Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Zaktar]

Must get old pretty fast calling everyone "Trumpster" who doesn't happen to mindlessly support the Democratic Party leadership, which itself is a cabal of corruption and power-hungry miscreants who excel at virtue signaling and little else.

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This is true.

And Trump tries to virtue signal that he'll bring them back, which is a lie of course, but it's a strong message that wins votes.

At least the Democratic Party isn't telling lies about it, which is a plus for them, but the message: "They're not coming back, and we can't be bothered working on alternative solutions for you deplorables" isn't a very good one.

That's just bullshit, they are presenting solutions, even Biden is - you're just not looking for them. He has more of a platform than "I used to know Obama" or "I'm not worse than the other guy," those are just the two things people fixate on most about him. His plans go less far than I would want, but progress is nothing to sneer at. It beats "inject urself wit disinfactant and kys I guess lul Trump4eva!!11"

[Theodarzna]

That's just bullshit, they are presenting solutions, even Biden is - you're just not looking for them. He has more of a platform than "I used to know Obama" or "I'm not worse than the other guy," those are just the two things people fixate on most about him. His plans go less far than I would want, but progress is nothing to sneer at. It beats "inject urself wit disinfactant and kys I guess lul Trump4eva!!11"

His current platform, if who actually will be running the country is any indication, is whatever Larry Summers believes in.

So lets have a look at whom will be helming the ship, Presented here is a comment from former Obama econ guy and now Biden's econ advisor:



Oh, here is another Larry Summers quote from Adults in the Room: My Battle With Europe's Deep Establishment, so said to Yanis Varoufakis.



This guy is Biden's goto guy on economics, this is what you are being asked to vote for. This is what johnnysensible describes as "progressive choice".

[segara82]

This take however has the unfortunate implication of "We'd be winning if people just never said anything negative about our guys!" which is true, if nobody could ever say anything but positivity about Joe Biden, or no information that might cast doubt on the goodness of a Democrats could be shared, then yes that would make elections super easy.

But, unless you labour under the delusion that Democrats are uniquely angelic beings with some inherent goodness; than its essentially "We have to stop news of the bad stuff from coming out because then people won't like our candidate", its either the bonkers belief that its impossible that there could be a flaw with a candidate, or the depraved belief that the public shouldn't be allowed to know anything negative about a candidate.

To the first part: No, talking about the competitors flaws is important, which makes it equally important to give your opposition fewer opportunities for attack. Pelosi's interview at home with the display of all the wealth and food she has during a national/global crisis is, IMO, PURE ignorance of the common voters problems. Friendly reminder, 22+ million people lost their job in the last few weeks due to the Corona crisis.

For the second part: Career politicians are just that for me, their party is rather irrelevant for me. I am a swing voter (in my country) and comment my outsiders view on the american elections.

[Zaktar]

His current platform, if who actually will be running the country is any indication, is whatever Larry Summers believes in.

So lets have a look at whom will be helming the ship, Presented here is a comment from former Obama econ guy and now Biden's econ advisor:

[https://i.imgur.com/GJLtLcR_d.webp?m...idelity=medium

Oh, here is another Larry Summers quote from Adults in the Room: My Battle With Europe's Deep Establishment, so said to Yanis Varoufakis.

https://i.redd.it/8bnq8ulr3wu41.jpg

This guy is Biden's goto guy on economics, this is what you are being asked to vote for. This is what johnnysensible describes as "progressive choice".

Show me where Biden has described him as a "goto guy. "

[Theodarzna]

Show me where Biden has described him as a "goto guy. "

Biden has Summers as an economic advisor, 'progressives' want him ousted.

[Zaktar]

Biden has Summers as an economic advisor, 'progressives' want him ousted.

Nowhere does it describe him as a goto guy. Instead in the source says,

A Biden adviser who asked not to be named said the campaign “is in touch with a very large and well-rounded informal network of experts” on the economy and public health.

Meanwhile Summers himself is downplaying his role already:

“Oh, I wouldn’t over-read things. The vice president and I have been friends for a long time and I’m one of many, many people who his campaign talks to but I don’t have any formal relationship to his campaign,”

I note that his statement is much more in line with the original reporting that Biden is talking to a large, well-rounded group than it is with your assertion that he is a "goto guy."

So still waiting - show me where Biden says he is a goto guy.

[Theodarzna]

goto guy....

You are hung up on a gotcha over a turn of phrase, another way of describing an advisor?

[Felya]

You are hung up on a gotcha over a turn of phrase, another way of describing an advisor?

It’s not a gotcha, you are sensationalizing. What you just did, is look at a mole hill, to complain you can’t call it a mountain.

[Zaktar]

You are hung up on a gotcha over a turn of phrase, another way of describing an advisor?

No Theo, what you said was a blatant lie. Being one of many people he's talking to is very, very different than being a "goto guy." Talking to someone who is an old friend, who has some objectionable views, is what I consider normal human behavior.

We shall see however how this story unfolds over the next few months. If Larry Summers is playing a major role in the campaign, it will be obvious.

[Theodarzna]

No Theo, what you said was a blatant lie. Being one of many people he's talking to is very, very different than being a "goto guy." Talking to someone who is an old friend, who has some objectionable views, is what I consider normal human behavior.

We shall see however how this story unfolds over the next few months. If Larry Summers is playing a major role in the campaign, it will be obvious.

Larry Summers himself denying he plays much of a role isn't proof of much. Given that his presence causes friction, he is going to either have to downplay his role or leave. Also giving a "old friend" a role in government, an advisor position despite his objectionable views you allegedly don't hold would be kinda bizarre. Having a friend, and having that friend advise you on how to run the country are different things.

[Deadite]

And part of that is concern trolling, and pretending to be Democrats and/or Bernie supporters. We've seen it in this very thread.

Of course, this is also a narrative that foreigners love to push, for one reason or another. I cannot count how many times a foreigner has pretended to be an American, shilling for Trump, or "lamenting" that the DNC is robbing Bernie.

Hmm most 'foreigners' seem to think Trump and Biden are awful and are more amazed that they choose Biden over Bernie from what i have seen.

[Zaktar]

Larry Summers himself denying he plays much of a role isn't proof of much. Given that his presence causes friction, he is going to either have to downplay his role or leave. Also giving a "old friend" a role in government, an advisor position despite his objectionable views you allegedly don't hold would be kinda bizarre. Having a friend, and having that friend advise you on how to run the country are different things.

Wild speculation - you can't help yourself, can you? Nowhere does it say he's hired by the campaign, or will be offered a position in government. In fact Summers has said the exact opposite, that he does not have a formal relationship with the campaign. If that changes, we can talk again on the subject.

Edit: Also, you say his denial is not proof of much - for what reason should I assume he's a liar? If anything the statements you're quoting suggest he's too honest for his own good. Is there a history of deception which you can provide?

[Felya]

Well, the only solace we have is that social democrats are growing as a movement within the Democratic Party as time goes on, but there is a lot of internal resistance.

It won’t, as long as they keep loosing the election as it’s growing. The more they grow, while democrats lose, the more they have to work to even return to progressive policy when they began growing.

Liberals (including the neoliberals and capitalists) are not entirely comfortable with a new 'faction' slowly getting more traction and influence within the party. Billions being pumped into attack ads and media (news articles and items) that try to discredit any such movement every year by Democratic PACs, including the types Skroe likes to donate to, or claims to donate to.

I am sorry, liberals are not the ones demonizing socialism. It’s the president of the US, who gives national speeches about evil socialism.

It also seems to annoy the Democratic Party that this progressive faction within the Democratic Party manages to win over some working class republican voters. If you keep an eye on alt-right media you'll notice how careful they are with attacking Bernie. Every time Bernie comes on in a conservative talk show the hosts just get bulldozed and the audience seems to love him. There are some basic honest ideas that he states which ring true to almost everyone who listens and isn't part of some rich privileged family or family business

Bullshit!!! The progressive faction is not moving the right wing. This is a flat out lie... you can’t argue that Biden is too conservative and that he doesn’t attract disenfranchised conservatives. Reminder, conservative groups that are not supporting Trump, are supporting Biden... including Lincoln Conservatives.

Just look at this forum... every time a social democrat is mentioned we have people like Edge and Milchshake attacking them like rabid hounds. The democratic centrists aren't friends of the progressive movement right now. They keep throwing themselves in front of the movement as obstacles to over come, arguing every time that we should move more right or that the social democratic policies aren't achievable, despite their growing popularity. Even after Bernie endorsed Biden people are constantly attacking him and AOC & co.

Nope... both @Edge and @Milchshake are responding to bullshit being stated about social democrats. The difference, which you refuse to acknowledge, is that their position is one that is most likely to accomplish goals of a socialist democrats. While yours is to set us backwards, so social democrats have to work to get us back to where we were 4 or 8 years ago. They actually care about policy, you care about your ego.

Here is a test... if you vote Biden, 1 poor person in America will do better. If you don’t vote, 1 poor person will do worse. After the next term, when a progressive gets elected. Under which scenario would they have to do more work, to get to the same point of helping poor?

[Machismo]

Hmm most 'foreigners' seem to think Trump and Biden are awful and are more amazed that they choose Biden over Bernie from what i have seen.

And those very same ones... shilling for Trump... go figure.

[Deadite]

And those very same ones... shilling for Trump... go figure.

So saying Trump and Biden are awful is shilling for Trump?

[PACOX]

And yet, you have two Trumpsters shilling for Bernie... right in this thread, today.

And yet, the polls show Biden doing better against Trump... I'll stick with statistical data, thanks.

Bloomberg was never polling that well. People didn't really trust him, and he focused everything in a few states.

Trump and his ilk begged for Biden too, though...

Also the DNC specifically let Bloomberg on stage where you had someone like Harris who had solid poll numbers but no money at the time of departure due DNC rules. The DNC and many Dems here were absolutely ready to rally behind Bloomberg despite how those on the left saying they could never vote for him.

[Machismo]

Larry Summers himself denying he plays much of a role isn't proof of much. Given that his presence causes friction, he is going to either have to downplay his role or leave. Also giving a "old friend" a role in government, an advisor position despite his objectionable views you allegedly don't hold would be kinda bizarre. Having a friend, and having that friend advise you on how to run the country are different things.

Great, then why are you unable to back up your assertions?

It's odd that you keep trying to shift the burden of evidence for your claims.

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So saying Trump and Biden are awful is shilling for Trump?

I've gladly provided that evidence in this thread, enjoy!!!

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Trump and his ilk begged for Biden too, though...

Also the DNC specifically let Bloomberg on stage where you had someone like Harris who had solid poll numbers but no money at the time of departure due DNC rules. The DNC and many Dems here were absolutely ready to rally behind Bloomberg despite how those on the left saying they could never vote for him.

And yet, Bloomberg was polling lowly (especially considering how much he spent), and did poorly in the debate.

He had the poll numbers, and he had the money. At the beginning, the field was too large, and cutting it down made sense.

[Felya]

Larry Summers himself denying he plays much of a role isn't proof of much. Given that his presence causes friction, he is going to either have to downplay his role or leave. Also giving a "old friend" a role in government, an advisor position despite his objectionable views you allegedly don't hold would be kinda bizarre. Having a friend, and having that friend advise you on how to run the country are different things.

You don’t have the history one needs to call someone else a liar... iconoclastic doesn’t work, when the basis is dishonesty. It just makes it seem like newspeak. You need to be clever, to be iconoclastic, because it depends on truth. Well... unless truth is the institution you are attacking... that would work.

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So saying Trump and Biden are awful is shilling for Trump?

Yes, because saying Biden is awful, next to a guy that just mused about injecting cleaning fluid and lights to cure corona... you are normalizing the idiot. If Biden is awful, you need to find a far more severe word for Trump...

[PACOX]

Honest question.

Has Biden been doing anything towards helping out with the ongoing crisis? And I don't mean simply campaigning on 'this is how I would do it when in office'.

I have seen many private citizens hold little events, fundraisers, drives, awareness campaigns, etc. Sanders is always doing something. I saw Biden do a 3 min call in once but not sure if he just exists outside of my bubble.

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And yet, Bloomberg was polling lowly (especially considering how much he spent), and did poorly in the debate.

He had the poll numbers, and he had the money. At the beginning, the field was too large, and cutting it down made sense.

The point is that a decent part of the party including leadership worked hard to pull Bloomberg in. It shows how low the party is willing to sink and how desperate it has become.

A woman who had the numbers and no money - Bye Felicia.

Man with money but should have been ideologically disqualified from the start - Sure, we will let you buy your way in

And this happened after the DNC already got slammed for focusing too much on money.

[Felya]

Trump and his ilk begged for Biden too, though...

Trump was calling out Biden, claiming he was easy to beat. While running a deep state scheme to extort a foreign nation, to investigate Biden. At the same time, Trump was saying Bernie would be his top choice for a competitor and that he wasn’t treated fair by DNC. As soon as Bernie lost, Trump started saying Biden would push the same crazy ideas as Bernie on Fox, while trolling Bernie supporters to protest DNC mistreating him on Twitter.

Trump knew that his base and even moderate conservatives would rally behind stoping a socialist. Now, while some people seem to be pushing a protest vote against Biden on social media, Trump and Fox News are doing the complete opposite, by trying to move their socialist formula from Bernie to Biden.

So... here we are... one bubble is pushing Biden as not liberal enough, while the other is pushing him as a liberal extreme. With the end goal being clear... and the white man dances...