Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Machismo]

Yeah go away then.

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I vote for things I actually support.

And who would that be this November?

Or, are you not even an American?

[Machismo]

Egad imagine that! Foreigners existing and lurking among us!

You really don't sound like Trump right now.

So, some random foreigner keeps trying to say that Trump and the GOP are as progressive as the Democrats... and I'm supposed to believe you?

Is this the same GOP that supports sexual assault?

https://www.npr.org/about-npr/651750...rett-kavanaugh

Is this the same GOP that still opposes gay marriage and gay adoption?

https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/...-gay-marriage/

Is this the same GOP that wants to ban abortion?

https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/...n-on-abortion/

What about marijuana?

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-legalization/

Immigration?

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...e-two-parties/

Methinks you either don't know shit about this country, or you are lying on purpose.

I'll let you choose.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Egad imagine that! Foreigners existing and lurking among us!

You really don't sound like Trump right now.

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The problem is that while there might be truth to the claim or otherwise, Trump was very much tried in the court of public opinion rather than a court of law, so it is tough for the Democrats to ride this out credibly given they set that precedent.

I suspect that Biden had a really awkward exchange with this woman, and Trump likes to brag, but neither are sexual predators.

Trump has attempt to worse like walking in on under aged girls changing. These were his own words. It's pretty easy there is no evidence and if there is deal with Biden otherwise. You know innocent till proven guilty.

[Orange Joe]

Take it up with the people who actually voted Trump.

You just said canceling it helped workers, but all it did was cost taxpayers billions in welfare to support farmers.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt...nyone-objected

[Felya]

Seems like you are when you willingly ignoring exit polling showing Bernie's policy were favored, but for some strange reason the candidate who struggle to put together a coherent sentence was "more electable" Gee I wonder were people got that idea. You highlighting a few articles is not the same as news reporters and journalist actually asking Biden tough question, because we have multple video evidence of how Biden handles contentious lnes of questioning.

This isn't true... I told you already... they support those policy, without government control. That’s the contradiction... they do not support Bernie’s version...

Why was the reverse never a question? Not one person was ever asked. How can America afford to let 500ks people go Bankrupt because of Hospital bills. That question was never asked. Why is that ? Odd indeed, it seems like a fair question.

It has been... they do not support government control...

Primaries have historical and are generally much more contentious then the 2020 primary.

So?

Arizona, Florida, Illinois. There have been poll contracted COVID-19 and I read some had died, because the states held their vote. The CDC guildlines were already out by that time, and nothing in them made is seem remotely possible to hold in-person voting.

Your article states that a federal judge forced these votes...

The DNC isn't powerless, because apparently they can be bother to pressure states into voting, but can't be bothered to use the same tactic to postpone voting.

A federal judge denied it... wtf?

The problem is the DNC at their core (or leadership) your choice, is every bit as corrupt as the GOP. I see no difference between Mitch McConnell, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, or Kevin McCarthy. None of them do a damn thing for Americans, and if they do it's only after they ensure their funders are taken care off. Both parties are corrupt and perhaps not legally corrupt, but when they right the laws that isn't a hard one to do.

Yet, Bernie chose to caucus with them and just about every progressive is endorsing Biden. If they are the same, why is this happening? No, no one on the DNC or RNC side is as bad as Trump...

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That thinking though is entirely contingent on a view that all problems begin and end with Trump and his election is essentially "When the fire nation attacked!" kinda deal. If Trumps election is because of the sort of Neo-Liberalism championed by Biden then doing more of that (He tapped Larry Sommers as econ advisor for example), will likely lead to a much worse situation later on. So electing Biden is akin to chugging poison to avoid dying of poison.

Interesting example... Hey... do you think Biden will tell people that injecting with poison might help with corona?

[jonnysensible]

Trumps primary action in office has been a mix of a plutocratic insurgency and a criminal insurgency. Trump who is part of the global super rich has consistantly sought to corrupt every part of government in orded to render it useless in persuing the ultra wealthy. He has waged a large scale campaign to limit the reach and capacity of tax-collecters and regulators whilst also manipulationg the functions of state institutions as a tool to strenghten his own buisness, and the buisnesses of his friends.

He wants to turn the state into permanent gridlock, not destroy it. This has been the task of the GOP along with every libertarian weirdo for the best part of 60/70 years. They dont wish to fully destroy the state just paralyse it in order to carve out autonomous zones for themselves by destroying the states capacity to constrain thier economic action.

Trump and his elite friends deregulate and loot on an industrial scale. Public land turned to oil drilling. Tax cuts which amount to organised theft. Maximalist ambitions completely unrestricted. The total defanging of the state.Austerity. 'There is no such thing as society' Maggie Thatcher style.

At the core of the belief is that the price they are required to pay in taxes outwieghs the benefits to them. They can afford to buy all the comforts the state is meant to provide. They live in gated communites (security), pay massive sums for thier kids education, healthcare and all the other bells and whistles. And because they do, the think you should too! The result has been an assault on public services, moral disinvestment and civic disengagement. Trump is a fucking lightning rod for this. Not the cause, but a big fucking player and a zealot of the ideology. He wants to destroy the notion that citizenship comes with economic responsibilites. Its been the gop platform since Breton Woods collapsed?

We can get into his racism, his advisors, culture war stuff, sexism, nepotism, etc but do we really need to? His core ideology is the opposite of any progressive. Even a limp dick like Biden will throw progressives a bone because they have more in common with progressives than reactionairys like Trump. Biden may not be the right man. Hell he probably isn't, whats needed is a crisis president, but he is a better choice than Trump and if that is the choice then its easy.

Trump is the enemy of progressivism and pretending that he isnt is utter bullshit. Time to face reality. Beat Trump and then fight Biden.

[Orbitus]

So, why did you not believe Ford when Kavanaugh was being accused?

The same reason that he thinks this is credible now, even though they are all over the place, flipping back and forth from support of Biden, to support of fucking Putin.

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Pretty strong evidence against Biden:

https://theintercept.com/2020/04/24/...ade-joe-biden/

TLDR: 30 years ago, a month after the staffer claiming Biden fingerbanged her against her will was fired, her mom called the Larry King show to ask what she should do.

Not really. I have linked it several times, but her story has flipped a thousand times in the last 15+ years.

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Dude. Not ok.

Sure it is. Ben Shapiro is an idiot.

[Theodarzna]

Trumps primary action in office has been a mix of a plutocratic insurgency and a criminal insurgency. Trump who is part of the global super rich has consistantly sought to corrupt every part of government in orded to render it useless in persuing the ultra wealthy. He has waged a large scale campaign to limit the reach and capacity of tax-collecters and regulators whilst also manipulationg the functions of state institutions as a tool to strenghten his own buisness, and the buisnesses of his friends.

He wants to turn the state into permanent gridlock, not destroy it. This has been the task of the GOP along with every libertarian weirdo for the best part of 60/70 years. They dont wish to fully destroy the state just paralyse it in order to carve out autonomous zones for themselves by destroying the states capacity to constrain thier economic action.

Trump and his elite friends deregulate and loot on an industrial scale. Public land turned to oil drilling. Tax cuts which amount to organised theft. Maximalist ambitions completely unrestricted. The total defanging of the state.Austerity. 'There is no such thing as society' Maggie Thatcher style.

At the core of the belief is that the price they are required to pay in taxes outwieghs the benefits to them. They can afford to buy all the comforts the state is meant to provide. They live in gated communites (security), pay massive sums for thier kids education, healthcare and all the other bells and whistles. And because they do, the think you should too! The result has been an assault on public services, moral disinvestment and civic disengagement. Trump is a fucking lightning rod for this. Not the cause, but a big fucking player and a zealot of the ideology. He wants to destroy the notion that citizenship comes with economic responsibilites. Its been the gop platform since Breton Woods collapsed?

We can get into his racism, his advisors, culture war stuff, sexism, nepotism, etc but do we really need to? His core ideology is the opposite of any progressive. Even a limp dick like Biden will throw progressives a bone because they have more in common with progressives than reactionairys like Trump. Biden may not be the right man. Hell he probably isn't, whats needed is a crisis president, but he is a better choice than Trump and if that is the choice then its easy.

Trump is the enemy of progressivism and pretending that he isnt is utter bullshit. Time to face reality. Beat Trump and then fight Biden.

I am curious what the point was of typing a response without tagging me in some way.

[breadisfunny]

How did putting most of Americas farmers on welfare help workers?

so they don't starve?

[Orange Joe]

so they don't starve?

They weren't starving before they had to go on welfare from Trumps actions.

[breadisfunny]

I mean I think Biden is a poor choice. But lets not pretend hes anything close to Trump. Biden will be Obama 2.0 with domestic drone strikes on boogaloo militias. We know what Trumps platform is, full on looting and paralysing of the state with tide pod chugging and lot of racism.

Biden will likely be a limp dick but Trump is a fucking disaster. You can't seriously say the GOP and Trump are good for progressives. Liberals might suck balls but you have more in common than them than you do with far right presidents.


On this Tara person : What she did or said in the past is unrelated to being raped. If some bird sleeps with a different guy every night and then gets raped one night the previous doesnt fucking matter. If this woman got sexually assualted the fact she said some mad shit a while back is no reason not to take her seriously until its gone through the motions. Anything less is bullshit

when the best you can come up is "our candidate is a poor choice but vote for him anyways because the other guy is worse." your not doing yourself any favors in convincing people to vote for him.

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They weren't starving before they had to go on welfare from Trumps actions.

weren't the farms being basically bullied by the big corporations and either forced into basically working alongside them or something?

[Orange Joe]

weren't the farms being basically bullied by the big corporations and either forced into basically working alongside them or something?

Not sure what that has to do with Trump "helping" farmers by killing the TPP and putting them on welfare.

[breadisfunny]

Cancelling TPP isn't what hurt farmer directly. It was a result of China playing dirty to get their way as they've gotten for over 50 years. It is much more nuanced, and yes Trump did a terrible job. Yet he stood up to China as president which is something that hasn't been done for decades in this country.

We should be harsher with China, and we need to move manufacturing back to the US. That of course would also cause retaliation from China. So there isn't an easy way out of it.

actually a big reason is cost. american workers cost much more than chinese workers.

[cubby]

when the best you can come up is "our candidate is a poor choice but vote for him anyways because the other guy is worse." your not doing yourself any favors in convincing people to vote for him.

In fact, that's exactly what you're doing. You just don't under how this works, apparently.

weren't the farms being basically bullied by the big corporations and either forced into basically working alongside them or something?

Awwwwww, look at the Trumpster, deflecting as usual. Whoopsies. I love that you guys still use whataboutisms - it's adorable.

[Zaktar]

Cancelling TPP isn't what hurt farmer directly. It was a result of China playing dirty to get their way as they've gotten for over 50 years. It is much more nuanced, and yes Trump did a terrible job. Yet he stood up to China as president which is something that hasn't been done for decades in this country.

We should be harsher with China, and we need to move manufacturing back to the US. That of course would also cause retaliation from China. So there isn't an easy way out of it.

Manufacturing never left the US, our output is higher than ever, manufacturing jobs left the US and are unlikely to return.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

when the best you can come up is "our candidate is a poor choice but vote for him anyways because the other guy is worse." your not doing yourself any favors in convincing people to vote for him.

When the other candidate is Hitler with dementia, even a "poor choice" who actually has morals and compassion for others is still a no-brainer.

[Orbitus]

There are numerous clips online of Biden looking demented. Whilst in office as Vice-president he presided over the Afghan war, where US forces supported warlords who raped children. I don't think much of his morals and compassion frankly.

Wait, are you seriously trying to pin the Afghanistan war, that was already going at the time of his swearing in, on Biden? That the worst you can do?

[Draco-Onis]

so they don't starve?

But Trump failed at that even before the current situation farm bankruptcies were at an 8 year high. The aid that Trump sent has been gobbled up by big corporations little farms have gotten little help.

[Orbitus]

I do hold him responsible for doing nothing while it went on for 8 years, which Trump did not-one of a very few good things you can say about him.

I do wonder why Biden supporters like you appear to support endless war, crony capitalism,sexism and now homophobia. I thought Trump had those things covered.

Wait, how do I support endless war? Because Trump tried to break one of the few rules that we have, DON'T NEGOTIATE WITH FUCKING TERRORISTS.

The only candidate that I wanted that didn't want crony capitalism, was Bernie, so I don't know where you got the idea that I want Biden, but is he better than Trump? ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY.

Sexism? The only real accusation against Biden, is by what looks like a schizophrenic former staffer that cannot keep her story straight, while 15+ years later, she was still supporting Biden, then she started supporting Putin. How do you go from supporting Biden, to Putin?

Also, how am I homophobic? Because I asked you a question about your ridiculous fucking post? Trying to blame the Afghanistan war, on Biden and Obama.

And yes, Trump does have all of those things covered.

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I was having some doubts myself about the Tara Reade allegation against Biden, but new evidence has been emerging:

The Intercept - New Evidence emerging about Biden's history of sexual assault

Sure she told her mom. Big deal, but somehow, she wouldn't have been fucking SUPPORTING HIM for the next 15+ years on Twitter and blog posts, and couldn't even keep her story straight on about why she left politics. She gave at least 3 different stories for that.

[Levelfive]

Trumps primary action in office has been a mix of a plutocratic insurgency and a criminal insurgency. Trump who is part of the global super rich has consistantly sought to corrupt every part of government in orded to render it useless in persuing the ultra wealthy. He has waged a large scale campaign to limit the reach and capacity of tax-collecters and regulators whilst also manipulationg the functions of state institutions as a tool to strenghten his own buisness, and the buisnesses of his friends.

He wants to turn the state into permanent gridlock, not destroy it. This has been the task of the GOP along with every libertarian weirdo for the best part of 60/70 years. They dont wish to fully destroy the state just paralyse it in order to carve out autonomous zones for themselves by destroying the states capacity to constrain thier economic action.

Trump and his elite friends deregulate and loot on an industrial scale. Public land turned to oil drilling. Tax cuts which amount to organised theft. Maximalist ambitions completely unrestricted. The total defanging of the state.Austerity. 'There is no such thing as society' Maggie Thatcher style.

At the core of the belief is that the price they are required to pay in taxes outwieghs the benefits to them. They can afford to buy all the comforts the state is meant to provide. They live in gated communites (security), pay massive sums for thier kids education, healthcare and all the other bells and whistles. And because they do, the think you should too! The result has been an assault on public services, moral disinvestment and civic disengagement. Trump is a fucking lightning rod for this. Not the cause, but a big fucking player and a zealot of the ideology. He wants to destroy the notion that citizenship comes with economic responsibilites. Its been the gop platform since Breton Woods collapsed?

We can get into his racism, his advisors, culture war stuff, sexism, nepotism, etc but do we really need to? His core ideology is the opposite of any progressive. Even a limp dick like Biden will throw progressives a bone because they have more in common with progressives than reactionairys like Trump. Biden may not be the right man. Hell he probably isn't, whats needed is a crisis president, but he is a better choice than Trump and if that is the choice then its easy.

Trump is the enemy of progressivism and pretending that he isnt is utter bullshit. Time to face reality. Beat Trump and then fight Biden.

This is absolutely correct, so let's be clear about the people who are arguing Biden and "establishment Democrats" (clutch pearls here) are "just as bad"--several of them are people who don't live in the US; a couple claim to, but have a proven track record of lying and misrepresenting pretty much everything so who knows, all of whom are either right wingers or outright Trump supporters posing as "concerned" leftists, and who are either accelerationists and / or under-bridge dwellers trying to convince Americans not to vote at all or stoke division primarily for their own amusement, which is to say, actively trying to inflict maximum harm for fun. And one or two are precisely the dumb suckers they were looking for, taking the transparently obvious bait. There's no serious, rational comparison to be made, so anyone trying to make one fits one or more of the above categories.