Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[downnola]

It's an optional deferment not a cut. Except for Federal employees who are being given no choice. Anyone or business taking advantage of it is expected to pay it back unless Congress passes a bill forgiving the debt occurred.

Just like my federal student loans are basically in deferment. Which I am taking advantage of.

Optional or not, it was enacted via executive order and the negative effects are reality despite who's forced to do it or not. In a perfect world, it would be congress passing tax cuts but the Republican-led senate is not going to fight him on it. Hell, most of them have been begging for a reason to go after entitlements and framing these cuts as Covid relief makes their job all the more easier to let it pass with no pushback.

[Rasulis]

Payroll tax cuts went into effect this month via Trump's executive order from August.

My accountant told me not to bother with it. None of the guys working for me want to deal with it. So we are not doing it.

[Belize]

My accountant told me not to bother with it. None of the guys working for me want to deal with it. So we are not doing it.

Basically everyone that isn't forced to take it is skipping this disaster of an EO.

[omerome]

Optional or not, it was enacted via executive order and the negative effects are reality despite who's forced to do it or not. In a perfect world, it would be congress passing tax cuts but the Republican-led senate is not going to fight him on it. Hell, most of them have been begging for a reason to go after entitlements and framing these cuts as Covid relief makes their job all the more easier to let it pass with no pushback.

Another coward patch on the quilt for the GOP because just think, no one who isn't required to participate in this tax cut BS won't, but they also won't go against their dear leader because he will tweet mean things at them.

And many of them talk about how much they love the military while this screws them over. So I guess this also adds another hypocrite patch to that quilt, too.

[Felya]

Basically everyone that isn't forced to take it is skipping this disaster of an EO.

Are you sure about that?

Businesses reject Trump payroll tax plan while postponing their own tax bills
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...x-bills-414899

Tens of thousands of companies are taking advantage of little-noticed provisions approved by Congress allowing them to postpone paying their payroll taxes until next year and beyond. Among them: Chipotle Mexican Grill, UPS, American Airlines, Wendy’s, AMC Entertainment, SeaWorld and Chico’s.

[downnola]

Another coward patch on the quilt for the GOP because just think, no one who isn't required to participate in this tax cut BS won't, but they also won't go against their dear leader because he will tweet mean things at them.

And many of them talk about how much they love the military while this screws them over. So I guess this also adds another hypocrite patch to that quilt, too.

The saddest part is that they're not really afraid of Trump at all, they're more afraid of their base that would turn on them immediately if they protested against anything Trump did. Republicans are absolutely captured by their voters and stuck in the absurd predicament of supporting policies that will harm the very people they're claimed to help (i.e. poor seniors who rely on Social Security and Medicare to survive).

And they deserve to be in that predicament.

[Felya]

Okay seriously one damn topic. I'm not going to be spending half the day responding to a wall of text.

Oh, I get to repeat my points... yey!!

Members of the GOP would not go with a Payroll Tax cuts, because every state in the US relies on the Payroll Tax. Adding on top of that, It is up to congress to pass such Tax policy changes, not Trump, and the Democrats in their controlled house won't be passing it either as Democratic states are much more reliant on them. So unless you're afraid of the GOP getting control of the Senate, House, and Executive office in 2020. It isn't going to happen unless the GOP sweep the elections this year like they did in 2016. Which there is nothing to indicate that is even possible.

Payroll tax cut has been in effect for 17 days. Short enough for ya? Why must I ignore Trump’s existing and current record, to be afraid of Biden?

- - - Updated - - -

That isn't the same thing as Trump's executive order. That was something approved by congress. As it says in the very thing you quoted.

What Trump executive order? Why didn’t GOP congress stop him?

I bolded your assertion, just in case. Why are you defending Trump’s executive order, instead of social security?

[Felya]

It's not a tax cut, it's a deferment.

That Trump promised to make permanent.

As to your article claiming Business aren't using Trump's EO. Did you even read the article you are quoting? Here is another key take away.

No, that’s you generalizing, businesses are using it. Not all businesses, but enough to be defunding social security. Something they won’t do, when Trump keeps his promise.

Congress is also held by both parties currently. So the provision passed the Democratic controlled house as well as the GOP controlled senate.

That’s fantastic... Trump used an executive order. Why are you shifting the blame from Trump’s executive order to democrats in Congress?

Edit: Nothing like having a far leftist, try to convince me that if Trump succeeds, than GOP will stop him, but if they fail than we can all rely on the kindness of corporations. WTF?!

[Belize]

Are you sure about that?

Businesses reject Trump payroll tax plan while postponing their own tax bills
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...x-bills-414899

Oh no, large corporations that already barely pay taxes are deferring to next year, under a plan that has nothing to do with Trump's EO.

Let me rephrase myself. In relation to Trump's EO, those that aren't forced to take it aren't, because even Trump Supporters aren't dumb enough to just postpone their taxes and pay it all off in one massive chunk.

[Felya]

Oh no, large corporations that already barely pay taxes are deferring to next year, under a plan that has nothing to do with Trump's EO.

Let me rephrase myself. In relation to Trump's EO, those that aren't forced to take it aren't, because even Trump Supporters aren't dumb enough to just postpone their taxes and pay it all off in one massive chunk.

What happens when Trump keeps his promise and makes these indefinite? Depend on the kindness of corporations?

The issue you are showing, is what happens when these corporations don’t believe Trump will make them permanent in January, like he promised. Meaning, it might have something to do with polling and will likely change on November 4th, if current polling isn’t the same in the 3rd.

[PhaelixWW]

What happens when Trump keeps his promise and makes these indefinite? Depend on the kindness of corporations?

To be fair, here... what makes you think that Trump would be able to keep that promise?

[Felya]

To be fair, here... what makes you think that Trump would be able to keep that promise?

The fact that he would only need to extend the existing. We don’t need to wonder if or how Trump would do it, when it’s currently in effect.

Edit: My extensive post on the subject:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ection/page720

Edit 2: Social security will not be lost in the name of ending social security, but in the greed of a tax cut. If people think that Social Security opponents will openly walk around and claim as much, you got a lot of learning to do. It is in the form of a tax cut defunding it... that way, people will cheer as they scream “keep government out of my Medicare”.

[Felya]

Trump can promise whatever he wants, it isn't within his power.

It’s currently going... it’s happening right now... wtf?

You are referring to a policy passed with the last Coronavirus package with Trump's executive order. They are not the same thing. Congress passed that, and so if you have issue with it, then you have issue with the House also passing it.

I have issue with house passing it, but I can’t vote for all congressman! WTF? My issue is with the man who signed the executive order that has it in effect now. You know how you keep saying actions vs rhetoric for Biden? WTF? Why do you keep defending and giving Trump a pass? You can’t even agree on the basic reality of what Trump is doing... you just keep blaming someone else...

They are two separate things, but with a similar effect.

An extension of an existing tax cut, is different than a tax cut? WTF?

Edit: Here, guess which I voted for:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/mem...epresentatives

[Felya]

You do realize that an executive order is different from a policy passed through congress right? Neither of which are a cut.

Yes, and you do realize that the payments are getting deferred now and Trump can extend that deferment indefinitely? You are trying to blame anything other than Trump, I get it... but, in order to keep his promise as president, all he has to do is extend his current executive order. His actions are speaking louder than your words...

Trump is to blame for what is going on. I’m sorry...

[ati87]

The bigger question is, on what grounds does that particular Trump supporter object? It can't be moral grounds, since there is no Trump moral / ethical / legal transgression great enough to withdraw his support. Transactional "values" aren't values at all.

True, nobody takes these allegations seriously when we have dozen or so more credible charges of a larger magnitude.
Nepotism....Trump made Kusher the president of the United States of America.

[Felya]

True, nobody takes these allegations seriously when we have dozen or so more credible charges of a larger magnitude.
Nepotism....Trump made Kusher the president of the United States of America.

Why would new accusers matter, when people don’t care that DOJ is helping Trump block a DNA match from a rape accuser? No one cares...

[Felya]

I do blame Trump for his Executive Orders, but it isn't a cut, and I don't see him legally being able to extended it indefinitely. That would circumvent the constitution and I don't even see many judges agreeing to that.

Why would it violate the constitution, for Trump to issue a tax deferment until January 2022? What about 2023? If altruistic corporations do take advantage, what happens by 2024? I don’t understand why Trump doing exactly what he has, would suddenly violate the constitution.

I'm not defending Trump, you are conflating two different, but similar issues.

Sorry, defending Trump’s ability to enact his policy, by claiming that he has no ability, despite all evidence to the contrary. While instead, pointing at house democrats as the cause, while also claiming GOP will stop him. My bad... is that better? Did I misunderstand? I’ll read and reply to every word...

That particular executive order could probably be overturned in court. I'm sure it over-steps the authority of the Executive Branch but someone would have to start that process.

Could? Nice............... you know how to make sure Trump doesn’t keep his promise?

Edit: I’ll spoil it... in my opinion, in a way that doesn’t shame you or tell you what to do... I will vote to stop Trump...

Edit 2: If Trump violates the constitution, do we get to impeach him twice? Can he just violate the constitution... we say he got impeached each time and then move on with our lives?

Edit 3: Just to save some time... yes, there are democrats in the senate too.

[Benggaul]

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court just decided in favor of Democrats, allowing mail-in ballot deadlines to be extended 3 days past election day to help counter the USPS fuckery. It's a minor victory, but an important one in an important state for the election.

[Felya]

Some fun stuff:

Trump's Threat to Pull Funding From Schools Over How They Teach Slavery Is Part of a Long History of Politicizing American History Class
https://time.com/5889051/history-curriculum-politics/

[Benggaul]

The bolded part is a fucking lie.

Nah, Trump hates mail-in voting, which is totally different.