Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Elegiac]

People vote when you offer them something. Nobody wants to do a "hold-your-nose vote".

This is certainly a shift in tack from when y'all were claiming that Trump won 2016 because Hillary was too awful to vote for.

If you think SCOTUS makes no difference, it's clear you have no stake in the game and view it as amusement.

[kail]

That's not a good thing. Democrats cannot blame the left for costing them an election, while at the same time yelling at them to vote and offering them nothing in return. Biden could at least have endorsed BLM ffs, but he could not even do that because the Dem party is nothing if not subservient to suburban white women.

I would agree with you if it looked close and Biden even needed more voters. ATM it's Trump that needs to appeal to more Americans and he only played himself with his behavior tonight. Trump will never lose his base unless he does something that completely opposes their appeal (i.e. grant citizenship to all undocumented). Throughout his 4 years, I've only seen him lose voters that wanted to give a non-politician a shot or just vote the usual Red team.

Trump is the one with the ball that needs to score to get ahead and so far he's only thrown it on the opposing side.

[infinitemeridian]

It's a right wing talking point to claim Biden is offering people nothing, just like it's a right wing talking point that Biden has dementia that y'all were so eager to circulate before tonight.

I mean, there were multiple times tonight where Biden could barely complete a sentence so that is not entirely untrue. And what is he offering? To make healthcare "better"? To restore American dignity?

Most people can see the snake oil that the Dems sell because we see how the dems operate when they're in power and even when they're not. Having 500 pages of wonkery that nobody can understand on your webite is not offering jack shit.

[eschatological]

Read my post - I already said most people's minds are made up at this point. The debates are political theater and have been for a while. If we're going to act like they matter and that Biden should attempt to actually come off like he "won" to the average American, then that's my advice.

Nobody gives a shit about how many fact checks at the end of the day - it's all style and zingers. You can cry about how "wrong" that is, but that is how our society operates and if you want to win, then you need to play on those terms.

Most of the trending "zingers" on Twitter tonight are when Biden called him a clown, to "quit yappin'," and "will you just shut up, man?" That last one should be on a t-shirt by the end of the week, imo.

What zingers did Trump get in? The 128 judges thing isn't a zinger, it's simply a lie, and Biden not jumping in to immediately refute it isn't something average people will give a shit about tomorrow. They'll remember Biden telling him to shut up, though.

[Felya]

The irony in supposed progressives spending more time complaining about Biden being too restrained than about the fact Trump openly endorsed white supremacists during the debate and advocated electoral interference.

/yawn

2016 part 2. I really wish these folks would drop the act and pick another Ron Paul to stan already.

Literally went off on far leftists, claiming that endorsing their policy will cost him the election. They are talking about the decorum of Biden , while Trump just called them mother fuckers.

[infinitemeridian]

I would agree with you if it looked close and Biden even needed more voters. ATM it's Trump that needs to appeal to more Americans and he only played himself with his behavior tonight. Trump will never lose his base unless he does something that completely opposes their appeal (i.e. grant citizenship to all undocumented). Throughout his 4 years, I've only seen him lose voters that wanted to give a non-politician a shot or just vote the usual Red team.

Trump is the one with the ball that needs to score to get ahead and so far he's only thrown it on the opposing side.

The thing is, if Trump maintains his base, he will win because the electoral college is in his favor.

[jonnysensible]

People vote when you offer them something. Nobody wants to do a "hold-your-nose vote". I never want any of you people on my sales team. If the dems can't offer the left anything, what difference does it make who gets in the office? Don't tell me the supreme court, because clearly they have no interest in stopping the nomination.

trump is openly fascist. if you are whining about having to vote for some neoliberal instead, you are the kind of person who would play tennis next to the gas chamber and complain about the smell.

[Felya]

I mean, there were multiple times tonight where Biden could barely complete a sentence so that is not entirely untrue. And what is he offering? To make healthcare "better"? To restore American dignity?

Most people can see the snake oil that the Dems sell because we see how the dems operate when they're in power and even when they're not. Having 500 pages of wonkery that nobody can understand on your webite is not offering jack shit.

How can you even say democrats sell you snake oil, after that debate? Watching other people vote is illegal...

[Radux]

Its exactly what worked in 2016. He is campaign was in shambles at the time fo the first debate in 2016.

Hindsight should bite him clean in the ass this time in the middle of a pandemic, judicial crisis, and 4 years of Trump.

Even if they plan to rock Biden with a midnight scandal, it's going to be about Hunter and not Jo himself.

Biden has the opportunity to frustrate and Trump into verbal desperation by being plain and boring.

I mean. People were mad about the status quo and stuff back then. He was bucking the system. Now he IS the system.
I get that it's not going to be about Joe Biden. The election is going to be about who votes for Trump and who votes against Trump.

[Elegiac]

I mean, there were multiple times tonight where Biden could barely complete a sentence so that is not entirely untrue.

I'm gonna need to see some evidence that Biden's speech patterns tonight prove he has dementia.

Spoilers: They don't. They prove he's an old man with a former speech disorder, and that y'all apparently think Alzheimer's is a fun joke.

And what is he offering? To make healthcare "better"? To restore American dignity?

"Normalcy and calm", which is immensely attractive when contrasted with Trump.

Most people can see the snake oil that the Dems sell because we see how the dems operate when they're in power and even when they're not. Having 500 pages of wonkery that nobody can understand on your webite is not offering jack shit.

So you're admitting that nothing they say or do would convince you regardless.

Remind me why they should give a fuck about your 'advice'?

[Sunseeker]

trump is openly fascist. if you are whining about having to vote for some neoliberal instead, you are the kind of person who would play tennis next to the gas chamber and complain about the smell.

I was saying this to my normanlly-republican friend earlier. It's a choice between the Human Dad Joke and the Living Asshole.

What choice is there really?

[infinitemeridian]

This is certainly a shift in tack from when y'all were claiming that Trump won 2016 because Hillary was too awful to vote for.

If you think SCOTUS makes no difference, it's clear you have no stake in the game and view it as amusement.

Hillary was offering the same package that Biden is offering. Incremental bullshit that is watered down before it even reaches the table that the Republicans will decimate when the Dems inevitably lose because they can't inspire people outside of the beltway.

[Felya]

The thing is, if Trump maintains his base, he will win because the electoral college is in his favor.

Not if people actually vote in a couple of states... Why do you think Trump kept taunting Biden about radical leftist?

[postman1782]

You're welcome. Sit down.

Thank you.

[Elegiac]

Hillary was offering the same package that Biden is offering. Incremental bullshit that is watered down before it even reaches the table that the Republicans will decimate when the Dems inevitably lose because they can't inspire people outside of the beltway.

Uh huh.

Now, what's the alternative on offer to "incremental, watered down bullshit"?

Because if your answer is that most Americans are secretly accelerationists - no, they aren't. It's literally just you and your friends on Twitter or Twitch.

[kaelleria]

How are there undecided voters still...

HOW DOES THIS MAN ON CNN THINK THIS WAS AMERICAN POLITICIAL THEATRE AT ITS BEST.

[Breccia]

The thing is, if Trump maintains his base, he will win because the electoral college is in his favor.

Not right now it isn't.

The election is a long way away, in context that is, but 278 votes lean (or more) Biden, and 169 Trump.

The rest of my comments don't belong in this thread.

[infinitemeridian]

See, you're still spreading right wing talking points.



"Normalcy and calm", which is immensely attractive when contrasted with Trump.



So you're admitting that nothing they say or do would convince you regardless.

Remind me why they should give a fuck about your 'advice'?

The normalcy that Biden wants is what got us Trump in the first place. They could offer clear cut policies, like M4A, the Green New Deal. Much easier to sell than reduced income tax credits for people who make less than 100k or some other bullshit like that.

You don't win an election on plans - you win it on offering a vision, which the dems can't do outside of "trust us, it will be better". Then they go ahead and cede things like packing the courts. The reason the Republicans are blowing their back walls out is because it's pretty easy to run laps around your opponent when you know exactly what they won't do. That and the Republicans actually have a vision for what they want the country to be, not just managing it like the Dems do.

[Biglog]

I don't really buy that anyone is undecided at this point. In a normal election where the candidates might have subtle differences in issues, I 100% agree a debate can help sway undecided voters. So that's where the idea that these debates have value is coming from. But this isn't one of those elections. This is Churchill v. Stalin. If that's a tough call, maybe sit this one out.

The alarming part for me is early debate returns that had 48% saying Biden "won" vs. 41% for Trump. When Trump made a very clear and strong statement in support of PB and placing himself firmly in the corner with white supremacy, 41% still think Trump won. That tells you a whole lot about his base and the current state of this country. It also matches the pre-debate polls and supports what I was saying that there is no debate "winning" when in this particular election all voters were firmly decided months ago.

[cubby]

That was a shitshow.

Yeah - Trump just can't shut up, no matter what. No civility whatsoever. Biden didn't really help. Wallace deserves a medal for keeping it as on track as he did - which wasn't much.

I bet the next moderators are already drinking.