Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Thepersona]

Trump isn't fighting for the average American vote. He's trying to keep his base.

And Ratfuck the election. Hey, you'll be a banana republic if he succeeds!

[infinitemeridian]

This would be Joe on the defensive on the whole debate, because he'd have to use all his time to refute every single one of Trump's many lies. He has to throw his own punches at some point, and that means, to a certain extent, rolling his eyes and ignoring Trump.

I don't know that you can effectively debate a creature like Trump. It's on the moderators to police Trump's behavior, not his opponent's.

The way to effectively debate Trump is to act like him. Rolling your eyes and not saying anything is the exact opposite approach to take, which we have seen before.

For instance, Biden let slide Trump's claim that Obama 'left him' 128 open slots in the judiciary to fill. Because he still is trying to obey the debate rules, he didn't jump in to say 'Because your party wouldn't give them an up or down vote' -- why? It would take three seconds. People who don't pay any attention are not going to be able to contextualize it.

Biden needs to do it. He needs to get emotional and call Trump an asshole for, frankly, being an asshole when he talks about his dead son. He needs to get mad, because the average voter would get mad in the same scenario and Biden needs to come off like a human being, not someone who was hatched out of an egg in the basement of the CIA headquarters. He needs to get much more aggressive during the next debate if these are going to benefit him in any way.

That being said, I don't think Biden is going to necessarily lose voters because of this debate performance, but he's certainly not gaining any.

[Fahrenheit]

Trump lost, badly. He needed to do something to help his faltering numbers with working/middle class suburban white women. They slaughtered the GOP in 2018, they’re posed to do it again in 2020, and NOTHING Trump said tonight is going to help him in anyway with them.

[Elegiac]

That being said, I don't think Biden is going to necessarily lose voters because of this debate performance, but he's certainly not gaining any.

So considering he's already ahead of Trump, he effectively debated him by maintaining his lead. QED.

The clownery.

[infinitemeridian]

A take I agree with is Biden showed up not to motivate any voters, especially the left. He was just there to show a normal influence.

That's not a good thing. Democrats cannot blame the left for costing them an election, while at the same time yelling at them to vote and offering them nothing in return. Biden could at least have endorsed BLM ffs, but he could not even do that because the Dem party is nothing if not subservient to suburban white women.

[Radux]

The goal is to gain some voters. Trump needed to get a lot of voters over to his side since he's so far behind currently. Instead of appealing to those voters, he just acted like an asshole trying to fight Biden. Trump blew it.

Biden spent much more time directly appealing to people looking for a reason to vote for either candidate. Even though Trump got away with plenty of lying and bullshitting, Biden scored a lot of points with people outside of either party's base.

This is pretty much my view as well. If you needed to convince people to vote for you: Pulling the 2016 playbook "be asshole to everyone" might not cut it when you're behind.

[PACOX]

While I think it was a little bogged down with some of the back and forth and constant Trump interrupting to try throw Biden off his game (didn't really work, he's not Hilary), I have to say Biden came out ahead.

He talked about his points, got in some jabs he knew Trump would take and whine about, stammered a little on some things but overall, the winner of the debate.

Maybe Trump should be the one to take a drug test or get tested for dementia. Couldn't even answer the questions posed by Wallace, constantly rambling nonsense (Forest cities in Europe. Apparently they're Ewoks now), and of course the interruptions like a whining child.

I agree with others. The moderator needs to be able to cut the mic of the offender who interrupts.

Trump has access to all the Adderall US medicine has to offer. You think he wasn't pregaming before hand?

[Elegiac]

That's not a good thing. Democrats cannot blame the left for costing them an election, while at the same time yelling at them to vote and offering them nothing in return. Biden could at least have endorsed BLM ffs, but he could not even do that because the Dem party is nothing if not subservient to suburban white women.

> Spreads right wing talking points.
> "Oh btw guys I voted for Biden so you can't criticise my shitty opinions".

If Biden maintained his lead, is that not a successful debate?

[infinitemeridian]

So considering he's already ahead of Trump, he effectively debated him by maintaining his lead. QED.

The clownery.

Read my post - I already said most people's minds are made up at this point. The debates are political theater and have been for a while. If we're going to act like they matter and that Biden should attempt to actually come off like he "won" to the average American, then that's my advice.

Nobody gives a shit about how many fact checks at the end of the day - it's all style and zingers. You can cry about how "wrong" that is, but that is how our society operates and if you want to win, then you need to play on those terms.

[Sunseeker]

> Spreads right wing talking points.
> "Oh btw guys I voted for Biden so you can't criticise my shitty opinions".

I mean, it woulda been nice to hear Biden say "I support BLM" or "I support the Green New Deal"....but I understand why he couldn't, and didn't. I don't like it, but it had to be done. He did at least say he supports defunding the police. Kinda danced around it afterward, but ya know, he said it. So, something.

[Fahrenheit]

That's not a good thing. Democrats cannot blame the left for costing them an election, while at the same time yelling at them to vote and offering them nothing in return. Biden could at least have endorsed BLM ffs, but he could not even do that because the Dem party is nothing if not subservient to suburban white women.

Trump is rocket fuel for left enthusiasm. Biden had to not do anything dumb and let Trump play to his base and no one else. I can’t imagine any middle of the road, moderate sane person could watch that disgrace and think anything positive about Trump.

[Elegiac]

The irony in supposed progressives spending more time complaining about Biden being too restrained than about the fact Trump openly endorsed white supremacists during the debate and advocated electoral interference.

/yawn

2016 part 2. I really wish these folks would drop the act and pick another Ron Paul to stan already.

[PACOX]

This is pretty much my view as well. If you needed to convince people to vote for you: Pulling the 2016 playbook "be asshole to everyone" might not cut it when you're behind.

Its exactly what worked in 2016. He is campaign was in shambles at the time fo the first debate in 2016.

Hindsight should bite him clean in the ass this time in the middle of a pandemic, judicial crisis, and 4 years of Trump.

Even if they plan to rock Biden with a midnight scandal, it's going to be about Hunter and not Jo himself.

Biden has the opportunity to frustrate and Trump into verbal desperation by being plain and boring.

[infinitemeridian]

> Spreads right wing talking points.
> "Oh btw guys I voted for Biden so you can't criticise my shitty opinions".

If Biden maintained his lead, is that not a successful debate?

Wtf right wing talking points am I spreading? Are you denying that the Democratic party is not largely the party of suburban middle class yuppies? It's right wing to want the Democratic party to at least pretend like it gives a shit about expanding it's base beyond that?

[TACOshake]

Oh noes, Biden didnt inspire online leftists ... part12221!

Every man is like “why doesn’t Biden just stop him” and every woman is like “this is my life.”



Biden going after the Normie Mom Vote just confuses very online boys.

[beanman12345]

> Spreads right wing talking points.
> "Oh btw guys I voted for Biden so you can't criticise my shitty opinions".

If Biden maintained his lead, is that not a successful debate?

Dude threatened to vote Trump if Biden didn't debate, guy loves Trump's theatrics and antics, then called everyone with a functioning brain that they are delusional for thinking Trump wasn't destroying Biden tonight simply because he got to see what he loves, Trump being Trump. Dude's 100% a trumper,

[Elegiac]

Wtf right wing talking points am I spreading? Are you denying that the Democratic party is not largely the party of suburban middle class yuppies? It's right wing to want the Democratic party to at least pretend like it gives a shit about expanding it's base beyond that?

It's a right wing talking point to claim Biden is offering people nothing, just like it's a right wing talking point that Biden has dementia that y'all were so eager to circulate before tonight.

[infinitemeridian]

Trump is rocket fuel for left enthusiasm. Biden had to not do anything dumb and let Trump play to his base and no one else. I can’t imagine any middle of the road, moderate sane person could watch that disgrace and think anything positive about Trump.

People vote when you offer them something. Nobody wants to do a "hold-your-nose vote". I never want any of you people on my sales team. If the dems can't offer the left anything, what difference does it make who gets in the office? Don't tell me the supreme court, because clearly they have no interest in stopping the nomination.

[Elegiac]

People vote when you offer them something. Nobody wants to do a "hold-your-nose vote".

This is certainly a shift in tack from when y'all were claiming that Trump won 2016 because Hillary was too awful to vote for.

If you think SCOTUS makes no difference, it's clear you have no stake in the game and view it as amusement.

[kail]

That's not a good thing. Democrats cannot blame the left for costing them an election, while at the same time yelling at them to vote and offering them nothing in return. Biden could at least have endorsed BLM ffs, but he could not even do that because the Dem party is nothing if not subservient to suburban white women.

I would agree with you if it looked close and Biden even needed more voters. ATM it's Trump that needs to appeal to more Americans and he only played himself with his behavior tonight. Trump will never lose his base unless he does something that completely opposes their appeal (i.e. grant citizenship to all undocumented). Throughout his 4 years, I've only seen him lose voters that wanted to give a non-politician a shot or just vote the usual Red team.

Trump is the one with the ball that needs to score to get ahead and so far he's only thrown it on the opposing side.