1. #12921
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    How many milions won't be covered? How many Medical Bankruptcies will still happen? Most importantly how many will still die due to lack of coverage in a system tied to employment during the next economic down turn? Terrible is terrible and a wall of text doesn't change any of the short coming in Biden's plan.
    ,
    How many millions MORE won't be saved by Trump's non-existent plan? How many MORE bankruptcies will happen under a guy who is only looking out for himself? How many MORE will die because NOTHING is being done as opposed to SOMETHING?

    Sorry, you don't get to equate the two just because you think it's not covering everyone. People like you and Rochana investing so much in this "all or nothing" bullshit are perfectly fine killing off millions of other people to make a point, which makes your point moot.

  2. #12922
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    How many millions MORE won't be saved by Trump's non-existent plan? How many MORE bankruptcies will happen under a guy who is only looking out for himself? How many MORE will die because NOTHING is being done as opposed to SOMETHING?

    Sorry, you don't get to equate the two just because you think it's not covering everyone. People like you and Rochana investing so much in this "all or nothing" bullshit are perfectly fine killing off millions of other people to make a point, which makes your point moot.
    Failed attempt at deflection. Its okay to admit Biden's plan doesn't fix any of the underlying issue. It is perfect accept to claim both plans are terrible and its people like you why the Democrats keep getting away with shitty policies.
    Last edited by Jettisawn; 2020-09-07 at 09:03 PM.
    Voter shamming is terrible and shows you have no faith in the Democratic process. Don't do it.

  3. #12923
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Failed attempt at deflection. Its okay to admit Biden's plan doesn't fix any of the underlying issue. It is perfect accept to claim both plans are terrible and its people like you while the Democrats keep getting away with shitty policies.
    Yeah it's people with empathy like him who are trying to keep 10's of millions from losing healthcare. Shame on him for having empathy for his fellow american. Too bad we can't all be like you and not give a shit about anything.

  4. #12924
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Failed attempt at deflection. Its okay to admit Biden's plan doesn't fix any of the underlying issue. It is perfect accept to claim both plans are terrible and its people like you while the Democrats keep getting away with shitty policies.
    Pointing out the glaring flaw in your "all or nothing" bullshit isn't deflection. It's a simple statement of fact. You're willing to ignore the fact that MORE people will lose their health, homes and lives under Trump than Biden because you think your cause is worth OTHER people dying for. *shrug*

    Your second sentence makes no sense so I assume even YOU weren't paying attention to what you were typing. If you can't be bothered, why should the rest of us? G'bye now.

    EDIT: LOOOOOL Even after editing your mess of a sentence you still fuck it up. Yeah, you're done.

    Saving SOME more people is better than ensuring MORE are fucked over. It's as simple as that. And you STILL can't see it.
    Last edited by Benggaul; 2020-09-07 at 09:15 PM.

  5. #12925
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Yeah it's people with empathy like him who are trying to keep 10's of millions from losing healthcare. Shame on him for having empathy for his fellow american. Too bad we can't all be like you and not give a shit about anything.
    Yeah fuck those people who fall through the cracks. No one gives a shit about them anyways certainly not the people defending such a terrible policy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Pointing out the glaring flaw in your "all or nothing" bullshit isn't deflection. It's a simple statement of fact. You're willing to ignore the fact that MORE people will lose their health, homes and lives under Trump than Biden because you think your cause is worth OTHER people dying for. *shrug*

    Your second sentence makes no sense so I assume even YOU weren't paying attention to what you were typing. If you can't be bothered, why should the rest of us? G'bye now.
    Its a stupid plan that doesn't fix the problem or underlying issues. If it isn't a real solutions it only makes getting a one implemented that much harder.
    Voter shamming is terrible and shows you have no faith in the Democratic process. Don't do it.

  6. #12926
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Yeah fuck those people who fall through the cracks. No one gives a shit about them anyways certainly not the people defending such a terrible policy.
    Exactly, so fuck it, because there are cracks, it's perfectly fine for those cracks to become canyons, because fuck empathy for everyone, let it all burn.

  7. #12927
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Exactly, so fuck it, because there are cracks, it's perfectly fine for those cracks to become canyons, because fuck empathy for everyone, let it all burn.
    "Hey, instead of at least putting some stopgap temporary putty in those cracks which might help things in the short term let's see what allowing this sledgehammer to beat on it for another 4 years will accomplish..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Its a stupid plan that doesn't fix the problem or underlying issues. If it isn't a real solutions it only makes getting a one implemented that much harder.
    "HERMAGERD, DEMENTIA!"

  8. #12928
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Failed attempt at deflection. Its okay to admit Biden's plan doesn't fix any of the underlying issue. It is perfect accept to claim both plans are terrible and its people like you why the Democrats keep getting away with shitty policies.
    Good luck with ever getting anything actually accomplished on the federal front with an all or nothing attitude.

    Like, what's your actual solution? Hope that enough people die and that the system is shit for long enough that eventually someone with Sander's ideas gets enough political capital to somehow not only be elected but push the healthcare system you, personally, want through both chambers? You'll be twice dead before that happens if it ever happens, spoiler alert. Democracy is about compromise more than anything else.

    I'm Canadian, I know how cool a single payer system is. Would be great if you Americans wisened up to it- but people won't, not in enough numbers to make a difference anytime soon, not all of a sudden. The next best thing and incremental change from there is how you guys progress- that's how it always worked, in the same way same-sex marriage began as a fringe position in the '70s and is only recently becoming the norm across the States. And that issue isn't complicated by all the capital present in the American healthcare system; reform will be a long and painful process, not some magical slam-dunk because the right guy got elected President or something.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  9. #12929
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    "Hey, instead of at least putting some stopgap temporary putty in those cracks which might help things in the short term let's see what allowing this sledgehammer to beat on it for another 4 years will accomplish..."

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    "HERMAGERD, DEMENTIA!"
    We've had stop gaps since WW2. How many centuries we going to go before we catch up with the rest of the developed world?
    Voter shamming is terrible and shows you have no faith in the Democratic process. Don't do it.

  10. #12930
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    "Hey, instead of at least putting some stopgap temporary putty in those cracks which might help things in the short term let's see what allowing this sledgehammer to beat on it for another 4 years will accomplish..."

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    "HERMAGERD, DEMENTIA!"
    I've seen jettisawn make terrible arguments before, in fact never seen him make a good argument, but this line takes the cake imo. There is absolutely no logic with him.

  11. #12931
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Good luck with ever getting anything actually accomplished on the federal front with an all or nothing attitude.

    Like, what's your actual solution? Hope that enough people die and that the system is shit for long enough that eventually someone with Sander's ideas gets enough political capital to somehow not only be elected but push the healthcare system you, personally, want through both chambers? You'll be twice dead before that happens if it ever happens, spoiler alert. Democracy is about compromise more than anything else.

    I'm Canadian, I know how cool a single payer system is. Would be great if you Americans wisened up to it- but people won't, not in enough numbers to make a difference anytime soon, not all of a sudden. The next best thing and incremental change from there is how you guys progress- that's how it always worked, in the same way same-sex marriage began as a fringe position in the '70s and is only recently becoming the norm across the States. And that issue isn't complicated by all the capital present in the American healthcare system; reform will be a long and painful process, not some magical slam-dunk because the right guy got elected President or something.
    Canada and the US pushed for universal system around the same time. Yet here we are. Clearly a system willing to lose their doctors was the better approach.
    Voter shamming is terrible and shows you have no faith in the Democratic process. Don't do it.

  12. #12932
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Of course they are also full of shit when it come to morality. The government should not force a company not dump chemicals into a river but it will be damned if it lets Adam and Steve adopt a child that it forced Susie to carry to term.

    Does matter if their voters by into it.

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    He did not say they were the same though. He said that they are both shitty.
    Sure, but guess which one has a good chance to be reformed from the inside with enough groundswell of voters? Hint, not the republican party.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    I did't say they were the same just that both terrible. Both parties have had a hand in the growing wealth inequality not seen since the gilded age. They both are servile to Wall Street over Main Street. Its reminds me of WWE or a soap opera. They act like enemies but then you got to look no further than Michele Obama lovingly embrace her war criminal Bush Jr. That is the real DEM and GOP party.
    So what's your solution? Not voting and hoping for some type of external force that destabilizes the system so progressive reform can be implemented? Or build upon the work of Bernie Sanders et al and work from the inside?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I'd like to point out that even if Biden's entire platform would be nothing but "I will once again guarantee to hold elections in 4 years and uphold basic constitutional law in the next 4 years" it would still be an infinite amount of times better than anything the GOP could conjure up at this junction.

    The GOP is the Fascist Party of America, no ifs or buts or whatnots.
    That's exactly right. There is no equivalence.
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    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  13. #12933
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    We've had stop gaps since WW2. How many centuries we going to go before we catch up with the rest of the developed world?
    And healthcare is better now than it was then. Is it ideal? Nope. Will it ever be? Not bloody likely. Especially when you're trying to equate moving BACKWARDS to at the very least baby steps forward.

    Ask women and members of the LGBTQ community whether they're more optimistic about healthcare under Trump or the Democrats.

  14. #12934
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    We've had stop gaps since WW2. How many centuries we going to go before we catch up with the rest of the developed world?
    Whatever our problems are right now, allowing the US to literally become a fascist dictatorship to make a political point about the failure of incrementalism will sure as shit not fix anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  15. #12935
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Canada and the US pushed for universal system around the same time. Yet here we are. Clearly a system willing to lose their doctors was the better approach.
    Yeah, we're better at reform than you guys. Yay us I suppose.

    The question is, where do you fine folks go from there? Throw your hands up, lament the lack of an impossibly perfect solution, and allow 4 more years of gerrymandering and Supreme Court stacking that will make reforms even harder for literal decades to come? I don't think that's the big brain plan you seem to believe it is, not even close to it.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  16. #12936
    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    Sure, but guess which one has a good chance to be reformed from the inside with enough groundswell of voters? Hint, not the republican party.

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    So what's your solution? Not voting and hoping for some type of external force that destabilizes the system so progressive reform can be implemented? Or build upon the work of Bernie Sanders et al and work from the inside?

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    That's exactly right. There is no equivalence.
    It's never going to happen unless people are willing to push for, protest for, and fight policies that help every citizen. Which will never happen so long as people are claiming the current proposed policy is "good". It isn't good, better does not mean good. . We know what a good healthcare system looks like.

    Hell even HRC ran on lowering medicare to 55 Biden is age 60... Progress? God knows the shit we will end up with after the house and senate manage to "compromise".
    Voter shamming is terrible and shows you have no faith in the Democratic process. Don't do it.

  17. #12937
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    How many milions won't be covered? How many Medical Bankruptcies will still happen? Most importantly how many will still die due to lack of coverage in a system tied to employment during the next economic down turn? Terrible is terrible and a wall of text doesn't change any of the short coming in Biden's plan.
    ,
    so the choice is help everyone and fix everything vs helping 10-15-20 million from losing what they have and adding tens of millions more to the covered bucket.


    hmmm, what an argument. God i have to totally vote for fucking over 20+ million people because you can't help the other 50-60 million.


    guess MAGA it is /s
    "The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president," - McConnell
    Karma 1 Trump 0 -Feel as bad for trump as trump did for Hillary- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iIBw-_0T6I

  18. #12938
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Yeah, we're better at reform than you guys. Yay us I suppose.

    The question is, where do you fine folks go from there? Throw your hands up, lament the lack of an impossibly perfect solution, and allow 4 more years of gerrymandering and Supreme Court stacking that will make reforms even harder for literal decades to come? I don't think that's the big brain plan you seem to believe it is, not even close to it.
    keep doing the same shit that lead to Trump. Good plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    so the choice is help everyone and fix everything vs helping 10-15-20 million from losing what they have and adding tens of millions more to the covered bucket.


    hmmm, what an argument. God i have to totally vote for fucking over 20+ million people because you can't help the other 50-60 million.


    guess MAGA it is /s

    You could vote for Biden and still call his plan shit.
    Voter shamming is terrible and shows you have no faith in the Democratic process. Don't do it.

  19. #12939
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    Why someone who claims they want M4A is advocating so hard for 20+ million to lose healthcare so fervently. Oh cause they don't actually give a fuck about it.

  20. #12940
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    keep doing the same shit that lead to Trump. Good plan.

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    You could vote for Biden and still call his plan shit.
    The "shit" that led to Trump has nothing to do with the democratic party and everything to do with the ingrained bias the formation of our federal government has towards conservatism. You amend that, all other items will fall into line. Conservatives wouldn't ratify the constitution of the US unless it had the electoral college, a bicameral legislature and indirect voting for senators. They never wanted full voting enfranchisement. The entire process of the passage to statehood has been a bulwark to meaningful reform due to conservatives using it as a means to magnify their representation. Same with the almost 100 year effort of the denial of re-apportionment/allotment of additional HoR districts that usually increased after the census, which hasn't been changed since 1929. This is all conservative strategies to deny reform.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

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