Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[TrollHunter3000]

I'll accept this and the rest as you simply have no intention of engaging in what I said.



Sure, but lets say the Democrats run an Anti-Abortion candidate who is pro-UBI and pro-Universal Healthcare? Would the same logic of "Other issues matter?" still apply.



At this point I am wondering if Leftists ever get what they want.

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So proud of her work that she held a voice vote to avoid anyone being on record one way or another for that vote.

The rest of what you said has more to do with financial support and not about voting. Which, like I said, is a separate issue.

I'm not sure what your point is. Obviously the same logic applies. My entire point is that if you support Sanders, you should prefer Biden win over Trump and you're doing no good to anyone who supports Biden or Sanders by not voting for Biden because it's doubtful that the democratic platform doesn't align more closely to you than whatever the fuck Trump's platform is. The candidate who 100% aligns with you may not even exist and if they do they may never win a primary. That candidate may strongly appeal to a large, but minority, portion of the centrist/left leaning population so why would they ever want to focus on moving in that direction? They main gain that support but lose even more support elsewhere.

Just sounds like a no-win for you no matter what but at the very least you could have less devastating loss by actually helping get Trump out of office.

[Edge-]

So proud of her work that she held a voice vote to avoid anyone being on record one way or another for that vote.

Which vote are we talking about, specifically? The first and I believe only voice vote? I'm fine functionally treating every member of Congress as a "yay" for a voice vote like that. Especially given that, like, you know, she appears to be the one leading her parties efforts with the bills. It's not exactly a secret that the Speaker of the House, in charge of the majority party, would be in support of legislation that passes the House for the most part.

Names have been on other votes, most recently with AOC joining a few Republicans in voting against the latest round of funding, sot that's a particularly weak attempt at an attack.

[Lenonis]

So while you acknowledge that Sanders is an outsider and maybe his policy and programs don't belong, you still have the audacity to expect voters in favor of those policies to vote with eager enthusiasm for a party that told them to fuck off.

except for the part where I've consistently stated he should just join the party. You can go join breadisfunny in the "purposely misunderstanding" corner

[Theodarzna]

The rest of what you said has more to do with financial support and not about voting. Which, like I said, is a separate issue.

I'm not sure what your point is. Obviously the same logic applies. My entire point is that if you support Sanders, you should prefer Biden win over Trump and you're doing no good to anyone who supports Biden or Sanders by not voting for Biden because it's doubtful that the democratic platform doesn't align more closely to you than whatever the fuck Trump's platform is. The candidate who 100% aligns with you may not even exist and if they do they may never win a primary. That candidate may strongly appeal to a large, but minority, portion of the centrist/left leaning population so why would they ever want to focus on moving in that direction? They main gain that support but lose even more support elsewhere.

Just sounds like a no-win for you no matter what but at the very least you could have less devastating loss by actually helping get Trump out of office.

Well, without lots of money, your other means of power and leverage is also your vote. Preferring a person to win, doesn't imply voting for that person, or even caring about the election. And a platform, as many have pointed out, is meaningless; they aren't obligated to follow it. How does one get anything? By saying they won't buy into something if they don't get what is acceptable.

If they don't need those voters than who gives a crap if they all rebel or not? If you've got a majority than why kvetch and complain about some insurrection on the Left?

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except for the part where I've consistently stated he should just join the party. You can go join breadisfunny in the "purposely misunderstanding" corner

Why join the party? It's just a hat, it literally means nothing and if his policies aren't welcome than the party isn't worth joining.

[JohnBrown1917]

Sure, but appealing to them too much could make them less appealing for a larger portion of the democratic base.

So they will have to accept that they can't get everybody with them.

[TrollHunter3000]

Well, without lots of money, your other means of power and leverage is also your vote. Preferring a person to win, doesn't imply voting for that person, or even caring about the election. And a platform, as many have pointed out, is meaningless; they aren't obligated to follow it. How does one get anything? By saying they won't buy into something if they don't get what is acceptable.

If they don't need those voters than who gives a crap if they all rebel or not? If you've got a majority than why kvetch and complain about some insurrection on the Left?

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Why join the party? It's just a hat, it literally means nothing and if his policies aren't welcome than the party isn't worth joining.

Having a majority of their base helps the candidate win their primary but not the general election if the opposing candidate has a greater majority of their base actually coming out to vote.

There's no logical defense for saying you support Sanders but refuse to vote for Biden in the general election. Absolutely none.

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So they will have to accept that they can't get everybody with them.

And you'd rather help someone else win even though they're less aligned with what you support?

[Theodarzna]

Sure, but appealing to them too much could make them less appealing for a larger portion of the democratic base.

To this, I'll let your own video explain that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dfYcQ_r_x8

If its fine to ignore and shuck voters aside to placate a group, and you don't need them then why kvetch that they are saying "To hell with this?", Leftists voters aren't bonded by some feudal burden unto the party.

[Theodarzna]

Having a majority of their base helps the candidate win their primary but not the general election if the opposing candidate has a greater majority of their base actually coming out to vote.

There's no logical defense for saying you support Sanders but refuse to vote for Biden in the general election. Absolutely none.

I've yet to see a logical case for Biden, not one that actually emphasizes why one should vote for him that isn't predicated on the existence of someone else who might be marginally worse.

Most of Sanders biggest supporters aren't registered Democrats as the primary shows. As Biden has said "Nothing will fundamentally change" and he has tapped Larry Sommers as his econ advisor. If one needed a greater blaring message that Biden is telling Sanders voters to go fuck themselves Idk what else they would need to say to send that message.

[TrollHunter3000]

To this, I'll let your own video explain that.


If its fine to ignore and shuck voters aside to placate a group, and you don't need them then why kvetch that they are saying "To hell with this?", Leftists voters aren't bonded by some feudal burden unto the party.

You seem to lack understanding. Why would they shift in policy to gain the support of 10 people if it would cause them to lose support of 100? If what you support just isn't popular enough with the rest of the party, or any other political party, then the candidate who aligns with your views won't win anyway. You'd rather choose to not help a different candidate who may align with you partially win over someone who doesn't align with you at all. That's what doesn't make sense.

I understand your argument that if they want yours and others support they should have a candidate that appeals to you but if that candidate then appeals less to MORE people because of that, they would never win.

And the reality is that in the general election it's either Biden or Trump. So, why not support the candidate that more closely aligns with your views?

[Orbitus]

I'd ask Machismo for citations on that claim, but humiliating him a second time seems cruel.

You haven't humiliated him a first time, so bring on the citations.

[Theodarzna]

New Evidence Supporting Credibility of Tara Reade’s Allegation Against Joe Biden Emerges

A new piece of evidence has emerged buttressing the credibility of Tara Reade’s claim that she told her mother about allegations of sexual harassment and assault related to her former boss, then-Sen. Joe Biden. Biden, through a spokesperson, has denied the allegations. Reade has claimed to various media outlets, including The Intercept, that she told her mother, a close friend, and her brother about both the harassment and, to varying degrees of detail, the assault at the time. Her brother, Collin Moulton, and her friend, who has asked to remain anonymous, both confirmed that they heard about the allegations from Reade at the time. Reade’s mother died in 2016, but both her brother and friend also confirmed Reade had told her mother, and that her mother, a longtime feminist and activist, urged her to go to the police.

In interviews with The Intercept, Reade also mentioned that her mother had made a phone call to “Larry King Live” on CNN, during which she made reference to her daughter’s experience on Capitol Hill. Reade told The Intercept that her mother called in asking for advice after Reade, then in her 20s, left Biden’s office. “I remember it being an anonymous call and her saying my daughter was sexually harassed and retaliated against and fired, where can she go for help? I was mortified,” Reade told me.

Reade couldn’t remember the date or the year of the phone call, and King didn’t include the names of callers on his show. I was unable to find the call, but mentioned it in an interview with Katie Halper, the podcast host who first aired Reade’s allegation. After the podcast aired, a listener managed to find the call and sent it to The Intercept.

[SNIP]

(source)

So In late summer of 1993, the month Tara Reade was removed from Biden's office, an anonymous woman called the Larry King show saying her daughter had problems at a senator's office but did not want to go to the press about it. The woman was Reade's now deceased mother. We have the transcript as well, and confirmation from a politico reporter that the video clips flouting around (Which I linked) are Reade's mother. This also helps because its impossible to invent the mom's story after the fact.



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You haven't humiliated him a first time, so bring on the citations.

His attempts to claim he had proof I was a Trump voter, alas, to date nobody has actually presented evidence of that. Though definitely proof I don't love Hillary Clinton.

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You seem to lack understanding. Why would they shift in policy to gain the support of 10 people if it would cause them to lose support of 100? If what you support just isn't popular enough with the rest of the party, or any other political party, then the candidate who aligns with your views won't win anyway. You'd rather choose to not help a different candidate who may align with you partially win over someone who doesn't align with you at all. That's what doesn't make sense.

I understand your argument that if they want yours and others support they should have a candidate that appeals to you but if that candidate then appeals less to MORE people because of that, they would never win.

And the reality is that in the general election it's either Biden or Trump. So, why not support the candidate that more closely aligns with your views?

Why should those 10 people support someone who has contempt for them and has stated "I don't need you" as your words strongly suggest?

[Orbitus]

Yeah she did actually, he does come across as very dogmatic and sub-intellectual, it was an obvious mismatch.

Go make another account, because I have seen both of these people spar before, and Theo pretty much always loses.

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New Evidence Supporting Credibility of Tara Reade’s Allegation Against Joe Biden Emerges


(source)

So In late summer of 1993, the month Tara Reade was removed from Biden's office, an anonymous woman called the Larry King show saying her daughter had problems at a senator's office but did not want to go to the press about it. The woman was Reade's now deceased mother. We have the transcript as well, and confirmation from a politico reporter that the video clips flouting around (Which I linked) are Reade's mother. This also helps because its impossible to invent the mom's story after the fact.



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His attempts to claim he had proof I was a Trump voter, alas, to date nobody has actually presented evidence of that. Though definitely proof I don't love Hillary Clinton.

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Why should those 10 people support someone who has contempt for them and has stated "I don't need you" as your words strongly suggest?

And yet, those "new revelations" are nothing in comparison to her own Twitter feed. Even her friends are like, nah, she is just seeking attention.

[Theodarzna]

Go make another account, because I have seen both of these people spar before, and Theo pretty much always loses.

Me winning or losing said matches I suspect depends entirely on ones partisan lens. Which is understandable, but sad I guess.

[Theodarzna]

And yet, those "new revelations" are nothing in comparison to her own Twitter feed. Even her friends are like, nah, she is just seeking attention.

Your opinions on rape allegations sure have shifted since Christine Blaisy Ford.

You went from the man who said:

And you are part of the problem why women don't report their rapes.

In response to someone saying Christine Blaisy Fords accusation was fake.... Heck you also said:

So, you can just dismiss them just like that? Typical Trump supporter.

In response to someone saying that the accusations against Kavannaugh were fake.

Heck, Ryann Grim broke the Christine Blaisy Ford story too. I wonder why you trusted this reporter then but not now? Huh.... Really makes you think, really gets my Noggin' Joggin' you know?

[Orbitus]

Your opinions on rape allegations sure have shifted since Christine Blaisy Ford.

You went from the man who said:


In response to someone saying Christine Blaisy Fords accusation was fake.... Heck you also said:



In response to someone saying that the accusations against Kavannaugh were fake.

Heck, Ryann Grim broke the Christine Blaisy Ford story too. I wonder why you trusted this reporter then but not now? Huh.... Really makes you think, really gets my Noggin' Joggin' you know?

Blasey-Ford has been resolute the entire time with a consistent story. Not Tara Reade. She lied 3 fucking times about why she left politics, she supported Biden, until he announced he was running for President, then she started liking the murderous dictator Putin.

https://medium.com/@eddiekrassenstei...n-e4cb3ee38460

Read that, and if you can say that she is consistent, then you should probably stop fucking posting here.

[jonnysensible]

First, it is debatable whether Trump's platform is actually better or worse than Biden's for progressives.

I mean its a pretty quick debate. Is Trumps platform better or worse than Bidens for progressives? Worse.

See?

[Theodarzna]

I mean its a pretty quick debate. Is Trumps platform better or worse than Bidens for progressives? Worse.

See?

That thinking though is entirely contingent on a view that all problems begin and end with Trump and his election is essentially "When the fire nation attacked!" kinda deal. If Trumps election is because of the sort of Neo-Liberalism championed by Biden then doing more of that (He tapped Larry Sommers as econ advisor for example), will likely lead to a much worse situation later on. So electing Biden is akin to chugging poison to avoid dying of poison.

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Blasey-Ford has been resolute the entire time with a consistent story. Not Tara Reade. She lied 3 fucking times about why she left politics, she supported Biden, until he announced he was running for President, then she started liking the murderous dictator Putin.

https://medium.com/@eddiekrassenstei...n-e4cb3ee38460

Read that, and if you can say that she is consistent, then you should probably stop fucking posting here.

A Medium article versus Ryan Grim, the guy who broke the original Christine Blaisy Ford story? Amazing. I guess Partisanship really does color how one sees the world.

Funny story about the Russia canard against Reade, all of her writings were from a creative writing class she was in. Probably why the Biden campaign stopped harping on that point as a defense. So I ask you, how is she politically motivated? And in what way is your making this claim any different or less blatant partisan hackery/Sycophantic Shilling than Ben Shapiro's Daily Wire claiming the same things about Christine Blaisy Ford? You look like partisan to me.

Heck here is the reporter from the Weinstein Investigation to comment on why we need to hear her out:


Plus, it should be noted that Ryan Grim continues to find corroborating evidence for Reade's claims, as I posted. I don't know, We could argue this is just a completely baseless partisan attack, we could argue that its a scurrilous charge against a Democrat nominee done purely for attention or to wreck his reputation in service of Trump or Putin; but you know, i suspect Old Orbitus might respond with:

And you are part of the problem why women don't report their rapes.

Incidentally, consider this your free lesson in how you save receipts to prove something.

[jonnysensible]

That thinking though is entirely contingent on a view that all problems begin and end with Trump and his election is essentially "When the fire nation attacked!" kinda deal. If Trumps election is because of the sort of Neo-Liberalism championed by Biden then doing more of that (He tapped Larry Sommers as econ advisor for example), will likely lead to a much worse situation later on. So electing Biden is akin to chugging poison to avoid dying of poison.

I mean I think Biden is a poor choice. But lets not pretend hes anything close to Trump. Biden will be Obama 2.0 with domestic drone strikes on boogaloo militias. We know what Trumps platform is, full on looting and paralysing of the state with tide pod chugging and lot of racism.

Biden will likely be a limp dick but Trump is a fucking disaster. You can't seriously say the GOP and Trump are good for progressives. Liberals might suck balls but you have more in common than them than you do with far right presidents.


On this Tara person : What she did or said in the past is unrelated to being raped. If some bird sleeps with a different guy every night and then gets raped one night the previous doesnt fucking matter. If this woman got sexually assualted the fact she said some mad shit a while back is no reason not to take her seriously until its gone through the motions. Anything less is bullshit

[SAY HER NAME]

First, it is debatable whether Trump's platform is actually better or worse than Biden's for progressives. On identity politics issues Biden is probably marginally better, on other issues not so much. The whole reason Trump won in the first was that he managed to co-opt a lot of working class democrat voters who felt abandoned after globalization. On foreign policy I find it really disturbing how some Democrats seem to be arguing for endless war in Afghanistan.
If there was some totemic progressive policy issue which Biden actually committed himself to that would probably be enough to justify voting for him: but so far he has announced literally nothing like that.

Has Trump or the GOP done anything for workers so far???

Last I recall they were working v hard to dismantle America's welfare systems specially the ACA without any alternative at hand. They were doing away with regulations that limited predatory lending.

If you don't want to vote for Biden and call yourself a progressive thats fine you may have your own reasons its okay to be wrong whatever. But its some serious BS that the difference between Trump and Biden is only marginal or identity politics.

[Machismo]

I've yet to see a logical case for Biden, not one that actually emphasizes why one should vote for him that isn't predicated on the existence of someone else who might be marginally worse.

Most of Sanders biggest supporters aren't registered Democrats as the primary shows. As Biden has said "Nothing will fundamentally change" and he has tapped Larry Sommers as his econ advisor. If one needed a greater blaring message that Biden is telling Sanders voters to go fuck themselves Idk what else they would need to say to send that message.

He's a pro-business moderate. Now you don't get to plead ignorance any longer.

Thanks in advance for your compliance.

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Yeah I can. GOP and Trump are good for progrssives.

Evidence, please.