Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[PhaelixWW]

Trump is leading with Independents by 10 points.

Says whom?

[beanman12345]

I linked you his 2020 healthcare plan, which uses taxes from capital gains and rolls back Bush and Trump tax cuts for it. You don’t need to mock me, for using the latest information. You don’t need to mock me, for Biden doing exactly what you asked.

Too busy protesting to educate themselves on what they are protesting I guess.

[Felya]

Biden/Democrats already said they're not rolling back the Trump tax cuts so that's out of date.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...trump-tax-cuts

That’s great, Biden didn’t:

https://joebiden.com/healthcare/#

As President, Biden will roll back the Trump rate cut for the very wealthy and restore the 39.6% top rate he helped restore when he negotiated an end to the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in 2012.

Is it still on Biden’s site? Thought so... but, yeah... keep attacking Biden for doing the things you ask... very on brand.

[Thekri]

Says whom?

Lots of people. Everyone is saying that. The other day this big guy came up to me, very tough guy, and he was crying, and he said "Trump is leading with Independents by 10 points"

/s

[Adam Jensen]

They are against Trump but they also want things like M4A, the Green New Deal, etc and when they've lost their jobs and are getting evicted en masse, they have nothing left, and threatening them with "but if Trump wins democracy will die and you guys will lose everything" doesn't matter when they've already lost everything. You have to give them something to vote for, like Republicans do for their voters. It might be racist bullshit and fear mongering, but they're still giving them something to vote for besides "we're not the other guy".

Okay, so they can vote for Biden under whom things at minimum won't get worse (and really, will get better) or they can vote for Trump (or not vote, same difference) and let things get even worse.

You won't get M4A or GND by sitting out or voting for Trump. Under Biden, at least we'll take some steps in that direction.

[Felya]

That study is about the midterms, which is a completely different kind of election than the general election for the president.

Do you believe that Trump supporters, including the independent ones, believe that Trump is lying, when he claims Biden will bring the socialist take over that is M4A? You think it’s a better tact to attack Trump and his supporters who claim it’s a communist take over, instead of people who don’t think it can pass GOP Congress?

[Edge-]

https://www.citizen.org/news/trump-c...from-pandemic/

https://www.townofpeterborough.com/v...d-dcc2ef606fe4

First link in the article, look at the wording on the resolution.

WOW, EVERYONE WILL GET EVERYTHING COVERED AND IT WON'T COST US MORE AT THE DOCTOR, GREAT!
WOW, WE'LL GET ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE EVERYWHERE, GREAT!
WOW, WE'LL SAVE NEARLY $1M LOCALLY SINCE THE FEDS ARE PAYING FOR CITY HEALTH INSURANCE NOW, GREAT!
WOW, IT HAS PUBLIC SUPPORT!
WOW, THIS RESOLUTION DOESN'T MATTER!

Again, this is what I'm talking about: There's broad support for the idea. But start throwing price tags on there, start reminding people that they'll lose their current plans, and get into details and people start getting cold feet.

[DingDongKing]

Lots of people. Everyone is saying that. The other day this big guy came up to me, very tough guy, and he was crying, and he said "Trump is leading with Independents by 10 points"

/s

You forgot the ‘sir’.

[Flower Milk]

Okay, so they can vote for Biden under whom things at minimum won't get worse (and really, will get better) or they can vote for Trump (or not vote, same difference) and let things get even worse.

You won't get M4A or GND by sitting out or voting for Trump. Under Biden, at least we'll take some steps in that direction.

Is this Biden's strategy to win those people over though? Just saying stuff like this doesn't get people to vote for Biden, especially Independents. You need to give them something to vote for besides "things will get worse if you don't".

[Felya]

Says whom?

Something interesting... according to gallop, 40% are independent... 10% lead amongst them for Trump according to flower... that means the split is, 22-18%... 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 25% identified as Republican. Making this Biden 49% to Trump 47%... so... the risk does not seem worth the reword. No placating Trump supporters!!!

[Edge-]

Is this Biden's strategy to win those people over though? Just saying stuff like this doesn't get people to vote for Biden, especially Independents. You need to give them something to vote for besides "things will get worse if you don't".

This is literally the Trump platform, and has been a big part of the Republican platform for decades...are you arguing that fear doesn't work as a motivating factor?

[beanman12345]

Is this Biden's strategy to win those people over though? Just saying stuff like this doesn't get people to vote for Biden, especially Independents. You need to give them something to vote for besides "things will get worse if you don't".

Nah Biden shouldn't appeal to anyone who's too ignorant that they willingly chooses not to vote. If that costs him, he wasn't gonna win anyways.

[Flower Milk]

This is literally the Trump platform, and has been a big part of the Republican platform for decades...are you arguing that fear doesn't work as a motivating factor?

It actually isn't. The things he gave people to vote for were awful, stupid, and racist as fuck, but "building the wall" is a tangible goal to vote for. "I'm not that other guy" or "things will get worse" isn't. Also if you remember, Trump also ran on repealing NAFTA, even though he replaced it with the exact same thing again lol, but he ran on doing that. If you've been paying attention to his rallies lately, he is doing the same thing again.

I'm sorry but I when watch Joe Biden the majority of what I get from what he says is "my son died" and "we're gonna restore the soul of America". He repeats those 2 things a lot and those are what I remember from his speeches the most because of it, even though I know what his actual policies are and have known since the primaries. He needs to be hammering home his policies over and over again or people won't have any idea what they're voting *for* when they're choosing whether to vote for Biden, most people don't pay as much as attention to politics as you or I do.

- - - Updated - - -

Something interesting... according to gallop, 40% are independent... 10% lead amongst them for Trump according to flower... that means the split is, 22-18%... 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 25% identified as Republican. Making this Biden 49% to Trump 47%... so... the risk does not seem worth the reword. No placating Trump supporters!!!

I think you forgot about the electoral college my dude. He needs to be leading by way more than 2 percentage points.

[AntiFascistVoter]

Something interesting... according to gallop, 40% are independent... 10% lead amongst them for Trump according to flower... that means the split is, 22-18%... 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 25% identified as Republican. Making this Biden 49% to Trump 47%... so... the risk does not seem worth the reword. No placating Trump supporters!!!

Nah Biden shouldn't appeal to anyone who's too ignorant that they willingly chooses not to vote. If that costs him, he wasn't gonna win anyways.

Didnt you get the memo? Street fightin' Antifa is 10% of the independent vote! Why wont Dems appeal to themmmmm.
/s

[Felya]

I think you forgot about the electoral college my dude. He needs to be leading by way more than 2 percentage points.

Did you forget them when saying 10% of independents will vote Trump? Oops?

Edit: oh and the amount he needs to lead in popular to win the electoral, cannot be defined...

[Edge-]

I'm sorry but I when watch Joe Biden the majority of what I get from what he says is "my son died" and "we're gonna restore the soul of America".

You must not see much then. I mean, I don't watch that many of his events but I did catch part of his drive-in town hall and he sure talked about a whole lot that wasn't his son, and while the "restore the soul of America" is a part of it, that's a part of his core campaign messaging. It's about as meaningful as "BUILD THE WALL" is as a slogan.

And I mean...what do you think "THE WALL" was for? To celebrate Trump? No, it was another fear tactic because those Mexicans with thighs the size of cantaloupes are lugging 50 pounds of weed on their back across the border! The rapists and murderers are coming across the border and you need to be terrified! Only I can save you from this horrific terror that shall lurk on your doorsteps in rural Montana and South Dakota!

[Flower Milk]

Did you forget them when saying 10% of independents will vote Trump? Oops?

Edit: oh and the amount he needs to lead in popular to win the electoral, cannot be defined...

I said Trump is leading Independents by 10 points compared to Biden, not that 10% of Independents will vote for Trump.

Biden needs to be polling over at least 5 percentage points over Trump to win the electoral college, and even that is pretty dicey. 10+ percentage points is probably more of a safe area if I had to guess.

Also I honestly have no idea why Democrats don't run on getting rid of the electoral college, either.

[PhaelixWW]

Results for Independent voters in recent polls:

• Dornsife (9/8-21): Biden +3
• Morning Consult (9/18-20): Biden +7
• HarrisX (9/10-14): Biden +6
• RMG Research (9/17-19): Biden +14
• IBD/TIPP (9/16-19): Biden +7
• Hart Research Associates (9/3-7): Biden +10

[Flower Milk]

Results for Independent voters in recent polls:

• Dornsife (9/8-21): Biden +3
• Morning Consult (9/18-20): Biden +7
• HarrisX (9/10-14): Biden +6
• RMG Research (9/17-19): Biden +14
• IBD/TIPP (9/16-19): Biden +7
• Hart Research Associates (9/3-7): Biden +10

I admittedly haven't been keeping track of the more recent ones but this was the last one I saw where I got my numbers from:

https://twitter.com/WorkingClassLI/s...21998193999875

CBS News/ YouGov poll - post DNC
Among Independents
Trump 47% (+10)
Biden 37%

[cubby]

Mississippi's Senate race is tightening. What-the-holy-fuck?

538 showing it a 1 point race.