1. #13081
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Exactly. There is no business that runs anything like a government.
    That's why services like the USPS are getting so trashcanned by Trump. 'OMG, it makes no money!' It's a fucking public service. Government and Government controlled services aren't meant to be profitable. Yes, they're meant to sustain themselves, but ensuring a top level of service is the end goal not profit margins. Not everything that is profitable is of social value and not everything of social value is profitable. The desired outcome is revenue from taxation that can then build public services and provide societal benefit. It's why Trump fails, because he wants to enrich himself. It doesn't matter if the business fails or the Government fails. If he makes a quick buck, that's that. No wonder he's gone bankrupt so often.

  2. #13082
    I am Murloc! Thekri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    A highly disgruntled constituent of Lindsey Graham.
    Posts
    5,909
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    This is good campaign strategy. The left attacks him for being too conservative, the right attacks him for being too liberal. Means he must be just right.
    This is actually why Biden is growing on me, despite my initial active dislike of him. Most people seem to have the idea that democracy exists to give them the policies they want, but Democracy really exists to give everyone policies they can live with. Biden is one of the few candidates that can actually be the President for the entire nation.

    As much as a lot of people don't want a democratic president that is going to reach out and work with the Republicans, we actually need one that can. Because ignoring and marginalizing them is what gave us Trump in the first place. Biden isn't going to be fantastic for anyone, but he can be a president that is exactly the sort of boring mediocrity that the country desperately needs right now.
    "We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine." DJT- Jan 22, 2020
    "And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done." DJT- Feb 26, 2020
    “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” DJT- Feb 27, 2020

  3. #13083
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post

    As much as a lot of people don't want a democratic president that is going to reach out and work with the Republicans, we actually need one that can. Because ignoring and marginalizing them is what gave us Trump in the first place. Biden isn't going to be fantastic for anyone, but he can be a president that is exactly the sort of boring mediocrity that the country desperately needs right now.
    Every GOP senator minus romney deserves a year in jail for perjury. I'm not interested in working with them. They're complicit in the gross corruption we see. It wouldn't matter if I was interested. As long as the turtle leads the GOP in the senate, there is no working with the GOP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  4. #13084
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    This is actually why Biden is growing on me, despite my initial active dislike of him. Most people seem to have the idea that democracy exists to give them the policies they want, but Democracy really exists to give everyone policies they can live with. Biden is one of the few candidates that can actually be the President for the entire nation.

    As much as a lot of people don't want a democratic president that is going to reach out and work with the Republicans, we actually need one that can. Because ignoring and marginalizing them is what gave us Trump in the first place. Biden isn't going to be fantastic for anyone, but he can be a president that is exactly the sort of boring mediocrity that the country desperately needs right now.
    I'm sorry but that is not what happened at all. The Repubs took their ball and went home with Obama and will do the same with Biden.

  5. #13085
    I am Murloc! Thekri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    A highly disgruntled constituent of Lindsey Graham.
    Posts
    5,909
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Every GOP senator minus romney deserves a year in jail for perjury. I'm not interested in working with them. They're complicit in the gross corruption we see. It wouldn't matter if I was interested. As long as the turtle leads the GOP in the senate, there is no working with the GOP.
    Yep, that is my point. Nobody really wants it, but it is actually in the best interest of the country if someone does. I know you don't like the idea. They don't like the idea of working with democrats either. But someone has to start extending an olive branch if we are all going to be part of the same country.
    "We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine." DJT- Jan 22, 2020
    "And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done." DJT- Feb 26, 2020
    “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” DJT- Feb 27, 2020

  6. #13086
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    Yep, that is my point. Nobody really wants it, but it is actually in the best interest of the country if someone does. I know you don't like the idea. They don't like the idea of working with democrats either. But someone has to start extending an olive branch if we are all going to be part of the same country.
    Uh huh. That was obama in 2008. We saw what the response was from the turtle. Fuck them. They belong in jail.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  7. #13087
    I am Murloc! Thekri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    A highly disgruntled constituent of Lindsey Graham.
    Posts
    5,909
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Uh huh. That was obama in 2008. We saw what the response was from the turtle. Fuck them. They belong in jail.
    Purging approximately 38% of the country is not a workable solution. Those people are in power because they got elected to those positions. There are still a lot of people that support them, and purging an entire political party is a very dark path, no matter how much they deserve it. I am not saying don't hold them accountable when you can actually prove a criminal case, but we still have to work with that part of the country.

    A large part of the energy behind Trump's base is the feeling that liberals hate Trump voters. Which is largely true. I do understand the sentiment, but people do not improve when you just attack them for it. People do not become less racist because you call them racists. People do not become more educated when you mock them for being ignorant. Instead, they double down and make it worse.

    So while "winning" feels good, we can't really have a future where ~55% of America rules over the ~45% of America that backs republicans. You can't cram enlightened liberalism down their throats. I am in no way saying we shouldn't play hardball in the Senate, we should. I am in no way saying we shouldn't launch barrage of legal cases to hold people accountable for the looting and corruption of the last four years, we should. At some point though, we have to actually address the base that made it happen, and it can't be as a conquering and superior attitude.
    "We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine." DJT- Jan 22, 2020
    "And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done." DJT- Feb 26, 2020
    “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” DJT- Feb 27, 2020

  8. #13088
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    Purging approximately 38% of the country is not a workable solution. .
    I'm talking specifically about the ones who are in office, not 38% of americans. 38% of americans didn't commit perjury when they took their oath of office, which includes being an unbiased juror in an impeachment trial. The states those senators are from are mostly led by GOP governors who can appoint different senators until the next election. More than 50 senators belong in jail.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  9. #13089
    The Lightbringer downnola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Made in Philly, living in Akron.
    Posts
    3,742
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    Yep, that is my point. Nobody really wants it, but it is actually in the best interest of the country if someone does. I know you don't like the idea. They don't like the idea of working with democrats either. But someone has to start extending an olive branch if we are all going to be part of the same country.
    I think the attitudes of the Trump base and Fox News gives Republican Senators and Representatives a negative feedback loop that is only going push them further to right and force them to be more hostile to Democrats than they already are. There have always been some conservatives that frame Democrats as radicals that want to destroy the country and it's become more mainstream over the last twenty years. Anyone seen as willing to work with Democrats in a Bipartisan way is shunned. We saw that quite clearly during the Obama years and even now during a global pandemic with mass causalities. I don't see what Democrats have to gain by trying to play nice with a party that is incentivized politically and monetarily to put party before country on a routine basis.

    If Republicans want to extend that olive branch and pass legislation for the good of the country, I'd be more than happy to see it. However, I think that's extremely unlikely and I'm personally tired of seeing Democrats move to the right to satisfy a party that stands by while the "President" makes nonsense of our institutions and democratic process for personal gain.

    Biden isn't going to salt the earth if he wins (he probably should though) but I fully expect the next Republican president to do so if this trend of Republican belligerence continues. The fact that qanon is starting to influence elections doesn't leave me feeling great about the future of American democracy.
    Last edited by downnola; 2020-09-08 at 01:19 PM.
    I had become too accustomed to the pseudo-Left new style, whereby if your opponent thought he had identified your lowest possible motive, he was quite certain that he had isolated the only real one. This vulgar method, which is now the norm and the standard in much non-Left journalism as well, is designed to have the effect of making any noisy moron into a master analyst.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  10. #13090
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    Yep, that is my point. Nobody really wants it, but it is actually in the best interest of the country if someone does. I know you don't like the idea. They don't like the idea of working with democrats either. But someone has to start extending an olive branch if we are all going to be part of the same country.
    Again, NO!!!!!!!!!

    They need to be relegated to the children's table. Their concerns aren't valid. They are acting in bad faith. Fuck them. The numbers exist to run the country without them.

  11. #13091
    a large part of the gop : the democrats are part of a large satanic pedo network that rapes and eats children led by the clintons and tom hanks

    centerist : we should extend the olive branch of peace

    Anyone who thinks bidens presidency is going to be boring is in for a shock.

  12. #13092
    The Lightbringer downnola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Made in Philly, living in Akron.
    Posts
    3,742
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    I've not lived in America, but how true are both those fears? The reason I ask is because I've lived in two countries - India and the United Kingdom.

    I went to a school setup by Scottish missionaries, so it was Christian. We said the Lord's prayer every morning. My family is Hindu.

    My parents never gave a hoot whether we were schooled in Christian morals or not, because we were taught to accept ALL religions and ways of life.

    My school celebrated all holidays. Christian. Hindu. Muslim. Parsi. Judaism isn't big in India, so the high days aren't public holidays unfortunately.

    I've then lived in England for more or less the last 13 years. I work for a big multi-national. There's no religious affiliation, no one would ask for any.

    My company celebrates all holidays. Christian. Jewish. Hindu. Muslim. Parsi. And we also celebrate non-religious special days.

    No one has ever forced a way of life on me ever. But I would assume if you go to a Christian school, you ought to be prepared to be schooled with Christian values in mind. That said, the school should be open to celebrating all religions and be accepting of all ways of life. It isn't a God contest.


    Also, aren't there schools that have no religious affiliation as such and are just...schools?

    A similar issue is plaguing India unfortunately, to the point that it's not the country it was when I was born and raised there. I hope for better.
    I'd say their fears are completely unjustified. I went to Catholic school until 8th grade and graduated from a public High School. Nobody should expect public school to prefer and evangelize one religion over another. That's the point (one of them, anyway) of the First Amendment. If parents want schools to teach their children theology then they should arrange to have their children taught at home or send them to a private school. My parents wanted me raised Catholic so they took me to church and sent me to private school. That's how it should work.
    I had become too accustomed to the pseudo-Left new style, whereby if your opponent thought he had identified your lowest possible motive, he was quite certain that he had isolated the only real one. This vulgar method, which is now the norm and the standard in much non-Left journalism as well, is designed to have the effect of making any noisy moron into a master analyst.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  13. #13093
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    My parents wanted me raised Catholic so they took me to church and sent me to private school. That's how it should work.
    Yup. The govt shouldn't be subsidizing it though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  14. #13094
    The Lightbringer downnola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Made in Philly, living in Akron.
    Posts
    3,742
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Yup. The govt shouldn't be subsidizing it though.
    They should also pay taxes.
    I had become too accustomed to the pseudo-Left new style, whereby if your opponent thought he had identified your lowest possible motive, he was quite certain that he had isolated the only real one. This vulgar method, which is now the norm and the standard in much non-Left journalism as well, is designed to have the effect of making any noisy moron into a master analyst.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  15. #13095
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    They should also pay taxes.
    I think, somewhat surprisingly for me, that by and large churches shouldn't have to pay taxes (as long as they're non-profit). I think religions do provide invaluable services to their communities. Government isn't the group I want to look towards for a counselor after a loved one dies or spiritual succor. It's a position I hold knowing some scam artists will take advantage of the tax free provision, yet still believe the overall good outweighs that negative.

    As long as schools are also non-profit, they also shouldn't be subjected. Non-public schools (religious or not) just shouldn't receive subsidies from the gov't in general. That's just school segregation with extra steps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  16. #13096
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    I think, somewhat surprisingly for me, that by and large churches shouldn't have to pay taxes (as long as they're non-profit). I think religions do provide invaluable services to their communities. Government isn't the group I want to look towards for a counselor after a loved one dies or spiritual succor. It's a position I hold knowing some scam artists will take advantage of the tax free provision, yet still believe the overall good outweighs that negative.

    As long as schools are also non-profit, they also shouldn't be subjected. Non-public schools (religious or not) just shouldn't receive subsidies from the gov't in general. That's just school segregation with extra steps.
    Here's the only issue; many people HAVE made religion for profit. And it's a damn shame. I'm an atheist, so the God conversation doesn't come into it for me. It's about the community and the togetherness that matters. And the fact that it's been commercialised is just shit.

    And if it's going to be commercialised, tax it. Non-public schools shouldn't receive subsidies because there's an exclusivity to it vis-a-vis price point. So if it's education that is not available to everyone, it ought not to be subsidised. Because those schools will also have an element of profit to them.

    Look at colleges/universities and the vast amount of wealth they dedicate to being assets under management by investment banks. They're not doing it for the good of mankind and enlightenment, they just wanna rake in the benjamins. So no, no subsidies.
    Last edited by Valkyrst; 2020-09-08 at 03:08 PM.

  17. #13097
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    solve coagula
    Posts
    54,180
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    This is good campaign strategy. The left attacks him for being too conservative, the right attacks him for being too liberal. Means he must be just right.
    It’s what I keep saying... People get too up in arms over “fake liberals” complaining about Biden. Embrace it... they are the evidence against all Trump rhetoric... Trump obviously thinks running on extremist leftist Biden is a path to victory. Use these people to show he isn’t...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    This is actually why Biden is growing on me, despite my initial active dislike of him.
    Not for me... am voting for him, but I got some concerns that are ready for action, if he wins. If Biden wins, the rhetoric must be that he is too conservative, to at least narrow the Overton Window Trump blew wide open. We can’t have Biden as a representation of the left, in a healthy democracy. Especially following Trump... it has the potential to make a conservative like Biden, seem very left by comparison, which just forces GOP to go more extreme.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  18. #13098
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Again, NO!!!!!!!!!

    They need to be relegated to the children's table. Their concerns aren't valid. They are acting in bad faith. Fuck them. The numbers exist to run the country without them.
    It seems you haven't been keeping up with current events.
    You're part of the reason why there won't be a stimulus package and additional unemployment funding until after November.

  19. #13099
    Legendary! PresidentElectMilchschake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Giving Fascists Tummy Aches
    Posts
    6,945
    8 weeks to go! 56 to boot fascism from the White House.

    CNN's pollster Harry Enten points out:
    Biden has been running for president for 501 days by count... He's been ahead of Trump for each of those 501 days. No challenger has ever led for that long.

    Over the last 12 Presidential elections, the Labor Day leader has won 9 times, 11 if you count Al Gore and Hillary.

    This race is very stable. Which can also be scary since the Oligarch Axis of Trump/Fox/GOP/Putin will become very desperate. Upping the possibility of more dangerous and outrageous tactics to shake it up.

    But 2020 has been an incredibly stable race thus far:
    Welcome to GEN-OT, have a seat, we'll introduce you to the 23-year-old who will lecture you about how Democrats didn't try hard enough to improve the ACA, and once that's all set up you'll be assigned a socialist who supported Ron Paul up to 2015 to harass you forever.
    "Once bigotry or self-loathing permeate a given community, it is only a matter of time before deep metaphysical significance is assigned to the shape of human skulls."
    -Lady Foppington

  20. #13100
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    Biden isn't going to be fantastic for anyone, but he can be a president that is exactly the sort of boring mediocrity that the country desperately needs right now.
    I wouldn't go that far. I deeply despise the man(I still think he is probably a rapist and he is actually senile), but I try to shut up about it as much as possible because ultimately no matter what, at least he is not Idiot Twitler.

    I think Biden falls far short of being mediocre, but we might get lucky and he gets a stroke by February, and then at least end up with a mediocre and not senile president in office, but again it doesn't matter, I will vote for the guy because he is not an authoritarian idiot like Trump who'd usher in a fascist state by sheer malice and incompetence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •