Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Thekri]

What's your take on trump watching underage girls getting undressed?

Was that one of the big reasons you chose to support him?

Hey now, why suddenly change topics when he actually answered a question for once? If he is willing to stick with one topic, that should be encouraged. There is no reason to pivot to a completely different reason Trump is discussing, there is plenty of meat on the bones of Trump's foreign policy to discuss (Biden's too for that matter).

[Felya]

Meanwhile, in addition to UAE, Bahrain has just announced a peace agreement with Israel.

While in US, Trump lied, 200000 Americans died.

[beanman12345]

Meanwhile, in addition to UAE, Bahrain has just announced a peace agreement with Israel.

I'm glad you care about Bahrain and Isreal there are good people there, a bit of a shame you don't care about the US though, 200k dead.

[Felya]

3000 Americans died from an attack from terrorists 19 years ago. No american was okay with that at the time. 19 years later ~1000 americans are dying every single day due to the trump virus, and yes I'm calling it the trump virus after recent events from the last couple days, and he might get re-elected...

That was the point in calling in China Virus, it was to get ahead of the obvious narrative... it’s the Trump virus.

Also at forgot... America First...

[Thekri]

Meanwhile, in addition to UAE, Bahrain has just announced a peace agreement with Israel.

Stop calling them Peace Deals. They are recognitions of sovereignty. It is a good thing as it is, stop calling it something it isn't. Bahrain and Israel have never been at war, it isn't a peace deal.

These are actually good achievements, I am skeptical of what it took to get them, but we will see.

[Gaidax]

Stop calling them Peace Deals. They are recognitions of sovereignty. It is a good thing as it is, stop calling it something it isn't. Bahrain and Israel have never been at war, it isn't a peace deal.

These are actually good achievements, I am skeptical of what it took to get them, but we will see.

These are peace deals for intents and purposes.

As Israeli, myself, I think these are HUGE. UAE alone is extremely important because it's actually a country of note and clout in the Arab League - this will be enough for another half dozen states follow their lead next couple of years.

The most important thing with these is a breach of this historical wall of "no normalization without Palestinian solution" narrative Arab League held for so long. Their very recent shut down of vote of protest by Palestinian representatives after UAE announcement shows that.

The importance of this event can not be understated. My understanding is that it is basically a culmination for several years of work done for this.

[D Luniz]

Meanwhile, in addition to UAE, Bahrain has just announced a peace agreement with Israel.

wonder how many F35's we're paying them for it

[Gaidax]

wonder how many F35's we're paying them for it

That's a little price to pay for this historical breakthrough. You wish things like these could be just bought with some F35s.

Besides, you got that one wrong. UAE will be paying you for F35s, not vice versa.

[Felya]

That's a little price to pay for this historical breakthrough. You wish things like these could be just bought with some F35s.

Besides, you got that one wrong. UAE will be paying you for F35s, not vice versa.

What will those F35 be used for?

[Gaidax]

What will those F35 be used for?

As a detriment to Iran, obviously. Ironically, Iran is helping a lot in these secret Israeli-Arab relations. Arab League may not like Israel, but they are pretty much terrified of the rise of Iran and they want to make their alliances and refresh their capabilities.

Not a huge mystery there.

[Felya]

3000 Americans died from an attack from terrorists 19 years ago.

Sorry to double quote, but this particular part... The Trump conspiracy, to defend Trump, claims it was several thousand. They are literally claiming everything is fine, because only a few thousand died.

- - - Updated - - -

As a detriment to Iran, obviously. Ironically, Iran is helping a lot in these secret Israeli-Arab relations. Arab League may not like Israel, but they are pretty much terrified of the rise of Iran and they want to make their alliances and refresh their capabilities.

Not a huge mystery there.

This explains why Trump vetoed congress removing his war powers against Iran.

Edit: It kind of is a mystery... Trump isn’t running on a war with Iran and this was used as part of showing Trump as a peace maker... not a war enabler.

[DocSavageFan]

Biden voting for the initial war in Afghanistan was a mistake, but one based on the facts he had available at the time. Trump was a whole hearted supporter of the war at the time as well, but both have pivoted since. Biden was a senator, Trump was not, but their positions are both a matter of public record, and I disagree with both.

Afghanistan was necessary, Al Queda was operating openly in eastern Afghanistan and was completely shielded by the Taliban government. In the context of the strikes on 9/11, we had no other rational choice, which was recognized by every other nation on the planet. The quagmire that followed is hard to pin on Biden, but the last 4 years of it can definitely be pinned on Trump (While you might count the previous 8 as Biden, he was not President at the time, and is on record as having a less aggressive posture then Obama, including opposing the raid on Bin Laden out of caution).

His role in ISIS? Are you referring to some sort of conspiracy theory I am unaware of? I actually dealt with ISIS as a Soldier, I have no idea why you think Biden is responsible for that. The Obama administration fought a very successful campaign against Daesh that left them with basically nothing by January 2017. It takes some extreme revisionist history to imply otherwise. You act like Daesh was at its peak when Trump took over, it objectively wasn't.

Libya, same thing. What exactly are you blaming on Biden here? I don't like the Obama administrations policies in regard to Libya, but Trump's have been no better. You didn't mention Yemen, but that spiraled during the Obama administration as well, but once again, Trump doubled down and made it worse.

I am highly critical of Biden and Obama's foreign policy. However, Trump is objectively worse in every metric. He has doubled down on the worst aspects of Obama's foreign policy, (Non-military interventions, extra-legal air strikes, using Gulf States to fight proxy wars, dodging oversite of lethal operations...) and invented whole new disasters of his own. Trump's impact on human misery in those countries is roughly equal to Obama's, but his devastation of our system of alliances, and the long term consequences of those breaking down, is far worse. As far as Biden, you are comparing a Senator and a Vice President to a President. Only one of those has the actual capability to shape foreign policy, and it isn't Biden. I don't expect I will like Biden's policies as President, but they will be superior to the clusterfuck of the last four years.

All that said, I do appreciate an actual response. Dialogue is good, and that was actually the basis of a position (Although I would love to see more actual evidence supporting it).

Let's start with a fact check....

Fact check: Did Biden support wars in Iraq, Serbia, Syria and Libya?
https://www.wral.com/fact-check-did-...ibya/19257083/

Mostly True.

[Rasulis]

Meanwhile, in addition to UAE, Bahrain has just announced a peace agreement with Israel.

I don't remember either UAE or Bahrain ever going to war with Israel.

[Thekri]

What will those F35 be used for?

Military Parades and bombing remote villages mostly. They will probably lose to Iranian Mig-29s if it ever comes to that. The gulf states love their expensive toys, but they give them to spoiled rich kids that don't know how to fly them. Selling them ordinance is the part that upsets me, not the actual aircraft. F-16s would be far more effective platforms for everything the UAE/Bahrain actually use their aircraft for.

[Gaidax]

This explains why Trump vetoed congress removing his war powers against Iran.

Very cute, but frankly - you sure (and some others) are stretching things haaaaard.

Next you tell me Trump's secret plan in establishing Israel - UAE and Israel - Bahrain relations is making war on Iran.

Quite frankly, compared to the last 3 or so presidents US had, Trump is like a peace dove. Guess he needs to invade a country or two to keep up the US trend.

[Felya]

Military Parades and bombing remote villages mostly. They will probably lose to Iranian Mig-29s if it ever comes to that. The gulf states love their expensive toys, but they give them to spoiled rich kids that don't know how to fly them. Selling them ordinance is the part that upsets me, not the actual aircraft. F-16s would be far more effective platforms for everything the UAE/Bahrain actually use their aircraft for.

Yeah, that’s more of what I was expecting. It’s a problem when people are going through the wreckage of a school, to find shrapnel with “Made in USA”. It’s not like it comes with a receipt showing who paid for it...

[Gaidax]

Military Parades and bombing remote villages mostly. They will probably lose to Iranian Mig-29s if it ever comes to that. The gulf states love their expensive toys, but they give them to spoiled rich kids that don't know how to fly them. Selling them ordinance is the part that upsets me, not the actual aircraft. F-16s would be far more effective platforms for everything the UAE/Bahrain actually use their aircraft for.

I don't mind, if that's what lets me have my next vacation in Dubai.

We can now book these and prices are actually decent.

[Thekri]

Let's start with a fact check....

Fact check: Did Biden support wars in Iraq, Serbia, Syria and Libya?
https://www.wral.com/fact-check-did-...ibya/19257083/

Mostly True.

Where did I suggest otherwise? Biden is on record voting for Iraq and Afghanistan initial interventions, he has explained both votes. Trump is on record endorsing them, although he doesn't acknowledge those comments now.

Serbia wasn't in the conversation, but was an ENTIRELY justified conflict, and is a perfect example of foreign policy done right. It stopped a genocide in progress, and established a generally excellent nation from the oppressed minority. Trump undermined the hell out of Kosovo this year (Well, Richard Grenell did, how much is Trump's doing is debatable), but the consequences of that conflict have generally been excellent.

Libya was... a fucking mess. Nobody has any sort of decent record on Libya, dating all the way back to Reagan. Trump and Biden both have egg on their face from their involvement in Libya, because nobody makes that turd sandwich look good.

[Felya]

Very cute, but frankly - you sure (and some others) are stretching things haaaaard.

Next you tell me Trump's secret plan in establishing Israel - UAE and Israel - Bahrain relations is making war on Iran.

Quite frankly, compared to the last 3 or so presidents US had, Trump is like a peace dove. Guess he needs to invade a country or two to keep up the US trend.

I said nothing of the sort... Why did Trump veto the resolution signed by both, democrats and republicans? Where is the evidence of imminent threat Trump asserted after bombing their general? If you think that means there is something fishy there... I agree...

[Edge-]

Meanwhile, in addition to UAE, Bahrain has just announced a peace agreement with Israel.

How does that help me? I am an American currently living in a pandemic that's killed nearly 200,000 Americans already. Our economy is contracting and there's no hope for meaningful stimulus or support from the Federal Government to help people, cities, and states in dire need of additional funding and assistance.

Why the fuck do I give a shit about a country that a majority of Americans couldn't point out on a map?

What the fuck happened to "AMERICA FIRST"? While Americans are dying and suffering he's bragging about helping a foreign country.