Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Felya]

Trump was in "command of the conversation" the way a rabid hyena would be in charge of the conversation, doesn't mean you make it president.

That’s not what in charge of the conversation means... if that was the case, commanding the conversation would be measured in decibels.

[Breccia]

This falls on the shoulders of Chris Wallace

I hate to say it, but it also falls on Biden's shoulders as well. Biden tried not to stoop to Trump's level, but did not always succeed. It would have been a gamble to 100% adhere to the rules and call upon Wallace to enforce them, and Biden went with what he thought was a safer bet of splitting the difference. Trump, of course, had this that as his plan the whole time -- he cannot run on his record, so instead he shouted dozens of misleading or false statements to put Biden off-balance.

But I do agree -- Biden may have played Trump's game, but he still won. Not once did Trump turn to the camera and address the American people directly, as Biden did on multiple occasions.

He secured his base, which was already securr

I'm not sure that's 100% true. Trump has been playing to his base because he's worried he'll lose it. For example, they might suddenly remember they're unemployed and have no insurance. Hence the plan to magically find health care that covers better for less money, just like he said in 2016, and it never happened. Biden called him out on it.

Biden isn't exactly eloquent or gentlemanly either.

How many times has Biden committed adultery?

Oh, and I found yet one more not-yet-covered fact check. Trump says he brought back Big Ten football. This article from before the debates says he was no more involved than any other fan.

[Trunksee]

Trump won the debate and heres why. Did his base and anyone who voted for him last time expect anything less than this? No. He did exactly as expected and more than likely what most wanted to see. Trump called him out on a few things that Biden couldnt answer for or deflected. Green new deal... his website says he supports it and he said he didnt. Medicare for all... avoided the question and basically said we will expand obamacare. He had no answer when Trump said he and his friends if they raise taxes will just leave what will they do then. Biden no answer again. Trump hit him on the campaign spying and Biden looked like a deer in head lights. Look if you were a former Trump voter who like me voted for an asshole to take down the establishment croanies who have been there for over 40 years you got what you expected. Look if you didnt know this was Trump and this entertaining beat down was what to expect then you have been under a rock for the last 4 years. All his supporters and many independents expected this. If you want a soft well spoken president then you were never going to vote for trump anyway

[Felya]

Anyone who thinks Trump was a 'clear winner in terms of style' thinks that teenagers are secret geniuses during their rebellion phase.

Those are the same people trying to buy PS5 preorders, for 750 dollars...

[Thekri]

Trump repeated every single post ghost made in this thread, over the last couple of months. From implying Harris runs the show to the military quote that he admitted was misrepresented... but, eye for an eye, so it’s fair for Trump to lie... He was Trump’s target audience...

Which is also Trump's greatest weakness. He plays to his base all the time, and never tries to expand it. Normal politicians don't lean that hard into their base, because it is assumed their base will vote for them, and they want to grab other voters. Trump just picks his loudest supporters and focuses on whipping them into a frenzy. This is not a good strategy for winning democratic elections, but Trump doesn't seem to be planning on winning a democratic election.

[Ivanstone]

But Biden did well I think, And Trump failed to express himself well enough on some topics. Both candidates interrupted each other and Trump was the worse about that.

Overall, it was a draw and the winner or loser is going to depend on who you ask.

Trump lost the debate before it even started. He has a terrible record that's difficult to defend and he was never going to be able do it.

And then he went out and failed. He got to say a lot of words though!

[Breccia]

My take on the debate

Wait, you're going with "Trump threw the bigger tantrum so he wins?"

Also, adding your name to the next 24-hour challenge. If you're going to back Trump, you're going to have to answer for his words and actions.

[Felya]

Medicare for all... avoided the question and basically said we will expand obamacare.

Hilarious... Hey... are you on stand bye? You plan to watch other people vote? Please note, that’s illegal... if you get kicked out of voting places or even arrested while watching other people vote, it’s not because you are a Trump supporter, but because you are breaking the law.

[DingDongKing]

Those are the same people trying to buy PS5 preorders, for 750 dollars...

Oi, that's a deep cut. I ordered a PS5. That said, I'm not paying $750. Got the disc version for £449. Paid £5 deposit.

[Ghostpanther]

The fact that he and you think Trump was ANYWHERE CLOSE to being the winner, means you didn't watch the fucking debates.

I did not say he was the winner overall. I do not think there was a winner when it comes to making anyone change their vote.

Trump failed to make it clear his stance on some topics. But this question about white supremacists, he already has condemned it, officially.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/tr...-supremacists/

Two days later, on Aug. 14, 2017, Trump issued a statement from the White House, and referred to “KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”

"Trump, Aug. 14, 2017: As I said on Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America.

And as I have said many times before: No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.

Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.

We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our Creator. We are equal under the law. And we are equal under our Constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America."

He has a habit of chasing rabbits when asked a question and he did that when asked about the subject.

[Monster Hunter]

I’d just like to point out, that this debate has resulted on an influx of people who are not regulars, posting here... and it seems like good people... Sorry to use you as an example, but I think this debate might have got some enthusiasm on the Biden side... even if only because of Trump “controlling the room”...

Problem is most of us poping in aren't American and we have only popped in to express how much of an utter shit show that was and how absolutely and utterly disappointed we are in America.

I'm disgusted, I'm shocked, I'm appalled, I still can't belove what I witnessed and that it was a debate conducted by the leaders of the free world, the world super power, the champions of democracy..... honestly sickens me.

And im not just saying that, watching it made me physically feel sick, it made me physically feel the effects of anger towards a whole other nation, it made me feel towards america how I felt towards Russia when they attempted to assassinate some one in our territory, only it wasn't an insult to my nation, that debate was an insult to the whole western democratic world.

[Felya]

Wait, you're going with "Trump threw the bigger tantrum so he wins?"

Also, adding your name to the next 24-hour challenge. If you're going to back Trump, you're going to have to answer for his words and actions.

For someone who has most of the forum on ignore, him liking Trump’s tact of screaming nonsense, is strange... I bet if Trump did that on this forum, while disagreeing with him... he would be on ignore before another post is even made...

[szechuan]

Green new deal... his website says he supports it and he said he didnt.

he doesn't, if you read it, he clearly means he supports the framework.

Medicare for all... avoided the question and basically said we will expand obamacare.

He didn't avoid the question, Don't know why you're surprised that Biden was always for Obamacare.

He had no answer when Trump said he and his friends if they raise taxes will just leave what will they do then. Biden no answer again.

Because Trump kept on interrupting and talking over people with Random accusations.

What about Trumps Taxes?

Trump hit him on the campaign spying and Biden looked like a deer in head lights. Look if you were a former Trump voter who like me voted for an asshole to take down the establishment croanies who have been there for over 40 years you got what you expected.

You're a former Trump voter?

All his supporters and many independents expected this.

Expected that Trump is a deplorable racist?

[Felya]

And im not just saying that, watching it made me physically feel sick, it made me physically feel the effects of anger towards a whole other nation, it made me feel towards america how I felt towards Russia when they attempted to assassinate some one in our territory, only it wasn't an insult to my nation, that debate was an insult to the whole western democratic world.

So... nothing different from a normal day?

[Breccia]

Another fact check -- Biden this time.

Our Ruling

Biden said, "We have a higher deficit with China now than we did before."

The most inclusive measurement, for goods and services, shows that the U.S. trade deficit with China was smaller under Trump in 2019, the most recent full year, than it was in any of the final three years of the Obama administration.

Looking only at goods shows the trade deficit was generally higher under Trump than it was in the Obama years, but it declined in 2019 to around the level as the final year of the Obama administration.

We rate the statement Mostly False.

Biden was likely emboldened to say that because last month was the biggest gap we've ever had. If he'd been more specific, he wouldn't have been caught saying something that wasn't true. Or, he could have said "the trade gap shrunk because of the trade war, neither side was buying anything" which is true. Or, he could have said "it grew in 2017, it grew in 2018" which is true. Trump's losing the trade war, Biden could have found a way to make that point that was objectively true.

He didn't. Shame.

[Felya]

Trump failed to make it clear on some topics. But this question about white supremacists, he already has condemned it, officially.

Than why did he tell them to stand bye during the debates? Why did he tell them to watch other people vote?

Here is a shocker... Trump lied... the proof came yesterday... during the debates you think he won in respect to controlling the room.

[Ghostpanther]

Trump won the debate and heres why. Did his base and anyone who voted for him last time expect anything less than this? No. He did exactly as expected and more than likely what most wanted to see. Trump called him out on a few things that Biden couldnt answer for or deflected. Green new deal... his website says he supports it and he said he didnt. Medicare for all... avoided the question and basically said we will expand obamacare. He had no answer when Trump said he and his friends if they raise taxes will just leave what will they do then. Biden no answer again. Trump hit him on the campaign spying and Biden looked like a deer in head lights. Look if you were a former Trump voter who like me voted for an asshole to take down the establishment croanies who have been there for over 40 years you got what you expected. Look if you didnt know this was Trump and this entertaining beat down was what to expect then you have been under a rock for the last 4 years. All his supporters and many independents expected this. If you want a soft well spoken president then you were never going to vote for trump anyway

Very well said. There are things about Trump I do not like. But I am not voting for his personality, as I have posted before.

[DingDongKing]

-snip-

No, man. You don't get it. The OP is saying Biden should've totally wasted time addressing bogus conspiracy theories that Trump and his support based was peddling. Because then it would've proven that Biden is capable of fact checking Trump, since that's his job. (sarcasm)

Also, anyone claiming that Trump still denounces white supremacists because he did 3 years ago, is lying through their teeth.

Since that denouncement, he's spent 3 years stoking the fires of white nationalism at every turn. Biden nailed him again and again. Dogwhistling.

I was so god damned proud of Biden when he kept hitting that point home. Dog-fucking-whistling. Because Trump's supporters love the racism.

[downnola]

Why are you amazed, we've had bad faith "progressives" spreading agitprop about anyone who isn't Bernie or Tulsi for months now.

That's true, but I was thinking about the mindless impulse people have to appear impartial by shitting on both of the candidates during that media circus of a debate. It's like people are too cowardly to just admit on Facebook or Twitter that Trump acted like a child in need of a nap, and that the reason it was such a train wreck is entirely on him.

You're right though, I shouldn't be amazed at all.

[Breccia]

him liking Trump’s tact of screaming nonsense, is strange

Not really. Trump supporters can't exactly claim they like Trump for his diplomatic or tactful responses.

And for the record, I disagree strongly with that quoted FOX News opinion. Trump spent the entire night controlling the mic, but he was spewing misleading statements and falsehoods. I would win Monopoly all the time if I could just ignore the rules and take money from the bank. By FOX News and therefore @Ghostpanther logic Trump should have blown an air horn into the mic for all 90 minutes.