure how any working person has the time to go to a Trump rally.

  10. #1130
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    Well a better description is the white ''working'' class rednecks.
    Reason why I wrote working like that is because I'm not sure how any working person has the time to go to a Trump rally.
    Well Trump is going all in on the working class redneck sector.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-tie...012626397.html

    Title: Trump ties coronavirus outbreak to Democratic state leadership, potentially jeopardizing federal aid

    Excerpts:

    President Trump on Thursday suggested there was a correlation between Democratic leadership of states and the scope of the coronavirus outbreak, hinting that he may support the withholding of federal aid to governors seeking to respond to the pandemic.
    I expected the virus to be politicized, just not so blatantly and not so early in the election season. This is quite an intense escalation.

    On Wednesday, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., derided the notion of “blue-state bailouts,” suggesting that states would be better served by declaring bankruptcy.
    Apparently the republican party is going all in on this war on blue states.

    Loans from the Paycheck Protection Program, meant to help small businesses that have been forced to close during the pandemic, have been more generously distributed to Republican-led states than to Democratic-controlled ones.
    Interesting that this was so blatantly done that this is now common knowledge.

    All of this is disgusting beyond belief. Ultimately, the damage to the US in both the short run and long run will be quite noticeable.

    It also is not surprising in the least. I just expected republicans to be a bit less obvious about their complete and total hatred for blue states.

  11. #1131
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    Well a better description is the white ''working'' class rednecks.
    Reason why I wrote working like that is because I'm not sure how any working person has the time to go to a Trump rally.
    Are you Fandistol? Cuz even I can't see the response from him to you.

  12. #1132
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    57,655
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    From what I recall when americans are polled about policies they'll majorly end up preferring Sanders' policies.
    Your link shows a disparity, what they called a contradiction, because they support those policy under the guise of the free market. They don’t support the Bernie version, but the Biden version. They support the theory, but don’t support Bernie’s proposed execution.

    There has always been a huge discrepancy between the policies people prefer and the politicians they elect.
    Because you are ignoring the part about free market. The “socialist” part of Bernie’s version, is what costs him the support on the issue it self.

    This gets reported on ad nauseum: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/majo...e-college.html
    Why did their results show higher support for medicare for all, but lower support for government control of healthcare? Now, what could it possibly be about Bernie, that Biden doesn’t have, that would lead to less votes for Bernie? Based on the article you linked, could it be the government control that Bernie boasted about and Biden is less thrilled about?

    So... does the majority really support Bernie version of these issues or the “let’s see how much it costs” Biden version? Based on your article and knowing the primary results... what conclusion can you draw? What is it about Bernie that halted agreement on the issues?

    There is nothing to downplay. I don't particularly understand people's objections either when we are asking for Biden to take on some more progressive and popular policies.
    There are no objections... you are confusing people telling you it’s not possible in the current congress numbers, with people objecting to them. You are not being rational, but emotional.

    I only have one remark to that: Don't ignore the anger of the common man. People's dissatisfaction with centrist policies is at an all time high and it doesn't look like it'll improve anytime soon.
    This doesn’t mean anything... you have a demand, but it’s completely intangible and even the players are undefined. A fascist and a communist will hate centrist, how do you appease all 3 for them not to feeeeeeeeeeeeeel ignored? Authoritarianism? Outlaw the word “feel”, then no one will be ignored for saying they feel something is wrong?

    And anger is irrational, which makes it very easy to understand why someone would vote Trump over Biden - even as a center-left voter.
    Yeah, I’m so angry at the little guy being ignored, let me vote for an oligarch with a quarter billion loan do to China in 2022. That’s not irrational, it’s absurd and will take a lot of convincing.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  13. #1133
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    23,633
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    From what I recall when americans are polled about policies they'll majorly end up preferring Sanders' policies.

    There has always been a huge discrepancy between the policies people prefer and the politicians they elect.

    This gets reported on ad nauseum: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/majo...e-college.html
    What I guess is the mistaken thinking of the new reply guy, is that the Dem primary contains the entire electorate that isn't Republicans. For the most part the Dem primary is a narrow contest; dominated by party brand partisans, far more influenced by machine politics and patronage networks (See Jim Clyburn) and Sanders appeal was in the General Electorate, so he won big with non-Democrats. But non-Democrats aren't fanatically invested in the Dem primary or even necessarily able to vote in it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    Tankie Paleo-Conservatism with TERF characteristics / Socialism with My Chemical Romance characteristics. Caramelldansen Nationalism. Liberalism is the Pandemic. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. When that Polka hits!. Ceterum et dare nobis duo milia dollariorum!

  14. #1134
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Your link shows a disparity, what they called a contradiction, because they support those policy under the guise of the free market. They don’t support the Bernie version, but the Biden version. They support the theory, but don’t support Bernie’s proposed execution.
    This is one topic where polling is irrelevant besides the fact that Americans want Universal health care. For example polling shows the ACA is more popular than Obamacare and explaining it is more popular than both, most Americans are morons on this topic. That's really the flaw with democrats pitching Americans are far too stupid it would actually be best to not tell them anything and just do it then people will learn to like it once implemented.

  15. #1135
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    57,655
    Quote Originally Posted by Fandistol View Post
    Corporate Democrats have billions of dollars of free money behind them from corporations and billions of dollars of free advertising from the media. Sanders had to raise every penny himself.
    Biden had less money than Bernie:
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/joe-b...185002590.html
    So far, Sanders has been the dominant fundraiser. The Vermont senator has raised more than twice as much as the former Vice President, according to Federal Election Commission data, through the end of January. For the month of February, the Sanders campaign announced a “hulking February haul” of $46.5 million. Vice President Biden recently said he’d raised upwards of $17 million that month.
    Want to try again?

    If this were a race between two competing products in the business world then that financial advantage would be decisive. Few would even consider the possibility that a start-up could beat a gigantic corporation.
    Oh, so... if things were different, then Bernie would have won... gotcha...

    The Democrat establishment has to be spectacularly useless to let an insurgent like Sanders into the race in the first place. It shouldn't be surprising that they eventually managed to win that contest.
    Bernie has caucused with Democrats since the 80s... hardly an insurgent... it’s like calling Trump a middle class president. Reality is different than rhetoric...

    Trump is the result of a generation of Democrats abandoning the working-class and voting for corporate candidates.
    Trump is literally a corporation... a NYC oligarch... while Hilary busted her ass from middle class. Yet, you had the gull to bitch about other’s political prowess... how is that possible?

    It is reasonable to ask whether voting for the least worst candidate is a sane way to continue, given that strategy has worked against the Democrats and the nation for decades now.
    I’m sorry... Obama was President for more of that decade than Trump... wtf are you talking about? Democrats took back the house fairly recently... this doesn’t make any sense...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fandistol View Post
    There was a small but significant percentage of working-class voters who were opposed to globalization. These people found Trump's positions on TPP very attractive. The media and the corporate democrats like to pretend this wasn't a factor, but it was absolutely critical.
    No... they got convinced that TPP and NAFTA are evil job stealing, as if corporations leaving the US without any regulation, was the superior option. What was happening in Michigan before these deals, through the 80s? What compensation were corporations sending the US, as they moved out of US under Reagan?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  16. #1136
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    31,064
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    But it seems like you could make that argument about any political divide these days. Where everything that is left-wing or right-wing and opposed to liberalism must be a result of geopolitical brainwashing and not because lefties legitimately don't want to support someone who could entrench the economic status quo just to make sure that gay people feel safe for the next 4-8 years.
    No, you really couldn't. You can't generalize any of those things you suggest. Your summary of the situation isn't correct, but you know that, you just won't accept it. In the case of Sanders supporters sliding over to Trump, it's a "beyond ridiculous" idea to even consider - the worst case Sanders' peeps would do is not vote. Which is a de facto vote for Trump, but not a direct one.

  17. #1137
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    57,655
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    What I guess is the mistaken thinking of the new reply guy, is that the Dem primary contains the entire electorate that isn't Republicans. For the most part the Dem primary is a narrow contest; dominated by party brand partisans, far more influenced by machine politics and patronage networks (See Jim Clyburn) and Sanders appeal was in the General Electorate, so he won big with non-Democrats. But non-Democrats aren't fanatically invested in the Dem primary or even necessarily able to vote in it.
    Your arguing that republicans would have voted more for Bernie? Based on what? Trump literally telling them to, to stop Biden?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  18. #1138
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    What I guess is the mistaken thinking of the new reply guy, is that the Dem primary contains the entire electorate that isn't Republicans. For the most part the Dem primary is a narrow contest; dominated by party brand partisans, far more influenced by machine politics and patronage networks (See Jim Clyburn) and Sanders appeal was in the General Electorate, so he won big with non-Democrats. But non-Democrats aren't fanatically invested in the Dem primary or even necessarily able to vote in it.
    Well, when you keep getting caught lying, plagiarizing, and pushing disingenuous bullshit, don't be surprised when people call you out for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  19. #1139
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    But we let you do it all the time.

    You all keep deflecting about Biden's faults at your own peril. This is 2016 all over again, and the one hope is that more Boomers will vote for Biden then those who stayed home with Hillary. It's clear Biden doesn't give a damn about the Youth or Hispanic vote at this point. Good luck with the Suburban vote and hoping that to cerry Biden into Office. It didn't work 4 years ago, but it might be enough in 2020.
    Biden is a creepy old dude, and represents almost none of the political stances I want. I will not be voting for the guy. Then again, I'm also not a liberal or a Democrat, so there's no reason for me to vote for the guy. Theo is a proven Trumpster who is concern trolling, and pretending to totes be a Bernie supporter to muddy the waters.

    Bernie lost, because he is simply not what Democrats want. His plans would cost a shit ton of other people's money, which is something moderates pretend to not want (even though they actually do). In the end, bernie supporters will have to decide what they truly care about. If they want Trump out, they will vote for Biden. If they want to piss off the Democrats, they will stay home, or they will vote for Trump... making them true Trumpsters. Now, if they are not Democrats, then they need to stop bitching and moaning that the Democrats aren't listening to them. Bernie voters are clearly unreliable, so it seems foolish to bet your future on them.

    I'm not lying, I'm not plagiarizing, and I'm not pushing disingenuous bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  20. #1140
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    57,655
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    You all keep deflecting about Biden's faults at your own peril. This is 2016 all over again, and the one hope is that more Boomers will vote for Biden then those who stayed home with Hillary. It's clear Biden doesn't give a damn about the Youth or Hispanic vote at this point. Good luck with the Suburban vote and hoping that to carry Biden into Office. It didn't work 4 years ago, but it might be enough in 2020.
    Why was Hilary a bad candidate? ...without the word “feelings”... Do you think Trump will be the first President to lose the popular vote twice?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •